NYT: At Lincoln Memorial, a Call for Religious Rebirth (Crowd Estimate)

“Many different religions consider themselves to be the “one true religion” or the “universal” church or otherwise divinely inspired as being superior to others.”
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True, and Islam insists that it is the only true religion and entitled to slaughter anyone who disagrees. I find it amazing that the former “Cat Stevens” whom I consider an amazing musical talent described himself as “shopping for a religion” before converting to Islam and changing his last name to Islam! How could someone who made such a great recording of “Morning Has Broken” a song often sung in Christian churches, “shop” for a religion and come up with Islam? It is mind boggling.

And don't think it's wasted, just because Colofornian in #134 tries to twist your words and change what you said.

Who's "twisting?" They are as plain as day. Loveliberty2 said:

Every moment wasted on quibbling about other people's personal beliefs and judging their souls is neglecting the task at hand.

So. Who just "wasted" moments "quibbling" about what others have said religiously on this thread? Why Loveliberty2 did! (Well, at least he/she did by their own standard)

It's real simple, Sam. When you make a comment about "religious" things or comment upon the "personal beliefs" of others -- including commenting upon the "personal beliefs" of other FReepers, you are commenting religiously.

If somebody thinks religious distinctions should be made, that's their religious "personal beliefs." If Loveliberty, or you, don't think the vital differences are to be stressed, well, that, too, is a stated religious "personal belief."

What's always funny on these threads is the FReepers who pipe up, and like the liberals on our college campuses, wind up appealing to "tolerance." They will come on and defend a cultist vantage point as sacro-sanct. "Don't pick on this or that cultist's viewpoint. Because we like a lot of what he has to say about the socio-political environment." And their appeal is to "tolerance" -- that we need to "tolerate" religious views we disagree with. And as they state that, they pull out their verbal paddle of discipline, assume the supposed "higher ground," and we surely note, yes, how everso "tolerant" of you to assume the "high road of tolerance."

Yet.

If these folks are indeed so "tolerant."

And if we're supposed to "tolerate" religious views (like Beck's) that we disagree with...if Beck's views are so "sacro-sanct"...
Then tell us, Sam. Tell us, Loveliberty. Why don't you seem to be able to "tolerate" my religious views? Why you so quick to take umbrage with them if "tolerance" is the key byword? Why don't you seem to be able to "tolerate" Tennessee Nana's views? Or Elsie's views?

Bottom line: If you are going to make some subtle appeals to "tolerance," then guess what? You need to practice it as well. Otherwise, what are we to do? Believe what you say -- that we should "tolerate" Beck's religious beliefs? Or are we to believe what you practice -- your hostile intolerance of our personal beliefs about faith?

You wanna explain why your imposition of "tolerance" is a one-way street? (Either you Sam, or you, Loveliberty). You wanna explain, Loveliberty, why it's OK for you to assume a role of "Grand Quibbler?" about what others have stated on this site? But, if you dare perceive anybody else "quibbling," then they get a lecture from you followed up by an even grander lecture by the "Grand Accuser" Samtheman?

And, please, Sam, pour even more vitriol on your accusations in your next post...why, that only makes it even clearer to others that the supposed "tolerant crowd" isn't as "tolerant" as the preachy words of "tolerance" they disseminate.

It's actually what's so sad. Because so many so-called "conservatives" have bought into the liberal lexicon of "tolerance."

Please tell me your source where God says he will judge all based on religious affiliation.

They chose not to focus on religious differences, but on the things we have in common. I think we can learn something from them.

I agree. There is a vocal minority who attempt to divide and destroy the conservative movement. Once the division is complete the occupation will have full control of our lives. To these people it should be obvious that Satan lives and breaths within in them.

Their self-rightous and pious pronouncements are nothing more than a transparent cover.

When did I say I didn’t tolerate your religious views? I don’t care what they are and I don’t care what Beck’s are.

I know Beck is a strong conservative because of everything else he has done, outside of his “religious views”.

I assume you are a conservative because you’re here in FR, but I don’t think you’re a very intelligent conservative. Actually, I don’t think you are intelligent at all. You’ll hand the country over to jihadists rather than lend a hand in the fight against them, if it means having to work with a group of people that includes a few Mormons.

That’s not intelligent. That’s stupid. Because I know ONE group who will NOT tolerate your religion. And that group is NOT the group that was gathering in to hear Beck and Palin yesterday. It was the ENEMY. The enemy who you are blind to. The enemy who you are, stupidly, siding with.

You are stupid. There is no doubt about that.

They will take your bible, burn it, shove the ashes down your throat, make you swallow it dry, and when they do that you know what you might be thinking: samtheman said I was stupid, and you know what, he was right!

***So I rather doubt that Beck is aware of the details of the LDS view.***

I would say that one’s faith is the most important component of their life. It shapes their world view. Since Beck trots out his Mormonism I will have to say he knows what he is talking about; if he doesn’t why should I trust anything else he says?

Please tell me your source where God says he will judge all based on religious affiliation.

Well, I'm glad you asked me where my source is for whatever conclusions I have. That's a good start, anyway...which is, btw, why I wanted to start at that point with you.

I notice you didn't answer my Q; you simply asked a Q you thought I was asking of you...but if you relook at my Q, I didn't narrow it down to the conclusion you just drew.

IOW, I wasn't simply contending vs. this Q of yours: that God judges, or doesn't judge, based upon "religious affiliation." (That's your assumption operating again -- just like the assumption of your statement when you said, "We are all God's." Uh, guess what? No, we're not)

Now that's not simply my conclusion. That was Jesus Christ's.

Here, I'll show you what I mean when Jesus spoke to the Pharisees...'cause in part, it actually also confirms what you said earlier [the part about God judging us individually based upon what we've done or haven't done...see vv. 39-41]:

37I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father."

39"Abraham is our father," they answered.

"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does." "We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (Jesus Christ, John 8:37-44)

So, when you concluded that "We are all God's" -- you were sharply disagreeing with Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Jesus said some religious legalists (and I can think of no greater religious legalists of our day than temple Mormons) that they were of a different father. You have every right to disagree with Jesus. We do live in a Free Republic, after all. But I just wanted to know your source in case your authority came from a place higher than your own opinion.

Allow me to clarify a few other things:
According to the Bible...
#1 God indeed judges us not only on what we do or don't do, both works & sin-wise,
#2 and He indeed judges us "individually"...
Yet simultaneously and paradoxically He will also...
#3 not judge some individuals on the basis of their sin...
and #4 He will also judge us by groups we have lived in....

Now for individualistic Americans, #4 comes actually as a "shocker." Yet, again, my "source" is Jesus Christ, Himself:

10But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say, 11'Even the dust of your town that sticks to our feet we wipe off against you. Yet be sure of this: The kingdom of God is near.' 12I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town. 13"Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14But it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. 15And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. (Jesus in Luke 10:10-15)

Sodom, Korazin, Bethsaida, Tyre, Sidon, and Capernaum...these weren't individuals...these were communities. Jesus was saying God will judge communities, too. So, in some way, God will judge us corporately. At least by communities. Perhaps by religious communities, too. By denomination? Possibly. Can't definitely say one way or the other...but Jesus seems to leave the door open in Luke 10. By country? Could be. Individually, too? Yes, definitely! Luke 10:10-15 removes any doubt that God exercises corporate judgment.

Finally, why did I say in #3 above that God will "NOT judge SOME individuals on the basis of their sin"???

It's simple: These are those who trusted in Jesus Christ to take their sin away and absorb it on the cross, and entered into a relationship with Jesus before they died (John 17:3).

Our sins? He paid for it. By His blood. Those individual sins of commission and omission I have committed -- and that sin nature I inherited at birth -- that's His. God the Father judged that sin on the cross. He showed how horrific it was by the lengths He took to "own" it and "defeat" it...sending His Son to wear diapers...and wear what was tantamount to a diaper in dying for on the cross.

If I believe my sin was judged on the cross, God as Judge doesn't exercise "double jeopardy." Jesus took what I deserved: capital punishment. He paid my sentence. It's done with.

God will still individually judge me for my works -- what I did and didn't do. Biblical passages like 1 Cor. 3:8-14 makes that quite clear. But my works don't get me into heaven. Jesus Christ is the lone Way into. Trusting Him for that salvation. (John 14:6; Ephesians 2:8-9).

How many times have you read the Book of Mormon?

A Million Man March!!!

How many times have you read The Christian Bible ???

You are gone-dhis in my book. The lot of you.

??

Iknow, I know, I forgot to size the last one.

Kind of reminds me of Austin Powers “There’s wee, not so wee and Friggin huge!!!”

I love how people think that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (the Mormons) is not a Christian church. it shows you know very little about the religion.

Well then; let's get them up to speed!!

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

And, continuing thru the years, the high ranking leaders of that Organization have done the same!

Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).

Only just lately have the MORMONs seem to WANT be called Christians now.

Can't find ANYTHING in their doctrine that has changed to warrent this attitude shift; however.

I know dozens and they all think and consider themselves to be Christians.

Indeed they do; but NONE of the 'Chrsitian' churches of the world consider them so!

Their self-rightous and pious pronouncements are nothing more than a transparent cover. (he concluded very self-righteously and quite piously, IMA)

There. Feel better now that you climbed your lofty hill, looked down upon others, and spouted out about how "pious" they are?

There is a vocal minority who attempt to divide and destroy the conservative movement. Once the division is complete...

I can't believe all the assumptions I see fully operative.

So let me get this straight: You can't tolerate up to a dozen or more FREEPERS who state disagreements they have with the Mormon belief system. Some may state this occasionally. Some weekly. Add 'em all up, and their comments wouldn't equal the Journal of Discourses put out by the Mormon church -- a collection of their spoken messages.

But, and perhaps you can prove me wrong on this, but you've tolerated what the Mormon church has said about all Catholics, all Protestants, all Orthodox for these past 180 years?

They put these comments into over 100 languages. These comments are online for 24/7 consumption. They are placed in Lds church curricula; Lds publishing houses; two-a-year annual conferences they have done. They have literally sent out over 1 million missionaries since 1830.

I won't even give you the lengthy long list of what they have called us. For brevity sake, just know that Mormons accuse Christians the same as Muslims do. Muslims call Christians "infidels"; Mormons? They call ALL of us "apostates."

Their most basic "missionary" message spread by their 52,000 worldwide missionaries is that a complete apostasy was ensued by their restoration. Joseph Smith's first vision was that 100% of Christian creeds were an "abomination" to their god; and that 100% of our professing believers were "corrupt."

Now since the Mormon church has been saying this about us for 180 years, on what grounds do you conclude we are completely "unified?" And even if you recognize that we're not unified, why is it that the Mormon church can send 52,000 missionaries out accusing us of being apostates, and they can put all of this slander out 24/7 online, by their publishing houses, etc...and yet, where are your accusations of the Mormon church that it is attempting to "divide and destroy" the conservative movement?

Joseph Smith practiced scorched earth religio-politics and tried to hold a mass funeral for Christianity. He tried to say we were dead & buried. So Smith, and then the next generation, who enshrined his words as "scripture" (1870s) -- they weren't guilty of attempting to "divide and destroy" the 19th century conservative movement? And what about contemporary Mormons who likewise conclude we are corrupt and part of a false apostate church? Are they in your Kum-ba-yah camp?

Tell ya what, if we sing from the Mormon hymnal with Beck leading your new church choir, then the lyrical lines might be,
"Kum ba yah, My Lord, all the Christian sects are apostates...
"Kum ba yah, My Lord, all their creeds are an abomination...
"Kum ba yah, My Lord, all their professors are corrupt.
"Oh, Lord, Kum ba yah."

I challenge you. Use your Google and do some online learnin': put in "Joseph Smith" and the word "history" and the phrase "Pearl of Great Price." Then scroll down and read verses 18-20 about what Mormons believe about us.

And then you need to ask yourself, "Boy. Why haven't I sent an e-mail off to Salt Lake City, asking the Mormon church why they've been trying to divide America for 180 years?"

LOL.

I’m stuck out here on dial up, so I started loading the page, read War and Peace and the Encyclopedia Britannica and came back and enjoyed the pictures ....

The theological debates should not detract from a non-denominational, non-political rally dedicated to American values.

Indeed!

If the Flying Spaghetti Monsters followers are CONSERVATIVES; let them in the tent!

(BUT...

If those FSM followers EVER start to claim they are CHRISTIAN; then, by GOD, some FUR is going to fly!)

People like you should worry about the atheists who want to remove GOD from every part of this country and lay off people like Beck who ~~is trying to live a good life with his wife and kids...~~ has chosen to join a religious organization that highjacked Christian sounding words to describe itself.

THere’s nothing that Beck said that can’t be embraced by all believers in God. God often uses people in spite of themselves to get His messaasge out. Truth has but IOe source.

No Mormon here, but I would much prefer to be surrounded by Mormons than muslims or liberals or nobama supporters.

Uh...

Would you care to be in the prescense of CHRISTIANS at all?