Army Calls ‘Birther’ Doc’s Bluff

Military.com ^ | April 9, 2010 | Bryant Jordan

[EveningStar]

It's guts ball time for an Army surgeon who has vowed not to deploy to Afghanistan with his unit unless President Obama provides evidence that he's a "natural born" citizen of the United States.

In response to previously published statements by Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin, the Army presented an official letter of counseling that directs him to report to Fort Campbell, Ky., on April 12 to begin deployment preparations with his unit.

[El Gato]

Obama is a US citizen, born of an American mother on US soil, and raised as an American.

Except for those formattive years in Indonesia, with an Indonesian stepfather who took him to the Mosque on a regular basis.

And NO MILITARY COURT is going to rule on the validity of an election for President!

No one will be asking them to rule on the validity of the election, but rather of eligibility of the winner of that election. Elections, and nose counting, do not overule the Constitution.

[El Gato]

Second of all, to get to the Federal Court system, Lt Col Lakin needs injury to derive legal Standing. And that's what the “MILITARY COURT” will give him ;)

Unless they should determine him innocent because the order was illegal.

Maybe not likely, but with a jury or the non JAG members of a Court, you never can completely predict what might happen.

[BP2]

Wonder what prompted the proposal of that constitutional amendmendment by Congressman Foster back in 1798, which would have required all Senators and Representatives to be natural born citizens (unless they were citizens at the founding in 1776). Could there have been Senators or Representatives whose loyalty to the new country was under suspicion? (1798, during the Adams administration, was in a period in which such suspicions were common, and led to the passage of the Alien and Sedition Acts.)

Yes, immigration was a double-edged sword, then as it now.

John Adams accompanied Benjamin Franklin in their travels to England and France in the 1770s before becoming the first US ambassador to England in 1780. Adams had a keen understanding of how foreign powers might attempt to infiltrate the United States to gain control.

Although the Framers wanted (and needed) immigrants to help grow the new Republic, they also were concerned that the King (or other nations) would send infiltrators loyal to a Crown into America's government. In between 1776 and the Constitution's ratification by all 13 states in 1789, monarchs like Prince Henry of Prussia and the Bishop of Osnaburgh (2nd son of George III), tried to “invite themselves” to become America's new king. So the Framers' concerns were VERY valid.

Add to it an undeclared naval war between the US and France (who helped liberate the US in the Revolutionary War) from 1798 to 1800, and what may be seen today as mild xenophobia was a GENUINE threat to the sovereignty of the United States ... borne out in part when the Brits hired willing American Indian mercenaries, in England's attempt to regain control of the US in the War of 1812 (as done also in the 1780s).

[BP2]

Yes, immigration was a double-edged sword, then as it IS now.

[Faith]

Thanks, BP2. I always appreciate your research.

[William Tell]

Mr Rogers said: "If the LTC doesn’t agree, he should have put in his papers when it became obvious Obama was going to be installed as President. "

You seem to be confusing a couple of facts.

The first fact is whether or not Obama is a natural-born citizen. That is either true or false.

The second fact is that the Constitution requires that the President be a natural-born citizen. That fact is true.

I certainly don't think that our Founders would have included that requirement without every expectation that it was an enforceable requirement.

The government power to hide public records such as those that would establish the details of Obama's birth is of relatively recent origin. Such power has been justified on the basis of preventing identity theft, perhaps among other reasons. None of these reasons justify the withholding of ANY information about the person claiming the office of President and Commander-in-Chief.

I don't know all of the relevant details of Obama's birth. I have a right to know. The Constitution is not subject to majority rule. The requirements for eligibility for the Presidency cannot be eliminated without amending the Constitution.

[BP2]

I don't know all of the relevant details of Obama's birth. I have a right to know.

Oh, come on WT. < /sarc>

You and the rest of the nation had an ENTIRE week to inspect the COLB on your computer monitor before the August 2008 DNC Convention ... after the highly-credible Chicago Obama Campaign office delivered Obama's so-called "birth certificate" to those hand-picked Forensics Experts at Fact Check on August 21. < /sarc>

We ALL know it's utterly IMPOSSIBLE to forge a birth certificate. < /sarc>

The truth about Obama's birth certificate (FactCheck.org)
–by Jess Henig, with Joe Miller

Jess Henig has an M.A. in English Literature.
Joe Miller has a Ph. D. in Political Philosophy.

[OafOfOffice]

You missed your meds again today? Does the mental ward know you broke into the computer room?

[parsifal]

Well, I am enjoying watching all this insanity. People thanking other people for pouring manure all them.

parsy, who pities the gullible

[Mr Rogers]

Feel free to stuff your knee pads where your noggin is - deep in your rear.

The intent of the ‘natural born citizen’ phrase was, if you read folks who ratified the Constitution, to prevent someone from Europe moving here, becoming a citizen, and then running for President. It was to prevent someone whose natural loyalty might lie elsewhere from taking office.

It has since then been defined by Congress.

Obama was born in the US, with a US citizen for his mother. To argue having a Kenyan father who abandoned him means his primary loyalty moved to Kenya is stupid. To argue that a presidential election - and yes, the question WAS raised during the election - should be overturned because Obama’s father was Kenyan - IF Obama Sr WAS Barry’s father, is also stupid. No court in the land would consider it for a moment.

“Second of all, to get to the Federal Court system, Lt Col Lakin needs injury to derive legal Standing. And that’s what the “MILITARY COURT” will give him ;)”

Not a chance in hell. The only thing the military court will look at is “Has the LTC disobeyed a lawful order?” And the civilian court is not going to overturn a conviction based on the idea that Obama isn’t really President.

Y’all live in fantasy land. You’d have better odds if you prayed that God would smite Obama with an asteroid.

“No one will be asking them to rule on the validity of the election, but rather of eligibility of the winner of that election.”

No military court will consider investigating or ruling on that issue. Neither will any other court. Obama won the election. By a comfortable margin. The courts would rule that the people had ample opportunity to investigate Obama and decide for themselves if he qualified - and they said yes.

At best, they would defer to Congress. And no, Congress isn’t going to overturn the election either.

Obama was born in Hawaii. His mother was an American. Fantasizing that he was born in Kenya, and that a court will overturn the election based on his really being a Kenyan is STUPID!

[parsifal]

Well, I am enjoying watching all this insanity. People thanking other people for pouring manure all over them.

parsy, who pities the gullible

(Note: dang keyboard! I know I typed [over])

[OafOfOffice]

An officer refusing to obey GWB in 2001 would have been full of crap. So is this one.

Really? Someone who served his country for 18 years is full of crap? Obama has never served anyone but his ego, illegal drugs,Islam and Chicago corruption.

All obama has to do is end this with a showing of his birth certificate. There will be more willing to stand up and ask for a simple document we all have to show to live in the United States as citizens. Obama is not above the law. Rules are as much for him as they are for us.

[OafOfOffice]

You have no friends at all? I can understand that with your personality. People don’t like game players or people who have sold their souls for money.

For the life of me I don’t understand why Obama’s people would pay someone as looney as you to support their agenda. You could make the most liberal go conservative instantly. You make Obama look worse than anyone here could.

[Mr Rogers]

Dude, I spent 25 years in the military. I’ve met LOTS of officers with 18+ years in who were full of crap.

[OafOfOffice]

Well, I am enjoying watching all this insanity. People thanking other people for pouring manure all them.

You misunderstood. They said you are a pile of it.

[Mr Rogers]

“Most official references list Arthur as having been born in Fairfield in Franklin County, Vermont on October 5, 1829. However, some time in the 1870s Arthur changed it to 1830 to make himself seem a year younger.[2]:5[5] His father had initially migrated to Dunham, Lower Canada, where he and his wife at one point owned a farm about 15 miles (24 km) north of the U.S. border.[2]:4 There has long been speculation that the future president was actually born in Canada and that the family moved to Fairfield later. If Arthur had been born in Canada, some believe that he would not have been a natural-born citizen (interpreting the law to mean that to be a natural-born citizen one must be born on U.S. territory) and would thus have been constitutionally ineligible to serve as vice president or president. During the 1880 U.S. presidential election a New York attorney, Arthur P. Hinman, was hired to explore rumors of Arthur’s foreign birth. Hinman alleged that Arthur was born in Ireland and did not come to the United States until he was fourteen years old. When that story failed to take root Hinman came forth with a new story that Arthur was born in Canada. This claim also fell on deaf ears.[2]:202–203 In any case, Arthur’s father was not naturalized until some years after his birth, resulting in Arthur having dual citizenship, a fact he later covered up.[6]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester_A._Arthur

” * The eligibility of Charles Evans Hughes (1862–1948) was questioned in the Chicago Legal News during the U.S. presidential election of 1916, in which Evans was narrowly defeated by Woodrow Wilson. In an article written by Breckinridge Long, Hughes was claimed to be ineligible because his father had not yet naturalized at the time of his birth and was still a British citizen. Observing that Hughes, although born in the United States, was also a British subject and therefore “enjoy[ed] a dual nationality and owe[d] a double allegiance”, Long argued that a native born citizen was not natural born without a unity of U.S. citizenship and allegiance and stated: “Now if, by any possible construction, a person at the instant of birth, and for any period of time thereafter, owes, or may owe, allegiance to any sovereign but the United States, he is not a ‘natural born’ citizen of the United States.”[40] However there is no indication that Long’s article was taken seriously or had any impact on the election.”

[parsifal]

The only game playing going on is by some folks who are “playing” lawyer. Good Lord, second graders could do a better job. The really hilarious part is when these people think somebody somewhere is “sweating bullets.”

No. No one is sweating bullets. More likely they are having stomach cramps from laughing so hard. Me laughing that hard probably shouldn’t concern you. The fact that Obama and crew are laughing that hard should concern you.

parsy, who notes that Legend of the Seeker just came on. . .

[OafOfOffice]

So you believe a commander in chief can be anyone from any country? You believe he can have a allegiance to hamas possibly and lead you into war? Do you not see that some of our military are in harm’s way with obama as commander in chief? Just the ROE where they cannot defend themselves if civilians are around is killing our men and women. Have you listened to the 3 men who had to sit and wait to be killed because their commanders could not send in air power?

I am firm believer that the military cannot force Obama to prove himself. But how can you defend a POTUS you have no clue who he is and who would throw this solider to the wolves instead of showing a simple document? What of the other soldier where he was released from his orders only to have his job at the DOD taken immediately?

What we know of Obama is nothing. You said his mother was American born. There is no such proof anywhere except Obama said so. You said there is proof he was born here? Where? Can I go tomorrow for my first passport and when asked for my BC, say, “oh,look at the newspaper it says I was born here?” Or “here look at my BC online on my website?”

Journalists were not allowed to speak to his grandmother, here or in Kenya. We know nothing about him. But we have speeches, articles, interviews of his radical past. We have more evidence Obama despises America than we have about his NBC.

We virtually could have a foreign born POTUS, with two foreign parents, whose allegiance is to Islam. Not to America. You would send your fellow military men and women into battle under that?

[OafOfOffice]

The laughter is Obama asking “where in the hell did you find this parsi?” “I know the bottom of barrell is all we have but did you need the scum too?”

[Non-Sequitur]

If the de facto president were ruled ineligible, that would mean a President had never qualified.

Why? The Electoral College votes on both president and vice-president. Even if Obama was found to be ineligible that doesn't mean Biden was.