Posted on 08/04/2009 12:25:56 PM PDT by Hillary'sMoralVoid
What I find so amazing about the "birther bashers" (or "afterbirthers" as I call them) is that they have so little appreciation for the complexity of Obama's citizenship dilemma. They also do not appreciate the trap doors that exist at various points in his life regarding adoption and immigration between countries where he resided. Most of all, though, they don't understand the basic terms that they banter about.
In short, Obama's life path is fraught with potentially disqualifying conditions for the office he holds. As a constitutional law instructor, perhaps no one understands these conditions like he does, and that explains his intransigence in releasing anything that might expose him to constitutional challenge.
Let me just take a stab at a few terms that the 'afterbirthers" throw around like they are interchangeable.
American citizen - this only means that at least one of the birth parents was an American and that the indivicual was naturalized, if not born in the US. These alo include immigrants who have been naturalized citizens. You can be considered an American citizen if you have dual citizenship with another country. To scream that Obama is an American citizen, as many afterbirthers do, proves NOTHING avout his right to be president. Even Syrian-born Tony Rezko is an American citizen.
Native Born Citizen - this means that an individual, in addition to having at least one parent who is an American citizen and you were born on US soil (including territories and American bases). Although this term is thrown around by afterbirthers, this still does not meet the definition of a Natural Born Citizen.
Natural Born Citizen - this is an individual born of two American parents, whether the parents were native born or were foreign born and then naturalized. I believe that Bobby Jindal's parents were not native born, but he would be qualified for president because both parents were American citizens through the naturalization process.
The afterbirthers scream that there were seven presidents born that had at least one foreign parent like Obama. That is true, but in every case, the foreign parent was naturalized, with the exception of Chester Arthur. His father was Irish and became a Canadian citizen, never a naturalized US citizen. He obviously realized he was not qualified for office because he actually burned some of his personal records to keep anyone from finding out. A familiar pattern of behavior?
The fact is, we don't need to go to Kenya to disprove Obama's eligibility. It is hidden in plain sight. He is not a Natural Born Citizen due to to his Kenyan father. The Supreme Court simply has to take on this issue to declare that the meaning of the term has never changed. Constitutional scholars have been eerily silent on this issue, but in the research I've done, I can find no other interpretation.
As mentioned earlier, there is a plethora of reasons why Obama might otherwise be unqualified should the Supreme Court not decide against his natural born status, but that is the most logical starting point.
Thoughts, additions, corrections welcome.
Your definitions are all wrong.
“Native born citizen is not a legally defined citizenship as far as I can tell”
Nor is natural born citizen, technically. But that doesn’t stop Birthers, as much as anti-Birthers, to define it on their own.
They aren't even different "levels". You are a citizen or you aren't. The difference is how citizenship is obtained.
If you obtained it by right of birth, because you were born in the US or were born to a citizen, then you were a "natural born" citizen.
If you obtained citizenship later in life through the immigration laws then you were "naturalized".
A naturalized citizen is not eligible to be President.
Please englighten me!
What about the “Anchor” babies; those born of a foreign national mother on American soil?
American citizens, not natural born.
By your own definition, HMV, Anchor Babies are not even citizens because neither parent is a citizen. But it is a fact that anchor babies are indeed citizens, so your definitions are flawed.
Not to mention that the Constitution only lists 2 classes of citizen, natural born and naturalized. So unless you can provide some other legal source for three classifications, I'll take the Constitution over your opinion any day.
"American citizen - this only means that at least one of the birth parents was an American and that the indivicual was naturalized, if not born in the US. These alo include immigrants who have been naturalized citizens. You can be considered an American citizen if you have dual citizenship with another country... "
It isn't if one parent was a citizen AND you were naturalized. It's one or the other, or you were born here. In any case, however it happened, you are a citizen or you aren't.
"Native Born Citizen - this means that an individual, in addition to having at least one parent who is an American citizen and you were born on US soil (including territories and American bases)."
Again, not both. If you were born here you are a citizen, regardless of whether your parents were. That's the law.
"Natural Born Citizen - this is an individual born of two American parents, whether the parents were native born or were foreign born and then naturalized..."
The citizenship of the parents does not matter. What matters is whether you are a citizen by birth. That can happen because one of your parents is a citizen, or because you are born here. If you were a citizen at birth then you are a "natural born citizen".
Law of nations says both parents must be citizens, period.
Law of nations is the guiding light for this subject.
It is what the framers used to draw up the consitution!
“Obama’s eligibility to be President is probably the most important constitutional issue of our time....”
I fully agree with that statement, yet notice how mute the Congress and SCOTUS are about this matter. It appears that they KNOW that there is something rotten in this whole affair but are unwilling to take action.”
Phillip Berg’s original lawsuit filed on Aug 22, 2008 was clear in stating that if the SC and the country in general didn’t solve this problem before Nov elections, it could lead to a constitutional crisis.
Now the crisis gets worse every day.
I surely wish that Cheif Justice John Roberts had the stones to get into this more deply, as he promised in Idaho.
Hawaii was made a state in 1959. NObama was born in 1961. Hawaii was a state when NObama was born- but I certainly do NOT believe NObama was born on USA soil. I think he was born in Kenya.
"Native born citizen is not a legally defined citizenship as far as I can tell"
Nor is natural born citizen, technically. But that doesn’t stop Birthers, as much as anti-Birthers, to define it on their own.
And that is big issue. The term "natural born citizen" has not been specifically defined by law, which allows a tiny glimmer of hope for the birthers. However, the wording of the 14th Amendments makes it clear, to me at least. Citizens are so either by birth or naturalization. There are only two classifications. If you are a citizen at birth, then you are a natural born citizen.
Here is an interesting piece from http://people.mags.net/tonchen/birthers.htm
” Despite the mainstream news media’s silence regarding this matter, an increasing number of Americans are concerned that Barack Obama might not be eligible, under the Constitution, to serve as President.
According to the U.S. Constitution, an individual born after 1787 cannot legally or legitimately serve as U.S. President unless he or she is a “natural born citizen” of the United States.
Among members of Congress and the mainstream news media, the consensus of opinion is that anyone born in the United States is a “natural born citizen”. However, when we researched this issue a bit more carefully, we found that the consensus opinion is not consistent with American history.
In Minor v. Happersett (1874), the Supreme Court said that, if you were born in the United States and both of your parents were U.S. citizens at the time of your birth, you are, without doubt, a natural born citizen. In the same case, the Supreme Court also said that, if you were born in the United States and one of your parents was not a U.S. citizen when you were born, your natural born citizenship is in doubt. So far, the Supreme Court has not resolved this doubt because, until now, there has never been any need to do so.
With only two exceptions, every American President, who was born after 1787, was born in the United States, to parents who were both U.S. citizens. The two exceptions were Chester Arthur and Barack Obama. When Chester Arthur ran for office, the public did not know about his eligibility problem. Only recently did historians learn that, when Arthur was born, his father was not a U.S. citizen. The 2008 election was the first time in history that the United States knowingly elected a President who was born after 1787 and whose parents were not both U.S. citizens.
Barack Obama publicly admits that his father was not a U.S. citizen. According to Minor v. Happersett, there is unresolved doubt as to whether the child of a non-citizen parent is a natural born citizen. This doubt is not based on the imaginings of some tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorists on the lunatic fringe of society. This doubt comes from what the Supreme Court has actually said, as well as a variety of other historical and legal sources which are presented and discussed here.
This Primer introduces and explains the Obama Eligibility Controversy, in question-and-answer format, for a non-technical general audience. We’ve double-checked the facts presented here, and we’ve cited the sources of each fact.”
Thank you!
Ath the time of WHOSE birth?? I read that the husband was born in the U.S. SHE was not.
No, it is a book that they read. Like many other books. That doesn't make every word in all those books the law.
You forgot your favorite category - illegal aliens.
Hillary,
We are dealing with Marxists here. Of course they understand the “complexity”! They are **lying**! They are deliberately and maliciously **lying**!
All Marxists lie!
Their goal is to confuse the American public. But...I suspect that American public is smarter than the Marxists believe. The American public is thinking, “ Why spend nearly a million dollars worth of attorney time? An honest president would be honored to provide and long form birth certificate and any other relevant documentation.”
I feel the same way that you do.
Obama refuses to show any of his records...why? I guess some people will accept anything without question. That is NOT what our founders wanted... they are weaklings who are like sheep.
Since your children were born in the US they are citizens by birth, "natural born citizens", yes.
"It seems to me that they are more than native born citizens, since at this time both their parents are US citizens, but they may not measure up to natural born citizens. Am I right? If so, what would you call this 4th class of citizens?"
There is no "more" than native born citizens. A "native born" and "natural born" citizen are the same thing. There is no 3rd class, let alone a 4th.
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