Posted on 02/23/2008 10:56:29 AM PST by Bob J
Ever since Super Tuesday a super debate has been raging on FR concerning John McCain. I was never a McCain supporter, in fact I penned the post Super Tuesday post "Official FR Drinking Thread" so we could together drown our common disappointments into oblivion.
FReepers seem to be moving into three distinct groups. The first are those that have always supported McCain, a lot or partially. There are those that don't like McCain but are willing to support him because they believe they will get some of what they want or to defeat what the see as the more critical danger, Obama or Clinton. The there's the third group, those that viscerally dislike McCain and vow never to vote for him for any reason.
The actions and motivation for support from the first two groups seem obvious...they would rather see McCain in the White House than a dem. But for the life of me I cannot understand some of the actions of the third.
Allow me to explain.
I understand you dislike McCain and the reasons why. He is far too liberal on many issues, he has stabbed conservatives in the back several times and he is too cozy with the dems. These are all defensible reasons to not vote for him or to vote third party and you have every right to vote as you see fit and for whatever reasons you hold. What I don't understand is why some here are making such concerted efforts to dissuade others from voting for or supporting him.
As flawed as McCain is there is no way a logical case can be made that we would be better off under Obama or Hillary (O&H). Even on most issues where McCain is closer to the left than to us, O&H are much farther to the left than he is and would do much more damage than McCain. On the issues where he is not, the WOT, taxes, abortion, etc., the differences are stark and this does not even take into count extended issues like judicial appointments.
So why are you working so hard, so viscerlly, so nasty, to turn votes against McCain? If you truly feel as you do than go sit out November or cast your vote for your 3rd party candidate. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why you push for a McCain and GOP loss.
It may be as simple as "misery loves company". It may be that you validate your own position by getting others to believe as you do. It may be that there are some dem propaganda plants on FR. I don't know but I sure would like to and I know others do as well.
No one to Bush's right can get even into double digits at the national level right now.
Yes we should try to lobby McCain to be more serious about policing the border. No, Obama is not going to be better on the subject, he will be far worse.
But no, that isn't national security and the war, and pretending it is, is mere pretence. McCain is a hawk who our enemies rightly fear, just as Bush is. Ahmadinejad would much rather have Obama in the white house, and you can bet he is far more concerned about the McCain Obama difference, than and McCain Tancredo difference.
Plenty of Repubs have gone along with GWB on social security, education etc.
Thats why he cannot and will not be elected this cycle..
And any that says he will are deluded and oblivious...
Also, I do not think McCain can be trusted on the war. His Dem buddies will not allow it. McCain knows this is an issue which will force Repubs to vote for him (not me). Once he takes office he will act as he pleases and with McCain this is comnpletely unpredictable.
Maybe that's why we should take the choke-collar off Israel?
I think you are right. McCain will lose period.
He didn't get it passed through did he? NO! But, Obama will. THAT is why I said he just "talked about it." He did not have enough power to get it through! Believe me, there is NO ONE who detests McCain more than I do. I live in a state that had 48% Hispanics before amnesty, so you better believe that I don't want amnesty. There is NO ONE that I hate more than Ted Kennedy and for the two of them to author that soverignty destroying bill made me want to string them up. I can only hope that both of the old bast*rds will die.......and soon. IF McCain were to win and he picks a good VP choice, then if he dies, we could get that one to take over.
I was just trying to make a point that some people on FR don't seem to grasp the fact that Hillary, Obama or McCain will be the next President. We have no other choices! I will NEVER vote for McCain, but I will vote against Hillary or Obama. THAT much I can do. McCain just happens to be the lesser of three evils.
Like h*ll.
McCain said on Larry King less than two weeks ago that he intends to pursue immigration reform. He basically said that he will earn the trust of the people during the campaign about border security and then move on to immigration reform. You are far more likely to stop the Dems than McCain.
It’s the panicky party hacks who jump all over me for holding that standard. Excuuuuuuse me! I don’t really give a flying crap if the GOP loses the White House. I’m hoping for gridlock, because even when the GOP had Congress and the WH, they failed to defend our borders, reform the tax code, fix (provide an opt out for) Socialist Security, control their spending, stop the impending advance of the NAU, honor and defend the Constitution (McCain-Feingold), be honest and forthright about the nature of our Islamic enemies, and I could go on.
So, am I cynical about another four years of this crap? Yes. Do I think the Dems will be better? Of course not- but globalism is globalism. I’m over it.
If the GOP wants my support, they’ll have to start acting like patriots.
I don’t vote for liberals.
Agreed. We're not really as far apart as you may think.
My real preference at this point? 3rd and 4th parties break away from the worn out (D) & (R) monopolies. They are true Liberal and Conservatives parties. The country needs a more transparent way to know who they are really choosing between. The parties really need to stand for what their 'brand' is. This could be the moment in time where we have a chance to see that happen and alter the future election process. D's & R's go the way of Whigs and Federals.
I can dream, right? :-D
Any other scenario, I vote for (R) this year. Not happily. I'm not a Mccain fan at all. But I'd rather be alive to fix the party than be right and dead.
McCain will win Florida. McCain will win Ohio. McCain can bring NH back to the fold. He may even have a shot in Pennsylvania and if he wins there it would be goodnight Irene for democrats. A devastating loss.
Obama has hit the high water mark. From here on in McCain's merry men will removes the thorns from his headress one at a time.
Yes, the dems are enthusiastic right now but that's a big so what because the election isn't for 8 more months.
Is McCain better than Obama or Hillary? Not even close. And that's the way a lot of folks in the center are gonna come down come November.
Don't call me a liar, moron! Did he get it passed through? NO! He wasn't powerful enough! So he "talked about it" but couldn't get it passed through. My statement is correct!
How?
It'd be better if that were not so, but it is so.
Huckabee and Paul dropped out, or has McCain gotten the necessary electoral votes?
This should be in breaking news.
With a link
Geez are you in denial or what? It's over, history whatever. About all that's left is for McCain to pick his VP.
Give me a break.
Who’s foaming at the mouth? You posted to me. You asked me a question after ranting about my POV. What are you talking about?
Great post!
If McCain wins the GOP loses.
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