A Question for FR McCain Detractors

FR | 2-23-08 | Bob J

[Bob J]

Ever since Super Tuesday a super debate has been raging on FR concerning John McCain. I was never a McCain supporter, in fact I penned the post Super Tuesday post "Official FR Drinking Thread" so we could together drown our common disappointments into oblivion.

FReepers seem to be moving into three distinct groups. The first are those that have always supported McCain, a lot or partially. There are those that don't like McCain but are willing to support him because they believe they will get some of what they want or to defeat what the see as the more critical danger, Obama or Clinton. The there's the third group, those that viscerally dislike McCain and vow never to vote for him for any reason.

The actions and motivation for support from the first two groups seem obvious...they would rather see McCain in the White House than a dem. But for the life of me I cannot understand some of the actions of the third.

Allow me to explain.

I understand you dislike McCain and the reasons why. He is far too liberal on many issues, he has stabbed conservatives in the back several times and he is too cozy with the dems. These are all defensible reasons to not vote for him or to vote third party and you have every right to vote as you see fit and for whatever reasons you hold. What I don't understand is why some here are making such concerted efforts to dissuade others from voting for or supporting him.

As flawed as McCain is there is no way a logical case can be made that we would be better off under Obama or Hillary (O&H). Even on most issues where McCain is closer to the left than to us, O&H are much farther to the left than he is and would do much more damage than McCain. On the issues where he is not, the WOT, taxes, abortion, etc., the differences are stark and this does not even take into count extended issues like judicial appointments.

So why are you working so hard, so viscerlly, so nasty, to turn votes against McCain? If you truly feel as you do than go sit out November or cast your vote for your 3rd party candidate. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why you push for a McCain and GOP loss.

It may be as simple as "misery loves company". It may be that you validate your own position by getting others to believe as you do. It may be that there are some dem propaganda plants on FR. I don't know but I sure would like to and I know others do as well.

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[billva]

If the GOP slides left we buckle down and work harder to bring it back more to the right. Capitulation only puts you on the outside looking in. Much less chance of changing anything.

I'm with you 100%

[JasonC]

McCain has been a rock on the war in Iraq without asking anyone's permission, left media or right. So you are hopelessly wrong, that's all. Meanspirited, irrational, unfair to him, unwilling to pocket support where you get it, and ignorant.

[DoughtyOne]

That’s okay Jason. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. Take care.

[humblegunner]

cast your vote for your 3rd party candidate. That makes sense.

No it does not.

Name the last 3rd party candidate to win the presidency.

Come on... name him.

[DoughtyOne]

You’re welcome and thank you.

[Gondring]

And how exactly are you presently fighting Obama?

I've sent out e-mail messages to some active supporters I know, shaking their support by pointing out the emptiness and the disurbing facts from The Obama File (I find that shaking the supporters is easier than for many candidates because he is so empty...and even though I likely can't convert them, it does seem to lessen their zeal, which I hope leads to less effectiveness in recruiting others.

I've also done a bit of riling of Hillary supporters :-)

[billva]

100% of the push back against insane mccain is because his supporters continually try to force people to vote for him. If no one posts the BS of vote for McCain no will will post back.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I've read here. The poster that started this topic obviously was not a McCain supporter and many others here including this poster did not support him in the early primaries either.

However he has won and a lot of us will now support him. No one is forcing you and it really makes no sense for you to post that.

I guess you are trying to win us over with your charm.

[Gondring]

I’m just going to vote for the real conservative left, Ron Paul. No huffing; no hissyfit.

[GATOR NAVY]

Bump

[Grunthor]

So you are hopelessly wrong, that’s all. Meanspirited, irrational, unfair to him, unwilling to pocket support where you get it, and ignorant.

---

“unwilling to pocket support where you get it”

Support on what?

“Meanspirit, irrational, unfair and ignorant.”

You just described Juanito to a T.

[shadowgovernment]

thanks for your analysis - what a great post that
explains what for most of the conservatives on FR
know in our hearts..Mccain is much more a threat to
conservative influence in the GOP than anything
the dems can do.
I just hope the GOP is still worth fighting with to have our concerns addressed but I fear the GOP has been co-opted by socialist posing as conservative and they have their sycophants posting attacks on FR every day. Does the GOP = a conservative party or are we just not willing to see the king has no clothes?
Perhaps the third party as hard as it is and as
frightening as the thought is - will be where
conservatives can be heard..The GOP has given
us a Tin Ear for so so long that it is obvious there is outright hostility to conservative positions. And McCain has done us a favor for he has had the guts to tell us to our face that we do not matter. Now His pick as presidential candidate of the GOP the party has sent us a not so subtle message: drop your principles or be marginalized in our party.

[Grunthor]

“However he has won and a lot of us will now support him. No one is forcing you and it really makes no sense for you to post that.”

Haven’t read many of Jasons’ posts have you?

[Will88]

“What are your thoughts on the upcoming U.S. Supreme Court nominations? Do you really want hillary or Obama with that much power?”

That depends, if the older, liberal justices are the first to retire, then it won’t much difference.

And, if McCain is president, he’ll have to get the prior approval of Patrick Leahy and Teddy Kennedy on his nominees until the Republicans can regain the Senate (expect to lose more seats as of now).

And, maybe the most beneficial scenario of all in the long run: a Dem. is President and Republicans in the Senate learn to Bork and filibuster unacceptable nominees, as per the Dems. past behavior.

Looking at the realities, the SCOTUS appointment scare tactic is a red herring. Regaining the Senate after 2008 and rebuilding the party is more important than who wins the WH in 2008.

[Rb ver. 2.0]

“McCattle “

Outstanding brevity of wit!

[nyconse]

I see no reason to believe McCain can win. He is going to be hounded to death with scandal...from his media buds. He is old...Obama is charismatic and young. Historically, the party in power after 8 years gets kicked out. The only exceptions I can think of are Harry Truman and George Bush I. McCain is a lousy candidate...I just don’t see victory here.

[JasonC]

Agreed.

[Syncro]

However he has won and a lot of us will now support him

He won?

Huckabee and Paul dropped out, or has McCain gotten the necessary electoral votes?

This should be in breaking news.

With a link

[nyconse]

I absolutely agree with you, lets fix the primaries.

[TigersEye]

Your ideas are as good as any I’ve heard. How about picking the states randomly for each Presidential election instead of ending the time spread for primaries? I do see some good in having a “season” where there are a succession of debates and state campaigns. That gives time and context for scrutiny and the opportunity for candidates to either excel or stumble. It gives time for the press to do some digging and for rebuttals all around.