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How Will Illegal Immigration End? (Victor Davis Hanson)
RealClearPolitics ^ | January 25, 2007 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 01/25/2007 10:01:40 AM PST by EveningStar

We hear all sorts of solutions for ending illegal immigration. Build a wall! Beef up border security! Fine employers, and create a massive guest-worker program. Or America could insist on tamper-proof identification cards, or detention, deportation or even amnesty for some illegal aliens -- or all of these measures somehow combined.

But ultimately the solution lies in the hope that a Tijuana might become as prosperous as a San Diego -- now a few miles away but a world apart...

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Mexico; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; economy; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; mexico; vdh; victordavishanson
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To: EveningStar; Tolik
To control and beyond: moving towards eliminating the global tuberculosis threat (World 1/3 have TB)

bump & a ping for consideration

61 posted on 01/25/2007 11:12:45 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: HarmlessLovableFuzzball
That is absolutely not the way. It's an open admission that we are at their mercy to reign in their people and keep them from coming. If they want to improve their ways, fine. But keeping our borders secure and keeping invaders out is our responsibility. If our govt ties the hands of Border Security, then it's again our problem.

Well, there's more than one way to skin a cat. In an ideal world, with America proud, strong, and united, we'd simply build a wall and deport all those who came here illegally.

Realistically speaking, that ain't happening.

Pushing to improve Mexico's government can be done on a number of levels. Humanitarian. Pro-democracy. Anti-corruption. For the poor. For the children. You name it. It's hard to smear with charges of racism, xenophobia, or anything else negative.

The individual Mexicans are going to keep coming across, so long as there's incentive for them to do so. What makes an individual decide to leave his home for a foreign land is a factor that can be addressed, even if it's not specifically our problem.

That would make it our solution. Not as gratifiying as a wall, tough laws, and politicians with spine, but a solution nonetheless.

62 posted on 01/25/2007 11:13:03 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: HarmlessLovableFuzzball
"That is absolutely not the way."

Correct unfortunately W and the federal government have become the problem. And we are in desperate need of a solution or the nation will cease to exist in 10 or 15 years.

63 posted on 01/25/2007 11:14:52 AM PST by jpsb
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To: EveningStar
How Will Illegal Immigration End?

See my tagline.
64 posted on 01/25/2007 11:18:12 AM PST by BJClinton (Forget the fence, annex Mexico.)
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To: Rockitz
" lining their pockets with corporate cash."

Do not forget the drug money, they (Mexican/US ruling class) are getting their share of that too.

The border will never be defended since our masters want to keep the flow of drugs and cheap labor open. They could not care less about the well being of US citizens or society, crime in your neighborhood or mine is fine with them as long as their pockets are filled with cash.

65 posted on 01/25/2007 11:20:30 AM PST by jpsb
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To: EveningStar
It won't end. The best we can hope for is to minimize it. I'm all for LEGAL immigration. I'm the son of a Ukrainian immigrant myself. I've got nothing against anyone wanting to come here legally and make a better life for themselves and their family. The more the merrier, come on in... the waters fine.

But end this handout nonsense. Now. Not just for illegals, but we need to ween ourselves away from this culture of dependence before it kills us as a Nation. Stop fining corporations who knowingly hire illegals and start tossing managers/CEO's in jail. End the whole "sanctuary city" crud that cities use to sidestep State and Federal law.

It isn't doing any one any favors. Regardless of their country of origin.

66 posted on 01/25/2007 11:22:35 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be.)
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To: Steel Wolf

Do you really think Mexico will one day become a southern Canada .. prosperous enough for the vast majority of poor people to see no incentive in coming here ?


67 posted on 01/25/2007 11:24:35 AM PST by HarmlessLovableFuzzball
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To: gubamyster; A. Pole

It will end one of two ways. One, the nation will build an armed wall across the border and carefully monitor who crosses, or it will open up the floodgates and do away with national identity & national sovereignty.


68 posted on 01/25/2007 11:25:20 AM PST by Clintonfatigued ("Appointing Earl Warren was the biggest damn fool thing I ever did." Dwight D. Eisenhower)
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To: BJClinton
Didn't we discuss that a few years back? Instead of "integrating", like the President seems to be pushing us towards, but actually offering the Mexicans States themselves the opportunity to petition for entry into the Union.

I'd be cool with that. There is some doubt that their current crop of politicians would be honest enough to apply our laws to their Citizens, but it couldn't be any worse than it is now can it?

I'd offer the same proposition to Canada. Puerto Rico has already been petitioning for entry. I say we grant it to them.

69 posted on 01/25/2007 11:25:37 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be.)
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To: jpsb
" The border will never be defended since our masters want to keep the flow of drugs and cheap labor open. They could not care less about the well being of US citizens or society, crime in your neighborhood or mine is fine with them as long as their pockets are filled with cash. "

You're absolutely correct. Having been amongst that crowd (as a visitor only) I can say they are cold blooded and indifferent to anything-anyone except for what that person can bring to them.

Fer instance look at the Enron case. Those crooks weren't rejected at their country clubs - Heck in Texas it don't matter "how ya got it, just so ya gots plenty" (with apologies to Miss Barnett)

70 posted on 01/25/2007 11:28:23 AM PST by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: Dead Corpse
As a formal thing, it probably wouldn't happen, if for no other reason than nationalist sentiments in Mexico. Beyond that, there's no reason for them to join the U.S., since the conventional wisdom among our elites is that the concept of borders is outdated. They will exert control over Mexico and Canada via economic means, and leave the local governments to atrophy.

Within 50 years, the governments in Mexico City and Ottawa will be figureheads with no more power than Prince Charles. The North American Union is what the powerbrokers are betting on, in the long run, not America.

71 posted on 01/25/2007 11:36:41 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: Steel Wolf
This is what is wrong with power struggles. All 3 Nations would be much better off under the Constitutions framework. Economically, and socially.

The North American Union won't do us any more good than the European Union did for them. Except, as you noted, in the halls of power. I'm not so certain as you that such a thing will come to pass though.

72 posted on 01/25/2007 11:42:07 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be.)
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To: Armando Guerra; EveningStar
Ultimately, however, it is a prosperous (and politically stable) Mexico that will benefit the US the most.

I am no Mexican lawyer, so take the following like a tequila, with some salt. It seems to me that Mexico's basic problem might be one of constitutional structure, with a basic set-up that is not committed to private property, individual rights, and fundamental capitalism.

Basically, like many another Latin American country, the principles of socialism are enshrined without the primary financial and legal infrastructure in place to support them.

In other words, we can pour money in for specific projects, put there is nowhere to actually put in massive foreign aid where it can do some work. The capacity to absorb wealth, and actually use it to create more wealth simply isn't there for some psycho-legal-historical reason beyond my pay-grade.

Example: The EU poured billions annually into Ireland, Portugal, and Greece for years. Ireland did the best with it, because they had a structure, derived, one would suppose, from the British system, by which Ireland was managed for some 700 years. Portugal did OK, not great. And Greece also ran. I.E. They seem to have wound up with less benefit from the massive investment than others.

73 posted on 01/25/2007 11:43:11 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (Hoc est punctum quod inter gentes ferro et ignes dividitur.)
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To: HarmlessLovableFuzzball
Do you really think Mexico will one day become a southern Canada .. prosperous enough for the vast majority of poor people to see no incentive in coming here ?

No, I think that's the best option, and what we should be pushing for.

What I think is more likely is that the ruling class (pardon the anachronistic and somewhat inaccurate expression) of America would prefer to let both sides collapse, in order to gain economic dominance over the entire continent. A side effect of globalization will be that economics emerges as the new militarism. The race is on to see who can control the biggest slice of economic influence.

In that regard, they feel it may be necessary to break a few eggs to make the omlette.

74 posted on 01/25/2007 11:48:12 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: ichabod1
yes I know...I was purposely attempting to be funny.

the Hwang Ho was the star ship used in the novel 'Venus on the Half Shell'



according to the author it was so easy to operate even an idiot could fly it....unfortunately it would have to be a Chinese idiot as the instruction were all in Chinese......
75 posted on 01/25/2007 11:49:56 AM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Dead Corpse
The North American Union won't do us any more good than the European Union did for them.

What does that have to do with anything? The reasoning behind those decisions isn't about what's good for us, it's about what's good for them.

Certainly, we as individuals would all be better off under a Constitutional framework. That would require individuals ready to vote or fight in sufficent numbers to keep said framework. Those certainly don't exist in Mexico, and they're gradually disappearing from the U.S. and Canada as well.

76 posted on 01/25/2007 11:52:37 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: Clintonfatigued
will open up the floodgates and do away with national identity & national sovereignty

This is the future of our nation. The politicians on both sides of the isle don't give a dang about the 'honest, law abiding' American citizens, otherwise the politicians would stop the illegal alien invasion of our nation. I'll say it one more time, "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated or killed American citizens". Those are the choices. Sounds just like islam, though none dare call it such.

77 posted on 01/25/2007 11:53:19 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: Steel Wolf

We ain't dead yet. Don't give up the fight before we get started.


78 posted on 01/25/2007 11:55:34 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be.)
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To: Spok

From a previous poster..
How do you out vote a populace movement whose heros are Fidel, Che, Simon, and Hugo instead of George Washington?
Which party needs a permanent poverty class to stay in power by providing 'circus and bread'?


79 posted on 01/25/2007 11:57:00 AM PST by griswold3
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To: Dead Corpse

The average law abiding American citizen is allowed to do nothing. Should the average law abiding American citizen attempt to do something, jail awaits him or her, the politicians will make certain of it. (ie..Border Patrol Agents)


80 posted on 01/25/2007 11:58:21 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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