Archaeologists Discover Ancient Church-(heh JC and Armagedon... are we having fun?)

ap ^ | 11.7.05 | na

[Flavius]

JERUSALEM - Israeli archaeologists on Saturday said they have discovered what may be the oldest Christian church in the Holy Land on the grounds of a prison near the biblical site of Armageddon. ADVERTISEMENT

The Israeli Antiquities Authority said the ruins are believed to date back to the third or fourth centuries, and include references to Jesus and images of fish, an ancient Christian symbol.

"This is a very ancient structure, maybe the oldest in our area," said Yotam Tepper, the head archaeologist on the dig.

The dig took place over the past 18 months at the Megiddo prison in northern Israel, with the most significant discoveries taking place in the past two weeks, Tepper said. Scholars believe Megiddo to be the New Testament's Armageddon, the site of a final war between good and evil.

Tepper said the discovery could shed new light on an important period of Christianity, which was banned by the Romans until the fourth century.

"Normally we have from this period in our region historical evidence from literature, not archaeological evidence," he said. "There is no structure you can compare it to, it is a very unique find."

Channel Two television, which broke the story Saturday evening, broadcast pictures of a detailed and well-preserved mosaic bearing the name of Jesus Christ in ancient Greek and images of fish.

Pietro Sambi, the Vatican's ambassador to Israel, praised the find as a "great discovery."

"Of course, all the Christians are convinced of the history of Jesus Christ," he told Channel Two. "But is it extremely important to have archaeological proof of a church dedicated to him? Certainly."

Joe Zias, an anthropologist and a former curator with the Israeli Antiquities Authorities, said the discovery was significant but unlikely to be the world's oldest church. He said there were no churches until Emperor Constantine legalized Christianity in the fourth century.

"The earliest it could be is fourth century and we have other fourth-century churches. I think what is important here is the size, the inscription and the mosaics," he said. "I think it is an important find as far as early Christianity but I wouldn't say it was the oldest church in the world."

The Antiquities Authority said more than 60 prison inmates took part in the dig in recent months. Channel Two said there is speculation that Israel may move the prison and open a tourist attraction in its place.

"If it's between a prison and a church, I would like a church," Zias said. "You can put a prison anywhere."

Israeli Tourism Minister Avraham Hirshzon said the discovery could greatly increase tourism to Israel.

"If we nurture this properly, then certainly there will be a large stream of tourists who could come to Israel. There is great potential and together with the evangelical center in the north could bring great strides in tourism," he told Channel Two.

[FourtySeven]

Handy dandy list thanks!

[NYer]

Jesus said:
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Jesus is condemning the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. He is saying that they desire the titles of respect for their own purposes, not for the glory of God; which is certainly wrong. He is not categorically condemning the use of titles of respect, but rather the misuse of them for one’s self interests.

If you disagree, then I ask you the following questions:

1) What do you call your male parent?

2) The passage in question also says not to call anyone teacher. Have you ever called anyone teacher?

3) In searching the New Testament, I came across numerous examples of New Testament authors calling human beings fathers. How do you explain this?

Here is a truncated list of some examples:

1. Matthew Chapter 1 – Men are called "father" so many times that I quit counting.

2. Romans 4:1-18 – St. Paul calls Abraham our father no less than eight times. In fact, the name Abraham means "father of the multitude."

3. Romans 9:10 – Isaac is called our father

4. 1 Corinthians 4:15 – St. Paul calls himself a father to the Corinthians.

5. 1 Corinthians 10:1

6. Galatians 1:14

7. Ephesians 5:31 and 6:4

8. Philippians 2:22 – St. Paul calls himself a father to Timothy

9. Colossians 3:21

10. 1 Thessalonians. 2:11

11. 1 Timothy 5:1

12. 2 Timothy 1:3

13. Hebrews 1:1, 3:9 and 12:9

I could continue multiplying verses, but I think I’ve already become redundant. The point again is that our earthly "fathers" in the faith are not an end in themselves – like gurus – but that they are representations (albeit sometimes poor ones) of our heavenly Father; as St. Paul says in Ephesians 3:14-15 "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named." The Catholic practice is, and always has been, the same as the early Church (Catholic Church) that St. Paul is called "father" in those passages because he is a spiritual father. Priests are called "father" because they, like St. Paul, are spiritual fathers.

Source: Catholic Bible

[afraidfortherepublic]

Indeed!

[Salem]

I have gone to Greg Laurie's church for twenty-five years. It is not a denomination, but practices New Testament Christianity—that is, the Church founded by Jesus Christ, the only mediator between God and man.

So this list is a little off, because I'm certainly not Catholic.

[Salem]

This made the front page of our local paper today.

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[Ciexyz]

A typo in your list, NYer. The Anglican Church was started by King Henry VIII (not VII as the list shows), as you surely remember, in response to the refusal of the Pope to grant an annulment to Henry's marriage to Catherine of Aragon.

[Ciexyz]

An Israeli tourist agent's dream: Come visit the church nearest the battlefield of Armageddon. Apocalypse Now, indeed!

[Rokke]

"Is there a translation of the mosaic inscription anywhere?"

Yeah. It says "All your floor tiles are belong to us."

[Rokke]

"So this list is a little off, because I'm certainly not Catholic."

Sure it is a little off. But it makes some people feel better if they can claim to be "the first". Interestingly, the Mormon church also claims it is the only "true" Christian church that can trace its origins to the church Christ founded. It is a silly competition that reveals a sense of insecurity rather than demonstrating evidence of purity.

[Salem]

  

[A.A. Cunningham]

That's pretty lame...

An apt description for linguistic literalists like yourself.

[SunkenCiv]

[SJackson]

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Related threads

Israeli Archaeologists Discover Roman-era Christian Building

[RobbyS]

Catholicism dates back to the first century. That is to say, The existence of an apostolic church consisting of local congregations. The idea of a great apostasy at the time the Constantine liberated the Christian churches, or by convening the Nicene Council comes from the Reformation period as a means of opposing Roman authority. If Constantine’s government, and the government of his son ever acted to impose Church authority on dissidents, it was at the behest of his Arian and semi-arian bishops to suppress the trinitarian doctrines of that Council.

[RobbyS]

Well, then I guess i have been wrongly named, because my four kinds call me Farther. Seriously, doesn’t Paul call himself Timothy’s father in Christ?

[RobbyS]

Some have better historical claims than others. Joseph Smith made his claim based on some tablets he says he found buried in New York State. This was in the 19th century.

[NorthMountain]

I think at best we can pray they abandon their religion of hate.

Love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you.

I pray for their repentance and conversion.

If that doesn't happen, I will defend myself and my community with lethal force if necessary.

[RobbyS]

The Romans did not actually ban Christianity. Rather its actions were like that of the Soviet Union, which restricted its actions/officially persecuted it. It actually thrived under Diocletian’s restoration of order. Then WHAM, the Great Persecution, which came close to destroying the Church in the eastern part of the Empire.

[RobbyS]

The Romans did not actually ban Christianity. Rather its actions were like that of the Soviet Union, which restricted its actions/officially persecuted it. It actually thrived under Diocletian’s restoration of order. Then WHAM, the Great Persecution, which came close to destroying the Church in the eastern part of the Empire.

[Iscool]

Well, then I guess i have been wrongly named, because my four kinds call me Farther. Seriously, doesn't Paul call himself Timothy’s father in Christ?

Being a father or acting as a father are not the same as being called a father, especially in the context of the scripture where it is spoken of...

Your kids want to call you father, since you are their father, fine...Altho Paul called himself the father of so many who were not his actual children, he never intended anyone call him father other than his own children...Paul made that clear in his teaching...That's the part you guys ignore...

Joh_8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication;

When were were spiritually born again,

we have one Father, even God.

We received ONE Spiritual father...Only one...The need for a priesthood and the priesthood was eliminated...

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.