Posted on 10/23/2005 10:36:47 AM PDT by Crackingham
An Episcopal group has a doomsday plan that calls for ousting conservative bishops and seizing church property if they attempt to break from the denomination over its increasingly liberal position on homosexuality.
The so-called "Day After" plan could kick in as early as June, when the Episcopal Church USA holds its General Convention in Columbus, Ohio, according to minutes from a closed steering committee meeting of the group Via Media.
Joan Gunderson of Aspinwall, who served as recording secretary for committee meeting in late September, said nothing from the strategy session has been approved by the group's leadership.
"The minutes from our meeting were not meant to be public," said Gunderson, who is vice president for policy of Progressive Episcopalians of Pittsburgh, formed to counter the conservative movement in the church. "It's a rough draft, and nothing in it has been finalized. We were just looking at possible worst-case scenarios."
Many in the church are bracing for a possible announcement by conservative bishops during the convention that the Anglican Communion Network be "recognized as the only legitimate expression" of Anglicanism in North America.
The Network was created by Pittsburgh Bishop Robert Duncan and other conservative bishops after the denomination consecrated an openly homosexual man, V. Gene Robinson, as bishop of New Hampshire in 2003.
The denomination also angered many traditionalists by granting tacit approval for blessing services for same-sex couples.
Duncan believes the groundwork being laid to block conservatives from returning the church to its traditional roots is an extreme measure.
"If authentic, and we believe they are, the minutes of this meeting show how far the progressives are willing to go to appropriate what is not theirs," Duncan said. "I trust that the people in the Diocese of Pittsburgh will see clearly who is serving their best interest."
(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...
My friends in Connecticut told me that their pastor was removed by the ECUSA Bishop of Connecticut because of the pastor's objections to ordaining a gay Bishop and putting openly gay pastors in charge of churches. The response was to remove him from his church -- he was replaced by an openly lesbian pastor. The parishioners are reeling over this action, but have nowhere to go. The few other pastors who are against ordaining gays have probably been removed as well, but I don't know for sure. The national leadership of ECUSA and the Lutherans and the Presbyterians and Methodists are all walking down this same path. Reminds me of back in the day when Jesus went up against the corrupt leaders of the synagogues, only this seems much worse. The actions of these Christian leaders is in direct contradiction to all that God, Jesus, and the Church have ever stood for. What to do that would actually make a difference????
The whole membership thing is another can of worms as it gets into priest pay and other benefits for priests.
The removal of that Priest and replacement with a lesbian fake priest breaks every canon law of that church as the church was siezed by the bishop.
Our bishops can't decide for us what priests we hire or fire at our local parish level. The parish vestry does a search after the members participate in a profile of the priest they want. Then, the vestry votes on the list of candidates and selects the new priest.
The bishop may make suggestions re whom to hire as our priest, they can't order the parish vestry to hire one.
The Bishop can remove a priest of immoral reasons like sexual abuse. However, what was done in Conn. was not correct.
And it isn't just Episcopalians that are dealing with this. All of the mainline demoniations are struggling with these types of takeovers.
Interestingly, it is only the denominations which have property owned by the chhurch organization that are in danger (Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc.) Denominations in which individual congregations own their churches are not bothered. This is what led me to believe that this is more about the money and property than it is about anything else. They are using gay/lesbians as the method to drive people away. The few who are left are easy to steamroll into funding whatever these leftists want to support.
I agree with you.
Scary!! Let's hope their plot doesn't get very far. It IS strange that only 10% of all the church sides with the Conservatives. Seems like a really small percentage for any large Christian church in the USA. Something smells like a rat here.
I worry about similar things happening in the Catholic Church. However, only the Pope can create and remove Bishops, so that would make it more difficult for local renegades to have their way. However, let just one "progressive" Pope get elected (Holy Spirit forbid!!), and all bets are off. That is why I am praying that Benedict lives to be 150!!
Unfortunately, many "progressive" Bishops of the Catholic Church are pushing to be given greater "collegiality" - that is "more local control". They want a greater say in things like nominating new bishops. So far, the Popes have been too conservative to do that, and I hope they always remain so. If the Pope ever gives in to the "progressives", things will go downhill very quickly. This situation with Episcopal church should serve as a warning.
Come join we Southern Baptists. You can belong to a staunchly conservative- biblical based organization and not fear the group taking over anything. Liberals had control of our institutions for the while, but the grass-roots rose up and overturned the liberals.
HUH? They can go ANYWHERE else.....don't need the building....just a Bible and a place to meet. I can't believe this.
Luther, Knox, Calvin, and other Reformation leaders must be rolling in their graves at what the old Protestant churches have become. No wonder two hundred year old churches are closing and evangelical churches are flourishing.
David Virtue has sent this out in his weekly newletter this week.
True, they can always meet at someone's home. That's not my point. These are good Episcopalians who have no "official" church to retreat to in Connecticut. I don't know the whole story on this. As I recall the congregation was too small to be self-supporting so the Bishop was acting within his perceived rights to send these rebels on their way - "my way or the highway." This has all happened this past summer. I agree - unbelievable.
Suppose your church, which you attend, was suddenly taken over by a bunch of interlopers who introduced voo-doo dancing and mime worship. Wouldn't you want to stay and fight for what you had worked so hard to establish? Wouldn't you feel just a tiny bit resentful to people who said..."Just leave. You can worship anywhere?"
This is a real struggle. I left Methodism (after generations of Methodists in my family going all the way back to Wesley in England) in the late 60s over racism. Many others did the same, and when I returned in the 90s, the hymnals and congregations reflected racial integration. Some stayed and fought, but those who left also "sent a message."
In 2003 I left again, after my 6th gay pastor in a row was appointed. Since gays are only 3% of the U.S. population, I felt that this was greatly disproportionate; and the preaching and treatment of the children in the church became indoctrination away from the Bible and towards wholesale approval of homosexual behavior.
I sent my second message, but this time I do not plan to return. I've had it with the UMC. Wesley must be spinning in his grave at what this "church" has turned into, with all its outraged, self-righteous liberals shouting down the Bible-believers in classes and at meetings. Their "tolerance" -- of sin -- has become intolerable to me.
I feel the conservatives saw the writing on the wall and there has been a slow dwindle of Episcopalians over the last few years so that only the liberal leaders and followers remain. Of course, there would be a few conservatives left but not that many so I think 10% is a fairly good number although it does seem like it should be at least 25%
But the liberals won't be able to pay for their buildings or the salaries of their gay priests when all the traditional Episcopalians take their money and go home. My former parish in Virginia is nearly broke because of the drop in contributions; it bought a new building just before the vote on Gene Robinson, and now it can't pay the mortgage on the building. I'm still attending an ECSUA church in my new home, but will not give it a dime because it is in the ultra-liberal diocese of Philadelphia.
Personally, I think that we will begin to see sell-offs of properies which occupy expensive real estate, and some items will probably show up in art auctions.
It also speaks directly to the willful ignorance of most non-Episcopal commentors on the ECUSA. We don't even call ourselves Protestant anymore (since 1984), and certainly one must do more than merely show up to become a "member."
I was surpirsed the Civil Courts overruled Canon Law in California - they certainly didn't in St. Louis re: Church of the Good Shepherd.
When I was Chair of my local Parish Endowment Fund in the 90's I was greatly surprised to learn that the Diocese ultimately is the final beneficiary of the fund, even though in this case it is wholly and legally separated from the Diocesan Fund. Some language to do with a requirement that the Parish priest be an ex officio Trustee (for spiritual guidance); thus connecting the local Fund to Diocesan Authority.
Wouldn't it be fun to watch the fireworks if my Parish voted to break communion with ECUSA and, in addition to claiming $2.5MM worth of real estate, the Diocese went after the Endowment?
The Conn. Bishop "fired" the Rector of St. John's Church, Bristol and replaced him with a sock-puppet of his own choosing. The bulk of the StJ congregation went to the other, like-minded E church in Bristol -- they'll probably be next. This is an odd kind of revolution where the powers that be overthrow the people and expropriate their property. See www.ctsix.org for a look at the six parishes that make up the dissenting movement in Connecticut.
YES....I see what you mean, now. It is despicable.
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