Posted on 06/15/2005 6:39:14 AM PDT by SheLion
Dems propose $125M in cuts
AUGUSTA - Majority Democrats on the Legislature's Appropriations Committee repealed a $250 million, budget-balancing loan Tuesday, replacing it with $125 million in spending cuts and a $1 hike in the state cigarette tax.
At $2 per pack in taxes, Maine would have the third highest cigarette tax in the country, according to Dan Riley, an Augusta-based lobbyist for the tobacco industry. The increase would effectively drive up the over-the-counter price for a pack of premium cigarettes like Marlboro from $4.19 to $5.19.
"We have selected some new revenue to bring us to the $250 million target," said Sen. Peggy Rotundo, D-Lewiston and co-chairman of the Appropriations Committee. "We cut as far as we felt we could."
Gov. John E. Baldacci said Tuesday he will support the cigarette tax increase as the best available solution to eliminating the $250 million state revenue bond included in the two-year, $5.7 billion state budget to take effect July 1. Like the 8-5 vote on the budget panel Tuesday, the state budget was advanced in March by majority Democrats who believed the $250 million loan was an acceptable alternative to deep spending cuts in state programs.
The proposal now goes to the printer, where it will be assigned an LD number. Legislative leaders essentially abandoned a planned Wednesday adjournment and anticipated debate on the new tax-and-spending package would begin sometime Thursday in the House.
Republicans on the panel have prepared their own proposal to reach the $250 million target that relies on severe cuts to state health care services and defers salary increases to state employees. The package also restores numerous proposals that were rejected by Democrats on the Appropriations Committee.
"A lot of our initiatives are about the size of state government and the costs associated with state employees," said Sen. Richard Nass, R-Acton and the senior Republican on the budget panel.
Republicans were essentially bypassed by Democrats in March when the majority budget was passed. The GOP responded by launching a people's veto of the borrowing component with the hope of overturning the provision at the ballot box in November. About 40,000 of the required 51,000 signatures have been gathered, according to Sen. Peter Mills, R-Skowhegan. In response to Tuesday's vote by the Appropriations Committee, Mills indicated final approval by the Legislature of either proposal to eliminate the borrowing provision of the budget was all that was needed to terminate the people's veto effort.
"When it looks like this has passed in the House and Senate, we'll declare victory and the signature-gathering effort will stop," Mills said.
In a closely divided House and Senate, however, such conclusions cannot be presumed lightly. Republicans and some Democrats were not sure how the majority report from Appropriations would be received by rank-and-file Democrats in the House. The Democratic plan:
. Cuts $10.4 million from mental health programs by revamping the delivery of those services.
. Saves $5.9 million by delaying school construction projects by one year.
. Cuts $2.2 million from the DirgoHealth program.
. Cuts $5.5 million from the Veterans Tax Reimbursement program.
. Cuts about $7.2 million from the Business Equipment Tax Reimbursement program.
By contrast, the GOP plan:
. Delays $20 million in state employee salary increases until the next budget cycle.
. Cuts $20 million in health care services to poor working Mainers.
. Transfers $32 million from the DirigoHealth program to the General Fund, leaving DirigoHealth with a balance of about $6 million.
. Eliminates the governor's Office of Health Policy and Finance with a $2 million deappropriation.
. Eliminates the reduction to the BETR program proposed by Democrats.
Rotundo said Democrats could not support the level of cuts Republicans wanted to make to the state's social service programs.
"In order to cut more we were going to have to get into those programs that provide health insurance for some of the poorest people in the state - the working poor," she said. "We just didn't want to go there. We did not want to remove thousands of people from programs that were providing them with some kind of health care."
And then of course there is always Rte 13 that goes back to I-95.....and the 2 Virginia counties between the Maryland line and the Bay Bridge/Tunnel don't add their own additional cig or sales tax.
I buy a Virginia made brand of cigarettes for $13.00 a carton and they are far superior to anything I ever smoked made by Philip Morris........which is another reason PM is trying to get them put out of business through legislation in VA.
Any homeowner is permitted to grown up to 1/10th of an acre (appoximately 4,300 sqf) of tobacco for personal use without any problem.
when it comes to the climate for growing it, as far as I know it can be grown in all 50 states and is grown in Canada - one just has to find the type acclimated to the territory.
No, there is just a surcharge of 25 cents per bag of loose tobacco.
As to growing tobacco; they use "hothouses" and such to grow marijuhanna up here year round, don't they?
I have no clue about pot.
Has anyone ever really tried growing tobacco at home in this sort of climate?
I am too lazy to plant a garden much less try growing my own tobacco and drying it, etc. LOL! But way up here, the winters are so long and summers can be very damp, that I don't think this kind of climate is good for growing tobacco. A greenhouse would be the best way to go I guess, if someone was really serious about growing their own tobacco.
Well, first of all, the black market is illegal, and most people are just not going to break the law.
secondly, most users WILL keep buying cigarettes in the state,and pay the higher tax.
Thirdly, what few people will buy out of state, then so be it. If the state of Kentucky thinks it can make more money by taxing cigarettes at a lower price, and making it up on volume, then so be it. It is like air line tickets, there are a hundred different prices, everybody pays a different price. Some people get really cheap rates from the internet, and others, still pay the high price from the airline.
I really dont think too many people will not pay the high price, because those people long ago started rolling their own and pay no tax - but there are only so many of those kinds of people(people against any tax). There are basically 2 kinds of people : those who dont want to pay any tax, and those who will pay whatever the state says - esp if it is for a good cause - like schools, etc. There are really not very many people in the middle.
Why? unrolled tobacco is pretty cheap, very cheap considering the tastes, and of good quality, probably better than any you could grow. Once you find a good unrolled tobacco, you might find that it is better when you roll your own, than anything that you can buy that is taxed. I would not go back to buying finished cigarettes even if they dropped all the taxes, it just doesnt taste as good as what I can make myself.
Yes, you could grow your own tobacco, and dry and cure it, but what is really going to be tough, is putting in the 100 chemical carciogenics that they say that are in purchased tobacco.
I beg to differ with you. Most smokers,law abiding in all other ways,will avoid paying taxes on cigarettes even if they are breaking the law.
The reason for this attitude is that smokers are being banned from most public places in many states and then they are being heavily overtaxed.
What other product do you know that is taxed as much as 100% ?
Smokers are politically incorrect so they are fair game----I just hope coffee drinking doesn't become "unpopular" in the next few years or the price could double on that too.
Just try this with beer.-
Good One! (mousetrap) :D
Yes, and it's about time, if it's the kind I think you mean. Just don't expect the media to make you aware of it.
Well, first of all, the black market is illegal, and most people are just not going to break the law.
I thought so. It applies to everyone. Not just smokers.
Oh, not to worry; just find that old can of DDT out in the barn that granpa used to exterminate the bats with and dip all your smokes in that.
Not only will that probably meet your MDR of carcinogens, it might make the bloomin' things taste a little better as well!
Some of my fellow Civil War Reenactors who smoke will load up a clay pipe with cigarette tobacco when in carachter, since very few people smoked cigarettes back in the 1860's.
It was considered somewhat "effeminate" for a male to do so, apparently, and any sort of smoking was not at all "ladylike" or socially condoned for the gals.
Down South that social restriction was eased up a bit and they even made small pipes just for the Belles.
How can cigarette smoking be "effeminate" if women are not allowed to smoke cigarettes? It was an activity that females were not allowed to do, so how can that activity be associated with femininity? Makes no sense.
We have already had huge increases in cigarette taxes in the midwest, the east coast, California, etc. and most smokers in those states keep on paying whatever increase the tax is.
Only a few smokers seem to either quit, or roll their own, but the overwelming majority, keep buying state taxed cigarettes regardless of how high the tax is.
So, if a states again raises the cigarette tax again and again, there is no reason to think that smokers will all of a sudden break the law - they havent so far, so why would they start?
What is the tax in NY? $6? and they still keep paying it, so if there is another $6 tax, it will just be be more of the same.
It is like 30 years ago when new cars sold for $2000 , each time an increase happened, lots of people said they would never buy a new car that cost over $3000, or over $5000, or over $10,000, etc, but each time they did.
Yes Sandy, the black market IS illegal but has been in existence ever since free commerce has been attempted to be handcuffed by the government. The black market has been accepted and has flourished worldwide when the market forces could no longer support the tyrannical excises imposed by your respective governments. The black market has always been and always will be the final relief against your money hungry government!
When push comes to shove SandyB, people WILL break the law. It is obvious to me that you and your vices have not yet been approached by your government necessitating further government intervention.
Yes, smokers in the state will continue to purchase their cigarettes in state until they realize (as I and all my smoking friends have done) the immense savings to them by purchasing out of state. The ignorant masses of today will eventually wake up tomorrow. And when that happens, as it ultimately will (evidence California and their fat taxes) your state, realizing they can no longer depend on the tyrannical tax revenues on cigarettes will have to seek out other sources to tax in order to keep their promises. And that target will most likely be your gasoline and sales taxes.
If the state of Kentucky thinks it can make more money by taxing cigarettes at a lower price, and making it up on volume, then so be it.
The above is a nonsensical statement SandyB, the state of Kentucky grows and produces tobacco products and merely taxes the sales of such products. As long as the state produced products are sold at a lower price than competitive states, then they will continue to reap profits.
Now listen carefully: THE ONLY THREAT TO THEIR LIVELIHOOD IS FROM THE STATES SUCH AS NEW YORK WHO HAVE NOW PROHIBITED THE SALE AND SHIPMENT OF INTERNET SALES OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS INTO THEIR STATE!
FURTHERMORE, MY FAVORITE TOBACCO SITE "DIRTCHEAPCIGS.COM" IS NOW GOING OUT OF BUSINESS DUE TO THE TYRANNICAL LAWS BEING IMPOSED BY THE STATES WHO ARE BEING DENIED THEIR FAIR SHARE OF THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!
Isn't your government a wonderful thing? Another legitimate, law abiding company now driven out of business!!!!!!
Many in Massachusetts are getting their cigarettes from New Hampshire and even getting them from other sources which I won't mention.
Smokers may have a habit that some don't like, but smokers are not stupid.
As far as the car simile----not the same thing.When car prices went up it was because everything went up,an inflationary rise in price,but the cigarettes are going up because of taxes which vary from state to state,and then those taxes are used to fund budget shortfalls in other areas.
I remember when coffee was 5 cents at many lunch counters and now a small costs about $1.25----and this is the cheap coffee. The price didn't rise because of taxes.
Re:
" How can cigarette smoking be "effeminate" if women are not allowed to smoke cigarettes?"
Yes, that does seem to be a bit of a paradox - but remember, that was Victorian America, and things were quite a bit "different" back then.
As near as I can tell, France was the center of fasion and trendiness in the occidental World for most of the Victorian period; French men were beginning to strut their "cool" by smoking their new-fangled cigarettes (litarally French for "little cigar").
American men apparently thought Frenchmen to be a bit "swishy" for some reason - kind of like "Girlie Men" I suppose, and did not slavishly follow their fashion lead quite as much as the ardent female reader of the Godsey Lady's Book fashion periodical tried to emulate the Ladies of gay Paris.
The French influence did show up in places like Louisiana though, and period drawings of Confederate Louisiana "Tiger" Zouaves show them smoking primative (probably hand-rolled) cigarettes, and the habit seems to have spread to the Southwest by the end of the Civil War or shortly thereafter.
I don't see a lot of cigarettes being consumed in the American Northeast until the beginning of the 20th Century, really, pipes and chewing being the preferred manner of nicotine consumption.
But thousands of men who didn't smoke before WW-I often picked up the habit as "Doughboys" in the trenches of France, and it really took off in America after that.
During the tuburculosis outbreaks of the 1920s and 30s, menthol cigarettes were actually prescribed as a medicinal "treatment" at many of the Sanitoriums where sufferers of TB were quarantined. Some of the patients liked them so much that demand for mentholated cigarettes has continued to this day.
I went elsewhere. In fact, 1700 miles elsewhere! Maine will never see another penny of revenue from this household. Sorry about your misfortune in that communist country. Land is cheap out here in Missouri, we have 2 Pubbie senators and a Pubbie Governor, and our taxes/cost of living is mucho cheaper. There ain't a Somali in sight either. Come on down, Americans are welcome.
I think that is one reason men smoke big cigars. Smoking cigarettes to some might be "girlish?" Although I don't think so. :)
During the tuburculosis outbreaks of the 1920s and 30s, menthol cigarettes were actually prescribed as a medicinal "treatment" at many of the Sanitoriums where sufferers of TB were quarantined. Some of the patients liked them so much that demand for mentholated cigarettes has continued to this day.
I've heard about this! Must be true!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.