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Newfound Dinosaur a Transitional Creature
Las Vegas Sun (AP) ^ | May 04, 2005 | Malcolm Ritter

Posted on 05/04/2005 12:32:23 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan

Caught in the act of evolution, the odd-looking, feathered dinosaur was becoming more vegetarian, moving away from its meat-eating ancestors.

It had the built-for-speed legs of meat-eaters, but was developing the bigger belly of plant-eaters. It had already lost the serrated teeth needed for tearing flesh. Those were replaced with the smaller, duller vegetarian variety.

(Excerpt) Read more at lasvegassun.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: crevolist; dinosaurs; evolution; godsgravesglyphs; paleontology; transitionalfossil
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To: Ichneumon
He also (clumsily) dodged the fact that even the simple examples of crystals and so forth shatter his false presumptions about what nature can or can't do on its own without the intervention of a "mind".

I don't think it was a dodge. It was more of a dishonest assertion of "but that's different!", insisting that crystals have some kind of special (unspecificed) property that let them behave as they do...but life doesn't.
541 posted on 05/05/2005 5:52:19 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Ichneumon

It means just what I said. Small changes don't get the job done. Large scale changes are required, chromosmal mutations et al. That's my opinion and I think you would agree with it if you gave it some thought rather than jump to defensive conclusions.


542 posted on 05/05/2005 5:54:07 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Ichneumon
I did not say that mutation is not responsible for change. I said random mutation is not responsible.

There is overwhelming evidcne that genetic change, or mutation if you will, accompanies change, but that's a small part of the story. We've only just mapped the human genome. We know little how it works. We know little what other biological structures or mechanisms may interact with the genome or what roles they may play in its change or mutation.

As for "overwhelming evidence" for natural selection, I'm unclear what you mean. Darwin theorized that random mutation would create many different versions of an organism who would compete against each other for resources until all but the best adapted to the environment have died out. Well there's just no evidence for that. If by "natural selection" you mean that life on Earth seems to have to ability to change to better adapt to its environment, well then yes, there is a great deal of evidence for that.

543 posted on 05/05/2005 5:56:28 PM PDT by colorado tanker (The People Have Spoken)
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To: metacognative

Knock it off with the gratuitous personal attacks.


544 posted on 05/05/2005 6:02:24 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Ichneumon
#521,#523...
Really.. so we're supposed to get into a who shot John on who uncovered any evo "fakes"... surely you're joking..

Knowing you somewhat you're not joking..

I would engage this subject if I cared, I don't.. I don't care if some bones(and the storys invented to explain them) are real or fake.. If all the bones(fossils) are as reported I would still question them.. and the stories invented to explain them I take with a grain of salt.. I don't take as fact the "creationist" views of how life started and I take palentology (as a science) on about the same level of fact..

So there is nothing it this for me to gain.. except playing with you and Demensio.. which I did, and am now.. Your opinion is just an opinion.. they are like elbows you know..

I like to spit on my betters shoes.. Are you my better.?.

Signed;
Not buying palentology as other than a pseudo-science.. And am suspicious of any myth invented to explain how "feathers" came into being.. especially from "scales"

545 posted on 05/05/2005 6:33:06 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: Grut
Bones from hundreds or maybe thousands of these dinosaurs were discovered at a two-acre dig site in east-central Utah, south of the town of Green River. Nobody knows why they gathered there or what killed them...

Seems pretty obvious. It was the Green River killer.

546 posted on 05/05/2005 6:36:16 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: ClearCase_guy

For sure


547 posted on 05/05/2005 6:44:04 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (The radical secularization of America is happening)
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To: Dimensio
[ No, you're not. You've been lying in evolution discussions here for some time now. ]

Lying...!... LoL..
People lie to themselves.. Especially after buying into bull sperm, like Socialism.. or Evolution.. And anything contrary to the script they view as disinformation.. or even a lie..

You seem to be an ideologue, I am too politically, but not on this subject.. Actually I pity palentological mental slaves.. But its a low grade pity.. I'm a bad man..

548 posted on 05/05/2005 6:48:34 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: hosepipe
You seem to be an ideologue, I am too politically, but not on this subject.

No. On this subject, you're just a shameless liar, like so many other creationists.

Michael Moore has more credibility than you do.
549 posted on 05/05/2005 7:08:09 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Dimensio
[ No. On this subject, you're just a shameless liar, like so many other creationists. Michael Moore has more credibility than you do. ]

LoL... my how you go on...

550 posted on 05/05/2005 7:38:19 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: metacognative

"Losing DNA information is not a positive step."

Since when, if what is lost is junk?

You asked for an example of a positive mutation. I gave you one.

This mutation helps certain of the HIV virus beat drugs.

That's called evolution.


551 posted on 05/05/2005 8:12:58 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan
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To: Ichneumon
I think you are the one who needs to "explain" your sweeping generalizations as well as your lack of a spell checker. If you go back "hundreds" of years you get into Lamarkism and beyond. Hardly support for Darwinian gradualism, natural selection through random genetic mutation. One of the very frustrating things about these threads is the lack of knowledge of the history of science.

As to the evidence against Darwinian gradualism, you might read Gould, who developed the PunkEek theory because he candidly recognized there was no evidence in support of gradualism. When change occurs in organisms it occurs quickly and directly, without need for random mutation, many mutations of an organism and the good old "battle for survival of the fittest."

We know that change occurs, what is often referred to as the "fact" of evolution. What we don't yet know is the change agent. I think we are in for some interesting surprises in the future as we unravel the secrets of the genome and the other structures and mechanisms that work with it and on it.

Well, good night to you.

552 posted on 05/05/2005 10:15:35 PM PDT by colorado tanker (The People Have Spoken)
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To: MeanWestTexan
I've already answered you "one man" problem in another thread.

I guess the folks on THIS thread, who weren't on the OTHER thread would like to hear it.


DNA analysis --- consistent with evolution --- has proven that there is at least one shared common male ancestor --- and one shared female ancestor, for that matter.

Even I'D like to see this!

553 posted on 05/06/2005 4:22:37 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: VadeRetro

You just posted a detailed desciption of horse evolution from hyracotherium to equus as an intricate, branching tree with numerous local trends in response to situational pressures here, there, and then. That's a good argument, but not for what you were doing with it.

I've noticed that a lot, lately. You guys don't even look at the stuff you grab to throw at us. At any rate, you don't know what it means.

 

Ok, I'll bite.  Just how many 'mutants' have humans 'created' that came about from -- response to situational pressures?

 

Yeah... sure...


554 posted on 05/06/2005 4:26:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: VadeRetro
Hate to admit it, but yours is bigger than mine.

[blush]

555 posted on 05/06/2005 4:27:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: js1138
...perhaps universal health care.

Which OUR country WILL have down the road a piece.


And it'll work Better than those OTHERS countries that have it!

(At least our controllers will tell us that.)

556 posted on 05/06/2005 4:30:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: js1138
-- but these do not involve the use of force against others.

Oh?

Depends on the definition of 'force'.

557 posted on 05/06/2005 4:31:16 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: js1138
It depends on whether your legs have evolved to be long enough to reach the ground....
 
 
Looks like THIS fellow has figured out how to get them to TOUCH!!
 
 

558 posted on 05/06/2005 4:40:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: MeanWestTexan

Therefore, no Evo should be against 'birth defects'.

It's merely the big E trying to function and Man trying to put a STOP to him..........


559 posted on 05/06/2005 4:43:16 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: metacognative
Of course, to explain anomalies like the Cambrian Explosion requires a little imagination -- hence the theory of intelligent design.

or a LOT!

560 posted on 05/06/2005 4:44:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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