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VANITY NOTICE: I've just learned that I am an "EXTREMIST!" WOO HOO!! [This is NOT an OPUS]
FreeRepublic.com | April 5th, 2005 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 04/05/2005 2:22:08 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

VANITY NOTICE: I've just learned that I am an "EXTREMIST!" WOO HOO!!

Nicest compliment I've received in a long time.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

Y'all might want to be careful who you hang out with. If you are pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-constitution, pro-Liberty, pro-America and post to FreeRepublic.com, you risk being labeled as an "extremist."

That puts you in the company of extremist folks like George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Ben Franklin, & Co.

As extremists, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Speaking of quotes from our extremist forefathers, someone sent me these this morning:

George Washington - "..And let us indulge with caution the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion... Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle."

John Adams - "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

James Madison - "We've staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future ...upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God. The future and success of America is not in this Constitution, but in the laws of God upon which this Constitution is founded."

Noah Webster - "No truth is more evident to any mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people."

See you at the March for Justice!!

May God continue to bless and watch over America and all her extremists!


TOPICS: Free Republic; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: antiopus; newbievanity; opuswannabe; rightwingextremist
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To: lugsoul
What the Catholic Church teaches -here are some linked documents and excerpts that may answer questions:

  1. Declaration on Euthanasia

    Euthanasia's terms of reference, therefore, are to be found in the intention of the will and in the methods used. It is necessary to state firmly once more that nothing and no one can in any way permit the killing of an innocent human being, whether a fetus or an embryo, an infant or an adult, an old person, or one suffering from an incurable disease, or a person who is dying. Furthermore, no one is permitted to ask for this act of killing, either for himself or herself or for another person entrusted to his or her care, nor can he or she consent to it, either explicitly or implicitly. nor can any authority legitimately recommend or permit such an action. For it is a question of the violation of the divine law, an offense against the dignity of the human person, a crime against life, and an attack on humanity. It may happen that, by reason of prolonged and barely tolerable pain, for deeply personal or other reasons, people may be led to believe that they can legitimately ask for death or obtain it for others. Although in these cases the guilt of the individual may be reduced or completely absent, nevertheless the error of judgment into which the conscience falls, perhaps in good faith, does not change the nature of this act of killing, which will always be in itself something to be rejected.

  2. Evangelium Vitae

    To concur with the intention of another person to commit suicide and to help in carrying it out through so-called "assisted suicide" means to cooperate in, and at times to be the actual perpetrator of, an injustice which can never be excused, even if it is requested. In a remarkably relevant passage Saint Augustine writes that "it is never licit to kill another: even if he should wish it, indeed if he request it because, hanging between life and death, he begs for help in freeing the soul struggling against the bonds of the body and longing to be released; nor is it licit even when a sick person is no longer able to live".

    Even when not motivated by a selfish refusal to be burdened with the life of someone who is suffering, euthanasia must be called a false mercy, and indeed a disturbing "perversion" of mercy. True "compassion" leads to sharing another's pain; it does not kill the person whose suffering we cannot bear. Moreover, the act of euthanasia appears all the more perverse if it is carried out by those, like relatives, who are supposed to treat a family member with patience and love, or by those, such as doctors, who by virtue of their specific profession are supposed to care for the sick person even in the most painful terminal stages.

    The choice of euthanasia becomes more serious when it takes the form of a murder committed by others on a person who has in no way requested it and who has never consented to it. The height of arbitrariness and injustice is reached when certain people, such as physicians or legislators, arrogate to themselves the power to decide who ought to live and who ought to die. Once again we find ourselves before the temptation of Eden: to become like God who "knows good and evil" (cf. Gen 3:5). God alone has the power over life and death: "It is I who bring both death and life" (Dt 32:39; cf. 2 Kg 5:7; 1 Sam 2:6). But he only exercises this power in accordance with a plan of wisdom and love. When man usurps this power, being enslaved by a foolish and selfish way of thinking, he inevitably uses it for injustice and death. Thus the life of the person who is weak is put into the hands of the one who is strong; in society the sense of justice is lost, and mutual trust, the basis of every authentic interpersonal relationship, is undermined at its root.

  3. Respect for the dignity of the dying

    The condemnation of euthanasia expressed by the Encyclical Evangelium vitae since it is a "grave violation of the law of God, since it is the deliberate and morally unacceptable killing of a human person" (n. 65), reflects the impact of universal ethical reasoning (it is founded on natural law) and the elementary premise of faith in God the Creator and protector of every human person.

    6. The approach to the gravely ill and the dying must therefore be inspired by the respect for the life and the dignity of the person. It should pursue the aim of making proportionate treatment available but without engaging in any form of "overzealous treatment" (cf. CCC, n. 2278). One should accept the patient's wishes when it is a matter of extraordinary or risky therapy which he is not morally obliged to accept. One must always provide ordinary care (including artificial nutrition and hydration), palliative treatment, especially the proper therapy for pain, in a dialogue with the patient which keeps him informed.

    At the approach of death, which appears inevitable, "it is permitted in conscience to take the decision to refuse forms of treatment that would only secure a precarious and burdensome prolongation of life" (cf. Declaration on Euthanasia, part IV) because there is a major ethical difference between "procuring death" and "permitting death": the former attitude rejects and denies life, while the latter accepts its natural conclusion.

  4. International Congress: Life-Sustaining Treatments and Vegetative State: Scientific Advances and Ethical Dilemmas

    4. Medical doctors and health-care personnel, society and the Church have moral duties toward these persons from which they cannot exempt themselves without lessening the demands both of professional ethics and human and Christian solidarity.

    The sick person in a vegetative state, awaiting recovery or a natural end, still has the right to basic health care (nutrition, hydration, cleanliness, warmth, etc.), and to the prevention of complications related to his confinement to bed. He also has the right to appropriate rehabilitative care and to be monitored for clinical signs of eventual recovery.

    I should like particularly to underline how the administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means, always represents a natural means of preserving life, not a medical act. Its use, furthermore, should be considered, in principle, ordinary and proportionate, and as such morally obligatory, insofar as and until it is seen to have attained its proper finality, which in the present case consists in providing nourishment to the patient and alleviation of his suffering.


201 posted on 04/05/2005 3:37:20 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: jwalsh07
You've been commenting on her scans and her lack of cortex. I thought you might be interested in just how much cortex is necessary to walk, talk and chew gum at the same time.

TS was capable of walking, talking and chewing gum?

202 posted on 04/05/2005 3:38:08 PM PDT by Modernman ("I'm in favor of limited government unless it limits what I want government to do."- dirtboy)
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To: Modernman
As nothing more than a surrogate at MS's request, per the quote you posted.

Hey, none are so blind. I'm not gonna try to convincew you that white is white if you're seeing red. Not worth my time.

203 posted on 04/05/2005 3:38:14 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Petronski
But you want to consider her dead as of 15 years ago because it soothes your conscience.

My conscience is fine. I've never been bothered by my position on this case.

204 posted on 04/05/2005 3:39:35 PM PDT by Modernman ("I'm in favor of limited government unless it limits what I want government to do."- dirtboy)
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To: lugsoul
I know what popes do, but I believe you are extremely confused.

The "1980 encyclical" you refer to was not an encyclical; it was a declaration from the prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith, and was written by Franjo Cardinal Seper, the prefect of the CDF at the time.

It did not address the issue of nutrition and hydration directly, but reiterated that normal care must always be given:

When inevitable death is imminent in spite of the means used, it is permitted in conscience to take the decision to refuse forms of treatment that would only secure a precarious and burdensome prolongation of life, so long as the normal care due to the sick person in similar cases is not interrupted.

If you're going to lecture people on what the Church teaches, get your facts straight.

205 posted on 04/05/2005 3:39:39 PM PDT by B Knotts (Iohannes Paulus II, Requiescat in Pacem.)
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To: Modernman
That's probably accurate. That being said, since they did not request a jury trial, it is not a valid complaint to say that TS did not receive a jury trial.

Certainly it is. Name me one other case where the state ordered the death of a citizen absent a jury.

206 posted on 04/05/2005 3:39:43 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: DBeers

You know that last statement about hydration and nutrition is the Pope's, don't you?


207 posted on 04/05/2005 3:39:48 PM PDT by lugsoul (Wild Turkey)
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To: firequarrel
but the event that spurred the march was the Supreme Court declaring it unconstitutional to execute children.

No that's incorrect. The event that spurred the march was the Supreme Court declaring it unconstitutional to execute cold-blooded, heinous murderers.

SCOTUS has already declared it constitutional to murder children.

208 posted on 04/05/2005 3:39:49 PM PDT by MrDem (Monthly Special: Will write OPUS's for Whiners and Crybabies for no charge.)
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To: lugsoul
Your Madison quote is bogus. It appears in one place - the writing of the man who claims Madison says it - and one place only. All references to the quote come from that one source. He has no idea where he got it. He has no notes on where he got it. It does not exist in Madison's hand or in any contemporaneous record of him either saying it or writing it.

Not only that, but the sentiments it expresses are directly opposite to others Madison most certainly expressed. For example.

The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported.

209 posted on 04/05/2005 3:40:07 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Jim Robinson

well, whoever thinks so can see the extreme nature of my response when they see my extended middle extremity.


210 posted on 04/05/2005 3:40:10 PM PDT by wildbill
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To: Darksheare
Wow, so you're saying that violent serial criminals on death row have more rights than an innocent PERSON whose only 'crime' was to be an 'inconvenience' to an adulterous husband and a drain on 'resources.'

Apples and oranges.

211 posted on 04/05/2005 3:40:35 PM PDT by Modernman ("I'm in favor of limited government unless it limits what I want government to do."- dirtboy)
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To: Modernman
TS was capable of walking, talking and chewing gum?

OK, we're done. Ignorance truly is bliss and you're one blissful guy on this thread. Adios.

212 posted on 04/05/2005 3:40:52 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Modernman

Then you've successfully convinced yourself she died 15 years ago, just as I've said.


213 posted on 04/05/2005 3:40:56 PM PDT by Petronski (I thank God Almighty for a most remarkable blessing: John Paul the Great.)
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To: Modernman

He issued an execution order. That is a fact. If you don't know this, you should go back and look it up yourself


214 posted on 04/05/2005 3:41:02 PM PDT by ruoflaw
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To: lugsoul
"Honestly, do you say this because you know it,:

Yes any process that arrived at the result of death by starvation, must have been completely unfair.

Now what I have heard and believe to be true, is that facts of the case were never reviewed after being arrived at many years back. And I do believe Congress directed the courts to review the facts of the case and the courts refused. That seems unfair to me, since a review is mandated it all death cases. All except Terri's that is.

215 posted on 04/05/2005 3:41:17 PM PDT by jpsb
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To: Jim Robinson

Not only am I an extremist, but I saw a pic of Catherine Zeta-Jones (who is almost a lovely as my wife) today and I found out I am a lesbian, too!


216 posted on 04/05/2005 3:42:27 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (First you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women (HJ Simpson))
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To: jwalsh07
Certainly it is. Name me one other case where the state ordered the death of a citizen absent a jury.

Criminal defendants have the right to waive a jury trial, so I imagine it has happened at some point or another.

But we're not even talking about a criminal defendant here.

217 posted on 04/05/2005 3:42:31 PM PDT by Modernman ("I'm in favor of limited government unless it limits what I want government to do."- dirtboy)
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To: Modernman
They die

Eargo, the courts sentenced Terri to death.

218 posted on 04/05/2005 3:42:38 PM PDT by jpsb
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To: Jim Robinson

Wonderful news!

Perhaps we can all get accused of such.

Read on Dummie trolls. There's lots of us extremists about.

Praise the lord and pass the Ammo!


219 posted on 04/05/2005 3:42:39 PM PDT by roaddog727 (The marginal propensity to save is 1 minus the marginal propensity to consume.)
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To: B Knotts
“One cannot impose on anyone the obligation to have recourse to a technique which is already in use but which carries a risk or is burdensome. Such a refusal is not the equivalent of suicide; on the contrary it should be considered as an acceptance of the human condition, or a wish to avoid the application of a medical procedure disproportionate to the results that can be expected, or a desire not to impose excessive expense on the family or the community.”

That's what I'm referring to, not yours.

The former Pope decided, for himself, that a feeding tube did not meet this definition. The Church has not done so.

220 posted on 04/05/2005 3:42:39 PM PDT by lugsoul (Wild Turkey)
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