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FR Live Thread: Bush Kerry - First Debate (Pre-Debate discussion)

Posted on 09/30/2004 3:50:58 PM PDT by Admin Moderator

Edited on 09/30/2004 6:27:02 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

There have been several "live threads" posted today regarding the debate starting early this morning. Let's make this the official thread.

FR Live Thread: Bush Kerry - First Debate - Thread 2 - Here we go!


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; americangigolo; bushwon; cuticlesforkerry; debate; debates; electionpresident; fingernails; firstdebate; flushthejohn; jonsquerry; livethread; lurch; manicure; official; orangeman
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To: ImProudToBeAnAmerican

Shoot! I'd be drunk by :15 after!


1,501 posted on 09/30/2004 5:58:49 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Jewels1091

Just heard that after the third time a candidate goes over the time limit.... a loud buzzer sounds! Now that is funny!


1,502 posted on 09/30/2004 5:58:51 PM PDT by rs79bm (Insert Democratic principles and ideals here: .............this space intentionally left blank.....)
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To: StarFan

I lit a candle and read my Bible. Keep praying.


1,503 posted on 09/30/2004 5:58:54 PM PDT by MrChips (ARD)
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To: NYC GOP Chick

ping to come onto this thread and keep me calm!


1,504 posted on 09/30/2004 5:58:55 PM PDT by LisaMalia (In Memory of Sgt. James W."Billy" Lunsford..KIA 11-29-69 Binh Dinh S. Vietnam)
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To: Alas Babylon!

Question for everyone: Is there any streaming video other than C-Span?

Theirs is just not working for me :-(.

Many thanks.

D


1,505 posted on 09/30/2004 5:58:59 PM PDT by daviddennis (;)
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To: Peach

1500 responses on a PRE-DEBATE thread! Yikes.


1,506 posted on 09/30/2004 5:58:59 PM PDT by Hildy (The really great men are always simple and true)
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To: JusPasenThru

Only users lose drugs.


1,507 posted on 09/30/2004 5:58:59 PM PDT by txhurl
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To: MrChips
I am here . . . . a nervous wreck! Everyone say a prayer.

I noticed at DU they have a prayer circle going too.

A politically correct one, for Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Jews, Muslims etc to all pray together for Kerry. Ugh.

1,508 posted on 09/30/2004 5:58:59 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: RoseofTexas

this is it Hon


1,509 posted on 09/30/2004 5:59:03 PM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: TC Rider

Wow, what a buzzer!

Let's play the feud!


1,510 posted on 09/30/2004 5:59:04 PM PDT by jdm
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To: rewrite

 

 

THE FACTS ABOUT SENATOR JOHN KERRY (D-MA)

KERRY: DUKAKIS'S LT. GOV. WHO VOTES
LOCKSTEP WITH TED KENNEDY

On Key Votes, Kerry Voted 100% Of The Time With Senator Kennedy In 2001, 1999, 1998, 1993, 1992, 1989, 1988, 1987, 1986, and 1985. Over the course of his Senate career, Kerry has sided with Senator Kennedy 94% of the time for key votes.

As Michael Dukakis' Lt. Governor From 1983-1985, Kerry Supported Granting Prison Furloughs To Hundreds Of Massachusetts Inmates. Later as a U.S. Senator in 1988, he defended the program: "The furlough program in Massachusetts is tougher than the federal program." (John King, "Bush Surrogate Gets Ambushed In Dukakis Territory," The Associated Press, July 6, 1988)

KERRY CLAIMS HE'S FOR FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY, BUT VOTES FOR HIGHER TAXES, AND AGAINST TAX CUTS

Kerry Has Voted Against A Balanced Budget Amendment At Least Five Times. Other fiscally irresponsible votes include at least three key votes against lowering overall spending.

Kerry Voted Against President Bush's Tax Cuts, At Least The Tenth Key Anti-Tax Relief Vote Of His Senate Career.

Kerry Voted For The Biggest Tax Increase In American History Under President Clinton.

Kerry Has A Lifetime Rating Of 26% From Citizens Against Government Waste And Is A Long-Time Supporter Of Federal Funding For Boston's "Big Dig." Former Senate Government Affairs Chairman John McCain called the project "the biggest, most costly public works project in U.S. history." The "Big Dig" was estimated to cost $2.6 billion when it was approved in 1985. The cost to date has totaled more than $13.6 billion. ("Congressional Ratings," Citizens Against Government Waste Website, www.cagw.org, Accessed January 7, 2003; Natalie M. Henry, "Senate Commerce Investigates Overspending On Boston's €˜Big Dig,'" Environment And Energy Daily, May 3, 2000)

KERRY IS EXTREME ON ABORTION, SUPPORTING FEDERAL FUNDING AND PARTIAL-BIRTH ABORTIONS

Kerry Voted At Least Three Times Against Banning Partial-Birth Abortions.

Kerry Voted To Allow Federal Funding Of Abortions And To Provide Abortion Counseling In Federally-Funded Clinics.

KERRY IN DEPTH

KERRY: DUKAKIS'S LT. GOV. WHO VOTES
LOCKSTEP WITH TED KENNEDY

On Key Votes, Kerry Voted 100% Of The Time With Senator Kennedy In 2001, 1999, 1998, 1993, 1992, 1989, 1988, 1987, 1986, and 1985. Over the course of his Senate career, Kerry has sided with Senator Kennedy 94% of the time for key votes. (Roll Call Key Votes, http://oncongress.cq.com, December 2001)

Kerry's Lifetime Vote Rating From Americans For Democratic Action Is Five Points Higher Than That Of Fellow Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy. While Kennedy only rates an 88 lifetime average, Kerry has a lifetime average of 93. (Americans For Democratic Action Website, www.adaction.org, Accessed December 9, 2002)

Kerry And Kennedy Had Exactly The Same Low Rating From The American Conservative Union In Both 2001 (4%) And 2000 (12%). Kerry's lifetime rating from the ACU is 5%. (American Conservation Union Website, www.acuratings.org, Accessed December 9, 2002)

Kerry Is Against The Death Penalty. "I'm opposed to the death penalty in the criminal justice system because I think it's applied unfairly . . . ." (NBC's "Meet The Press," December 1, 2002)

Kerry Is An Extreme Environmentalist Who Voted With The Activist Group, The League Of Conservation Voters, An Average Of 95% Of The Time In The Last Three Congresses. (League Of Conservation Voters Website, www.lcv.org, Accessed December 9, 2002)

Kerry Has Voted For At Least Seven Major Reductions In Defense And Military Spending Necessary For Our National Security. (S. 1438, Roll Call Vote #286: Motion agreed to 53-47: R 21-28; D 31-19, September 25, 2001; S. 1087, Roll Call Vote #397: Passed 62-35: R 48-4; D 14-31, September 5, 1995; S. 1298, Roll Call Vote #251: Adopted 50-48: R 6-36; D 44-12, September 9, 1993; S. 3114, Roll Call Vote #182: Motion Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, August 7, 1992; S. 2399, Roll Call Vote #56: Motion rejected 50-48: R 3-40; D 47-8, March 26, 1992; H.R. 2707, Roll Call Vote #182: Motion Rejected 28-69 R 3-39; D 25-30, September 10, 1991; S. 1352, Roll Call Vote #148: Motion agreed to 50-47: R 37-6; D 13-41, June 27, 1989)

As Michael Dukakis' Lt. Governor From 1983-1985, Kerry Supported Granting Prison Furloughs To Hundreds Of Massachusetts Inmates. Later as a U.S. Senator in 1988, he defended the program: "The furlough program in Massachusetts is tougher than the federal program." (John King, "Bush Surrogate Gets Ambushed In Dukakis Territory," The Associated Press, July 6, 1988)

KERRY CLAIMS HE'S FOR FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY, BUT HAS A HISTORY OF VOTING FOR HIGHER TAXES AND AGAINST TAX CUTS

Kerry Called For "Fiscal Responsibility," Just Like When He Voted For The 1993 Tax Hike, The Largest In History. "All the Democrats have generally resisted the GOP proposal to make the tax cuts permanent. . . . Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry called for a return to the fiscal responsibility we gave this country in 1993 when we passed the Deficit Reduction Act.'" (Will Lester, "Top Democrats Complain About Bush Economic Plans, But Some Steer Away From Tax Debate," The Associated Press, October 15, 2002)

In His Senate Career, Kerry Has Voted Against A Balanced Budget Amendment At Least Five Times. Other fiscally irresponsible votes include at least three key votes against lowering overall spending. (S.J. Res. 1, Roll Call Vote #24: Rejected 66-34: R 55-0; D 11-34, March 4, 1997; H.J. Res. 1, Roll Call Vote #158: Rejected 64-35: R 52-1; D 12-34, June 6, 1996; H.J. Res. 1, Roll Call Vote #98: Rejected 65-35: R 51-2; D 14-33, March 2, 1995; S.J. Res. 41, Roll Call Vote #48: Rejected 63-37: R 41-3; D 22-34, March 1, 1994; S.J. Res. 225, Roll Call Vote #45: Rejected 66-34: R 43-10; D 23-24, March 25, 1986)

Kerry Has A Lifetime Rating Of 26% From Citizens Against Government Waste And Is A Long-Time Supporter Of Federal Funding For Boston's "Big Dig." Former Senate Government Affairs Chairman John McCain called the project "the biggest, most costly public works project in U.S. history." The "Big Dig" was estimated to cost $2.6 billion when it was approved in 1985. The cost to date has totaled more than $13.6 billion. ("Congressional Ratings," Citizens Against Government Waste Website, www.cagw.org, Accessed January 7, 2003; Natalie M. Henry, "Senate Commerce Investigates Overspending On Boston's €˜Big Dig'," Environment and Energy Daily, May 3, 2000)

Kerry Voted Against President Bush's Tax Cuts, At Least The Tenth Major Anti-Tax Relief Vote Of His Senate Career. (H.R. 1836, Roll Call Vote #165: Adopted 62-38: R 50-0; D 12-38, May 23, 2001; H. Con. Res. 83, Roll Call Vote #69: Adopted 53-47: R 4-46; D 49-1, April 4, 2001; S. 1429, Roll Call Vote #247: Passed 57-43: R 52-2; D 4-41; I 1-0, July 30, 1999; H.R. 2646, Roll Call Vote #169: Adopted 59-36: R 51-2; D 8-34, June 24, 1998; H.R. 2646, Roll Call Vote #288: Rejected 56-41: R 54-1; D 2-40, October 30, 1997; H. Con. Res. 84, Roll Call Vote #92: Adopted 78-22: R 41-14; D 37-8, May 23, 1997; S. 1028, Roll Call Vote #72: Adopted 52-46: R 5-46; D 47-0, April 18, 1996; H.R. 2264, Roll Call Vote #190: Passed 50-49: R 0-43; D 49-6, June 25, 1993; H. Con. Res. 64, Roll Call Vote #83: Adopted 54-45: R 0-43; D 54-2, March 25, 1993; H.R. 3628, Roll Call Vote #298: Rejected 51-47 (needed 2/3 majority): R 45-0; D 6-47, November 15, 1989)

In September 2001, Kerry Said We Should Not Raise Taxes In An Economic Downturn.  "The first priority is the economy of our nation. And when you have a downturn in the economy, the last thing you do is raise taxes or cut spending. We shouldn't do either. We need to maintain a course that hopefully will stimulate the economy. . . . No, we should not raise taxes, but we have to put everything on the table to take a look at why we have this structural problem today. . . . you don't want to raise taxes." (NBC's "Meet The Press," September 2, 2001)

's "Crossfire," April 16, 2002) 's "Meet The Press," December 1, 2002)

Kerry Voted At Least Five Times To Raid The Social Security Trust Fund. (H.R. 2014, Roll Call Vote #211: Conference Report Agreed To 92-8: R 55-0; D 37-8, July 31, 1997; H.R. 2264, Roll Call Vote #247: Conference Report Agreed To 50-50, With Vice President Gore Voting Yea: R 0-44; D 50-6, August 6, 1993; H.Con.Res. 268, Roll Call Vote #167: Conference Report Agreed To 58-29: R 21-20; D 37-9, June 6, 1988; H.R. 3545, Roll Call Vote #419: Conference Report Agreed To 61-28: R 18-23; D 43-5, December 21, 1987; H.R. 3128, Roll Call Vote #379: Conference Report Agreed To 78-1: R 40-1; D 38-0, December 19, 1985)

KERRY IS EXTREME ON ABORTION, SUPPORTING FEDERAL FUNDING OF ABORTIONS AND PARTIAL-BIRTH ABORTIONS

Kerry Voted At Least Three Times Against Banning Partial-Birth Abortions. (H.R. 1833, Roll Call Vote #596: Adopted 54-44: R 45-8; D 9-36, December 7, 1995; H.R. 1833, Roll Call Vote #301: Veto Override Rejected 57-41: R 45-6; D 12-35, September 26, 1996; H.R. 1122, Roll Call Vote #277: Veto Override Rejected 64-36: R 51-4; D 13-32, September 18, 1998)

Kerry Voted To Allow Federal Funding Of Abortions And To Provide Abortion Counseling In Federally-Funded Clinics. (H.R. 2518, Roll Call Vote #290: Rejected 40-59: R 6-38; D 34-21, September 28, 1993; S. 323, Roll Call Vote #254: Passed 73-26: R 20-23; D 53-3, October 1, 1992)

Kerry Has Voted Against Requiring Parental Notification For Minors' Abortions. (H.R. 5257, Roll Call Vote #266: Motion Rejected 48-48: R 8-34; D 40-14, October 12, 1990)

While Kerry Earns A 0% Rating From The National Right To Life Committee, His National Abortion And Reproductive Rights League Rating Is Consistently 100%. (Vote Smart Interest Group Ratings, www.vote-smart.org, Accessed December 6, 2002)

AT ODDS WITH FELLOW DEMOCRATS

On Abortion

Kerry Disagrees With Gephardt On Federal Funding Of Abortions. Kerry voted against a provision to prohibit the use of federal funds for abortions except in cases of rape, incest or threat to the mother's life, but Gephardt voted in favor of the provision. (H.R. 2518, Senate Roll Call Vote #290: Rejected 40-59: R 6-38; D 34-21, September 28, 1993; Amdt. to H.R. 2518, House Roll Call Vote #309: Adopted 256-171: R 157-16; D 99-154, June 30, 1993)

Kerry Disagrees With Gephardt On Banning Partial-Birth Abortions. Kerry has voted three times against banning partial-birth abortion procedures, while Gephardt supports the ban. (H.R. 1833, Roll Call Vote #596: Adopted 54-44: R 45-8; D 9-36, December 7, 1995; H.R. 1833, Roll Call Vote #301: Veto Override Rejected 57-41: R 45-6; D 12-35, September 26, 1996; H.R. 1122, Roll Call Vote #277: Veto Override Rejected 64-36: R 51-4; D 13-32, September 18, 1998; David Kranz, "Abortion Foes Ask Daschle For Vote," [Sioux Falls, SD]Argus Leader, August 28, 2002; Jo Mannies, "Gephardt's Challenger Offers A Clear, And Stark, Choice," St. Louis Post-Dispatch, October 25, 1998)

On Gay Marriage

Kerry Disagrees With Lieberman And Gephardt On Recognition Of Civil Unions. Kerry voted against the "Defense of Marriage Act," while Lieberman and Gephardt voted in favor of it. (H.R. 3396, House Roll Call Vote #316: Passed 342-67: R 224-1; D 118-65, July 12, 1996; H.R. 3396, Senate Roll Call Vote #280: Passed 85-14: R 53-0; D 32-14, September 10, 1996)

On The 1991 Gulf War

Kerry Disagreed With Lieberman On The 1991 Persian Gulf War. Unlike his Senate colleague, Joe Lieberman, Kerry voted against the Persian Gulf War. (S.J. Res. 2, Roll Call Vote #2: Passed 52-47: R 42-2; D 10-45, January 12, 1991)

On Trade Promotion Authority

Kerry Disagrees With Edwards And Gephardt On Trade Promotion Authority. Kerry voted for trade promotion authority, but Edwards and Gephardt voted against it. (H.R. 3009, Senate Roll Call Vote #207: Adopted (thus cleared for the president) 64-34: R 43-5; D 20-29; I 1-0, August 1, 2002; H.R. 3009, House Roll Call Vote #370: Passed 215-212: R 190-27; D 25-183; I 0-2, July 27, 2002)

On Corporate Responsibility

Kerry Disagrees With Gephardt On Shareholders' Rights. In 1995, Kerry voted "to make it harder for shareholders to file suits against chief executives," while Gephardt voted against the legislation and "has supported virtually every effort in recent years to crack down on corporations . . . ." (Jim VandeHei, "Watts Offers Parting Advice To GOP Leaders," The Washington Post, July 15, 2002)

KERRY'S KEY VOTES

107th Congress, 2001 Senate Votes

Against The Bush Tax Cut: Kerry voted against a $1.35 trillion tax cut package to reduce income-tax rates, alleviate the

"marriage penalty" and gradually repeal the estate tax. (H.R. 1836, Roll Call Vote #165: Adopted 62-38: R 50-0; D 12-38, May 23, 2001)

For Reducing Size Of The Tax Cut: Kerry voted to reduce Bush's proposed tax cut ceiling by $448 billion over 10 years. (H. Con. Res. 83, Roll Call Vote #69: Adopted 53-47: R 4-46; D 49-1, April 4, 2001)

Against Ashcroft Nomination: Kerry voted against confirming John Ashcroft to be Attorney General. (Roll Call Vote #8: Confirmed 58-42: R 50-0; D 8-42, February 1, 2001)

106th Congress, 1999-2000 Senate Votes

Against Genetic Privacy: Kerry voted against approving a GOP plan to restrict use of genetic information by health insurers. (Amendment To H.R. 4577, Roll Call Vote #165: Amendment Passed 58-40: R 55-0; D 3-40, June 29, 2000)

For Expanding Hate Crime Protections: Kerry voted to include gender, sexual orientation and disability in federal hate crime protections. (Amendment To S. 2549, Roll Call Vote #136: Amendment Passed 57-42: R 13-41; D 44-1, June 20, 2000)

Against Reducing Taxes: Kerry voted against reducing federal taxes by $792 billion over 10 years. (S. 1429, Roll Call Vote #247: Passed 57-43: R 53-2; D 4-41, July 30, 1999)

105th Congress, 1997-98 Senate Votes

Against Banning Partial-Birth Abortion: Kerry voted against a ban on "partial-birth" abortions. (H.R. 1122, Roll Call Vote #277: Rejected 64-36: R 51-4; D 13-32, September 18, 1998)

Against Banning Cloning: Kerry voted against allowing vote to ban human cloning. (S. 1601, Roll Call Vote #10: Cloture Motion Rejected 42-54: R 42-12; D 0-42, February 11, 1998)

Against Educational Savings Accounts: Kerry voted against allowing a vote to create educational savings accounts. (H.R. 2646, Roll Call Vote #288: Cloture Motion Rejected 56-41: R 54-1; D 2-40, October 30, 1997)

Against Fiscally Responsible Budget: Kerry voted against approving a GOP budget to cut spending and taxes. (H. Con. Res. 84, Roll Call Vote #92: Adopted 78-22: R 41-14; D 37-8, May 23, 1997)

Against Balanced-Budget Amendment: Kerry voted against approving a balanced-budget constitutional amendment. (S.J. Res. 1, Roll Call Vote #24: Rejected 66-34: R 55-0; D 11-34, March 4, 1997)

104th Congress, 1995-96 Senate Votes

Against Balancing The Budget: Kerry voted against a bipartisan plan to balance the budget in seven years. (S. Con. Res. 57, Roll Call Vote #150: Rejected 46-53: R 22-30; D 24-23, May 23, 1996)

Against Tort Reform: Kerry voted against allowing a vote to approve a cap on punitive damages in product liability cases. (H.R. 956, Roll Call Vote #152: Rejected 47-52: R 45-9; D 2-43, May 4, 1995)

103rd Congress, 1993-94 Senate Votes

Against Spending Reductions: Kerry voted to kill an amendment to reduce budget spending by $94 billion. (H.R. 3759, Roll Call Vote #35: Motion To Table Adopted 65-31: R 23-19; D 42-12, February 9, 1994)

For The Largest Tax Increase In American History: Kerry voted to pass Clinton's budget that raised taxes and cut spending. (H.R. 2264, Roll Call Vote #247: Adopted 51-50: R 0-44; D 50-6, With Vice President Gore Voting "Yea," August 6, 1993)

102nd Congress, 1991-92 Senate Votes

Against Stopping Missile Defense Spending Cuts: Kerry voted against a motion to kill an amendment that proposed deeper cuts in SDI spending. (S. 3114, Roll Call Vote #182: Motion To Table Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, August 7, 1992)

Against School Choice: Kerry voted against approving a school-choice pilot program. (S. 2, Roll Call Vote #5: Rejected 36-57: R 33-6; D 3-51, January 23, 1992)

Against Thomas Nomination: Kerry voted against confirming Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court. (Roll Call Vote #220: Confirmed 52-48: R 41-2; D 11-46, October 15, 1991)

For Defense Spending Reductions: Kerry voted to transfer $3.1 billion to domestic programs from Defense department accounts. (H.R. 2707, Roll Call Vote #182: Motion Rejected 28-69 R 3-39; D 25-30, September 10, 1991)

Against Persian Gulf War: Kerry voted against authorizing the use of force in the Persian Gulf. (S.J. Res. 2, Roll Call Vote #2: Passed 52-47: R 42-2; D 10-45, January 12, 1991)

101st Congress, 1989-90 Senate Votes

Against Flag Burning Amendment: Kerry voted against a constitutional amendment on flag desecration. (S.J. Res. 332, Roll Call Vote #128: Rejected 58-42: R 38-7; D 20-35, June 26, 1990)

Against Parental Notification For Minors' Abortions: Kerry voted to kill an amendment requiring parental notice for minors' abortions. (H.R. 5257, Roll Call Vote #266: Motion To Table Rejected 48-48: R 8-34; D 40-14, October 12, 1990)

Against Considering A Capitol Gains Tax Cut: Kerry voted against allowing a vote on a capital gains tax cut. (H.R. 3628, Roll Call Vote #295: Motion To Table Rejected 51-47 (Needed 2/3 Majority): R 45-0; D 6-47, November 14, 1989)

100th Congress, 1987-88 Senate Votes

Against Death Penalty For Drug-Related Murders: Kerry voted against approving the death penalty for drug-related murders. (S. 2455, Roll Call Vote #175: Passed 65-29: R 37-6; D 28-23, June 10, 1988)

Posting HTML

1,511 posted on 09/30/2004 5:59:04 PM PDT by Rome2000 (The ENEMY for Kerry!!!!!)
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To: Keyes2000mt

Jim Lehrer finished opening instructions. We got about 2 minutes left.


1,512 posted on 09/30/2004 5:59:05 PM PDT by Keyes2000mt (Conservative Values in Idaho: http://adamsweb/us/blog)
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To: Petronski

You realize of course that there is no way the media whores will interpret the outcome as a win for Bush, regardless of how badly Skerry spittles forth ... ol' Feckless will be allowed to violate any and all of the rules he chooses to ignore, too.


1,513 posted on 09/30/2004 5:59:10 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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1,514 posted on 09/30/2004 5:59:10 PM PDT by Mr. Mulliner
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To: Right_in_Virginia

What's the over under on Kerry breaking the rules? Heh heh heh...


1,515 posted on 09/30/2004 5:59:19 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservatives)
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To: sweetliberty

1500 posts and they haven't even started yet!


1,516 posted on 09/30/2004 5:59:24 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: WashingtonSource
"Your So Vain"

Dammit. You're.

1,517 posted on 09/30/2004 5:59:29 PM PDT by don-o (Stop Freeploading. Do the right thing and become a Monthly Donor.)
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1,518 posted on 09/30/2004 5:59:32 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: rewrite

Thank God! . . . Amen


1,519 posted on 09/30/2004 5:59:32 PM PDT by MrChips (ARD)
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To: EmilyGeiger

Really, I had a weekend event in NC to go to and I had power Sunday night when I got back to Baldwin Co.


1,520 posted on 09/30/2004 5:59:33 PM PDT by JLS
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