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Fox News to break forged document story
Fox News | 9/9/2004 | Fox News

Posted on 09/09/2004 3:10:33 PM PDT by Semper Paratus

Brit Hume announced story coming up now on National Guard docmunents


TOPICS: Breaking News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; bush; camejo; cbs; cheney; danrather; didbushcollaborate; didbushmeetwithenemy; dubya; edwards; election; forgery; gwb; kerry; kerryswaratrocities; killian; mediabias; nader; napalminthemorning; nationalguard; rather; ratherbiased; seebsnews; wasbushinparis; whatdidbushknow
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To: Cosmo
seriesly hugh!

lol...agree, very seriesly hugh! But just a few minutes ago, MSNBC was still quoting from the forged document. Guess the media wants to do as much damage with this stuff as they can, before they turn around and briefly say hey, it was faked, next story....

881 posted on 09/09/2004 6:15:57 PM PDT by Enlightiator
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To: Cboldt

If you think the ANG had Executive typewriters back in the early 70's then I have some swamp land for sale. I have an executive typewriter in a box that I just dug out -- no "th" on the Executive typewriter. That doesn't even take into consideration that to get an Executive typewriter in those years you had to have special authorization and can guarantee you that NO ONE in the ANG was going to get that. Only General Officer/General Officer equivalent slots at MAJCOMs could get those typewriters -- the one in the Command Surgeon's office was ordered through the Medical Center because if the HQ put it in supply that would have caused an 18-month wait. The General in charge wanted OER's typed on an Executive typewriter as did the other Generals. Some guy in the ANG -- not a chance!


882 posted on 09/09/2004 6:17:50 PM PDT by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Oklahoma is Reagan Country and now Bush Country -- Kerry is DOOMED!)
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To: SolomoninSouthDakota

Me three, and I wonder why my spelling/grammar check always wants to change it.


883 posted on 09/09/2004 6:18:02 PM PDT by Crawdad (I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no class.)
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To: cyncooper
Dick Armey sure was lousy. I hope the GOP doesn't call on him anymore.

He let Ferraro walk all over him and was trying to make the ridiculous argument that Congressmen don't do favors for their wealthy constituents. There is nobody who will believe that one.

There is so much info he could have used for rebuttal, but Armey seemed clueless tonight.

884 posted on 09/09/2004 6:18:22 PM PDT by comebacknewt
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To: starboardlist

" is illegal for a commander to keep personal documents about subordinates. Subordinates have a right to know everything documented about them. If it is worthy of saying, it is worthy of saying on the record."

I THINK I know what you mean.

There should not be an informal file on an officer, to be, for example, floated before members of the promotion board. The decision has to be made on the basis of official records.

OR, as in the present case, informal notations (which is what these CYA MFR's are) should not surface after the fact to besmirch a person. As you say, if it was bad enough, it should have been officially documented and put in the personnel file.

However, what about current management files? Say you have a young trooper, who is a good trooper, and does something a bit stupid (such as performing wheelies with jeeps in the motor pool parking lot when he was on motor pool guard duty). Now, you don't want to ruin the kid; you just want to get his attention. So the NCOs bring him before the CO for counseling. The CO counsels, and puts an MFR in the desk drawer. Not because the CO wants to hurt the kid, but because the CO does NOT want to hurt the kid. After all, he was there, he knows there was a counseling session . . .

It got his attention. Case closed. It did NOT get his attention, and he continues to abuse government property, and the CO refers him to the Battalion commander for an Article 15, recommending a reduction in rank until he knows how to take care of said property. If you can't tell the Battalion Commander, he did wheelies in the motor pool on such and such a date, and I counseled him about it, etc. . . . well, the Battalion Commander will think you are not much of a Co. Commander . . .

And how do you do your officer evaluation reports if you don't keep a file in your desk drawer of their accomplishments during the year? Yes, if it is negative, you should counsel them; if it is positive, you should praise them. But shouldn't you keep notes for reference in completing the evaluation reports so that you have lots of good things to say about your good LTs??

I am speaking of active management files and MFRs, which should NOT have a life of 30+ years . . . (they didn't get purged or thrown out, I guess.) I guess they should have had a file notation: destroy after . . . But there is so much work in command, esp. in the Guard when you (supposedly) do it all one weekend a month. I can see the papers somehow surviving. I cannot see assigning meaning to them OTHER than what the official files contain.



885 posted on 09/09/2004 6:18:26 PM PDT by AMDG&BVMH
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To: NavySEAL F-16

Bingo! There was no small th!


886 posted on 09/09/2004 6:19:26 PM PDT by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Oklahoma is Reagan Country and now Bush Country -- Kerry is DOOMED!)
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LOL. Here is what is now up at the Selectric Museum ...

Sorry, but due to excessive hits, this page is temporarily out of service.
Please check back after the election.

For those who want my opinion...the documents appear to be done in Word, and then copied repeatedly to make them "fuzzy". They use features that were not available on office typewriters the 1970s, specifically the combination of proportional spacing with superscript font. The IBM Executive has proportional spacing, but used fixed type bars. The Selectric has changeable type elements, but fixed spacing (some models could be selected at 10 or 12 pitch, but that's all). The Selectric Composer was not an office typewriter, but apparently did use proportional spacing. These were very expensive machines, used by printing offices, not administrative offices. At least my low opinion of TV news remains intact.

http://www.selectric.org/selectric/
Selectric Typewriter Museum-IBM Selectric Typewriters


887 posted on 09/09/2004 6:19:31 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: comebacknewt

'Dick Armey sure was lousy. I hope the GOP doesn't call on him anymore.'

Haven't seen him for quite a while. Isn't he working for the ACLU now? Always seemed to me to be on the sauce.


888 posted on 09/09/2004 6:21:42 PM PDT by TheLawyerFormerlyKnownAsAl
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To: radiohead

"For some reason I feel compelled to play 'Oh Happy Day.'"

Good choice, however, I'm thinkin'...

Oh Danny Boy
The pipes the pipes
are callin'....

bu-bye Dan

:^)


889 posted on 09/09/2004 6:22:08 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: VRWC_minion

in 19 years of typing memos, letters, etc., for any officer i worked for i NEVER typed my initials at the bottom....that's a civilian thing, not an AF thing.....I just love this whole thing - these guys should at least have gotten an AF civilian administrative person to help with this lie....


890 posted on 09/09/2004 6:22:47 PM PDT by BamaDi
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To: AMDG&BVMH

Nicholson was a bit overboard but I think there is a nugget of truth to the "You want me on that wall, you need me on that wall."...mostly the part about "deep down inside, in places you don't talk about at parties."

I'm no psychologist but I think there is definitely a bit of "rifle envy" going on out there.


891 posted on 09/09/2004 6:23:18 PM PDT by HRoarke (Quick! Vote for Mel Martinez before Reno sends him back to Cuba)
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To: AuH2ORepublican
I think '72 was the year I took my semester of typing. lol Did they teach you to put in a double, single or leave it to the discretion of the typist?
892 posted on 09/09/2004 6:24:04 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: Cboldt
Some DUmmie has posted this doc that pres. Bush released as proof that the docs are not forgeries.


893 posted on 09/09/2004 6:24:53 PM PDT by OSHA (Cheap Shots, Low Blows and Late Hits. Free Delivery. Fast Friendly Service with a Smile!)
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To: UglyinLA

IF, and that's a bit IF, NBC does pull the plug I will be totally shocked but may be consider watching NBC again...I'm so sick of these guys (ABCNBCCBSCNN, etc etc etc) and I just love that they're getting caught pulling the dirty little tricks that they're pulling on the american people every day....Fox is my #1 love!


894 posted on 09/09/2004 6:24:56 PM PDT by BamaDi
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To: Sandy

OooOps! Looks like you beat me to "littlegreenfootballs"


895 posted on 09/09/2004 6:25:21 PM PDT by Cincinna (GREETINGS from the home of the REPUBLICAN CONVENTION)
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To: OSHA

Nicht. I'm always the last to be told everything. :(


896 posted on 09/09/2004 6:26:09 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: rocklobster11
ROFLMAO
897 posted on 09/09/2004 6:26:31 PM PDT by pyx (Freedom of the press is limited to those who own one.)
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To: XBob

There two diffrent typewriters. Selectric used the ball, the Executive did not.


898 posted on 09/09/2004 6:27:47 PM PDT by NavySEAL F-16 (Proud to be a Reagan Republican)
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To: Hi Heels
Aren't there laws preventing journalism/media from trying deliberately to affect an election through biased reporting?

The law gives the media quite a legal loophole. One must prove Malice for the media to be held accountable. In the past, most lawsuits were dropped for a finding of "absent malice". Of course, this time, I think that malice would be pretty easy to demonstrate.

899 posted on 09/09/2004 6:28:01 PM PDT by Truth Table
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To: XBob

An Executive typewriter did not have a ball! It was a regular typewriter with a fancy type for executives. The AF Generals had those in their offices and the rest had selectrics with the little balls and then selectric II typewriters came out but I can guarantee that the ANG would not have been getting anything updated.


900 posted on 09/09/2004 6:29:13 PM PDT by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Oklahoma is Reagan Country and now Bush Country -- Kerry is DOOMED!)
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