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Hawking cracks black hole paradox
NewScientist ^ | 14 July 2004 | Jenny Hogan

Posted on 07/14/2004 12:22:21 PM PDT by PatrickHenry

After nearly 30 years of arguing that a black hole destroys everything that falls into it, Stephen Hawking is saying he was wrong. It seems that black holes may after all allow information within them to escape. Hawking will present his latest finding at a conference in Ireland next week.

The about-turn might cost Hawking, a physicist at the University of Cambridge, an encyclopaedia because of a bet he made in 1997. More importantly, it might solve one of the long-standing puzzles in modern physics, known as the black hole information paradox.

It was Hawking's own work that created the paradox. In 1976, he calculated that once a black hole forms, it starts losing mass by radiating energy. This "Hawking radiation" contains no information about the matter inside the black hole and once the black hole evaporates, all information is lost.

But this conflicts with the laws of quantum physics, which say that such information can never be completely wiped out. Hawking's argument was that the intense gravitational fields of black holes somehow unravel the laws of quantum physics.

Other physicists have tried to chip away at this paradox. Earlier in 2004, Samir Mathur of Ohio State University in Columbus and his colleagues showed that if a black hole is modelled according to string theory - in which the universe is made of tiny, vibrating strings rather than point-like particles - then the black hole becomes a giant tangle of strings. And the Hawking radiation emitted by this "fuzzball" does contain information about the insides of a black hole (New Scientist print edition, 13 March).

Big reputation

Now, it seems that Hawking too has an answer to the conundrum and the physics community is abuzz with the news. Hawking requested at the last minute that he be allowed to present his findings at the 17th International Conference on General Relativity and Gravitation in Dublin, Ireland.

"He sent a note saying 'I have solved the black hole information paradox and I want to talk about it'," says Curt Cutler, a physicist at the Albert Einstein Institute in Golm, Germany, who is chairing the conference's scientific committee. "I haven't seen a preprint [of the paper]. To be quite honest, I went on Hawking's reputation."

Though Hawking has not yet revealed the detailed maths behind his finding, sketchy details have emerged from a seminar Hawking gave at Cambridge. According to Cambridge colleague Gary Gibbons, an expert on the physics of black holes who was at the seminar, Hawking's black holes, unlike classic black holes, do not have a well-defined event horizon that hides everything within them from the outside world.

In essence, his new black holes now never quite become the kind that gobble up everything. Instead, they keep emitting radiation for a long time, and eventually open up to reveal the information within. "It's possible that what he presented in the seminar is a solution," says Gibbons. "But I think you have to say the jury is still out."

Forever hidden

At the conference, Hawking will have an hour on 21 July to make his case. If he succeeds, then, ironically, he will lose a bet that he and theoretical physicist Kip Thorne of the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) in Pasadena made with John Preskill, also of Caltech.

They argued that "information swallowed by a black hole is forever hidden, and can never be revealed".

"Since Stephen has changed his view and now believes that black holes do not destroy information, I expect him [and Kip] to concede the bet," Preskill told New Scientist. The duo are expected to present Preskill with an encyclopaedia of his choice "from which information can be recovered at will".


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: alwaysnewtheory; astronomy; blackholes; cosmology; crevolist; hawking; physics; science; scienceisajoke; theoryjusttheory
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To: petro45acp
The most important question in all this is how will it affect the STARGATE universe? Carter is going to have to adjust her techno-jargon..

...this is serious, w/ the new series, starting Friday night...All those script rewrites. :))

61 posted on 07/14/2004 2:19:12 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :)
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To: StoneColdGOP

"Homer, I find your idea of a donut-shaped universe to be intriguing. I think I'm going to have to steal it." ;-)


62 posted on 07/14/2004 2:21:37 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: Red Badger
I rather enjoyed seeing Tim Robbins freezing instantly......Was the best part of the movie......

hehehe..LOL! I agree. :))

63 posted on 07/14/2004 2:21:42 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :)
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To: Psycho_Bunny; PatrickHenry
Nothing I've ever seen has changed my opinion that if Hawking were in a normal body, he wouldn't enjoy 1/10th the reputation he has now.

Ouch!...Long ago, did PCism rear its ugly head...and Who could do that Math?

64 posted on 07/14/2004 2:29:17 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

Hawking was already good and hot in physics before he became disabled. He would probably be even more famous because his illness has slowed him down, no two ways about it.


65 posted on 07/14/2004 2:33:49 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: PatrickHenry

BTTT


66 posted on 07/14/2004 2:36:36 PM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: Tealc

What's with the hairdos? Pretty fancy for cleaning people.


67 posted on 07/14/2004 2:49:53 PM PDT by CobaltBlue
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To: PatrickHenry

Hmmm. What does the solution look like in loop quantum gravity theory?

It solved the entropy problem simply enough.

Hmmm. Mutter, mutter, mutter, scribble, scribble, scribble, ...


68 posted on 07/14/2004 3:05:03 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: PatrickHenry
"I don't have an event horizon either, yet I manage to lose information all the time. I guess I'm more powerful than a black hole."

Curiously, I've just sent my own application to present a paper at the Dublin Conference on this very topic. My contention is that that there are already two black holes right here on earth. They co-exist in a state of equilibrium up Henry Waxman's nostrils. Every so often random information is emitted from them by way of the nearby "cakehole". Ultimately, when all the information has been exhausted a huge vacuum will be left in the skull area which will then implode from external pressure. Mathematical proof to follow.
69 posted on 07/14/2004 3:13:43 PM PDT by finnigan2
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To: RightWhale
"That is, there was no Big Bang, but a fuzzy fwoop."

I suspect that it is safe to say that there was no Big Bang.

12 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

70 posted on 07/14/2004 3:18:44 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: PatrickHenry
"He sent a note saying 'I have solved the black hole information paradox and I want to talk about it'," says Curt Cutler, a physicist at the Albert Einstein Institute in Golm, Germany, who is chairing the conference's scientific committee. "I haven't seen a preprint [of the paper]. To be quite honest, I went on Hawking's reputation."

At least Hawking isn't trading on his reputation to peddle vitamin C.
71 posted on 07/14/2004 3:18:48 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: Xenalyte
I don't have an event horizon either

You probably don't need one. Even the very hot Sam Neill couldn't save that movie.

I liked that movie. Nthing like Amityville Horror in Neptune's exosphere.

BTW ... look at Sam Neill in Ivanhoe .. older film but he did a great Brian De Bois Guilbert

72 posted on 07/14/2004 3:18:53 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Many a law, many a commandment have I broken, but my word never.)
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.
Whatever slips into a black hole comes out on the other side into another universe.
.
73 posted on 07/14/2004 3:47:40 PM PDT by Jackie
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Interesting -- before seeing your comment I thought "maths" was just a typo in the article.


74 posted on 07/14/2004 3:51:30 PM PDT by 68skylark (.)
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To: Xenalyte

God that was an awful movie.


75 posted on 07/14/2004 3:52:45 PM PDT by 68skylark (.)
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To: PatrickHenry
I loved the Brief History of Time, by Hawking, but was incredibly frustrated when, about a third of the way through teh book, after having barely grasped his concept of Black Holes, I then turn the page and he declares "and this is why I was wrong."

This isn't news. He's been putting this idea forward for years. He may have solved the math, but the idea is a decade (or more) old.

I dearly love the Star Trek: TNG episode where he appeared in a cameo with "Albert Einstein," "Sir Isaac Newton" and Data playing poker. His big line, "Oh Isaac, not the apple story again!" is eternal. It will live beyond the fate of Earth. That's fun.

76 posted on 07/14/2004 4:00:21 PM PDT by Phsstpok (often wrong, but never in doubt)
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To: jslade
"After seeing the title I thought this was referring to Jesse Jackson's mouth."

I must correct you -- no theoretical physicist has postulated that nothing can escape Jesse's mouth, but they have proven that nothing intelligent can escape his mouth.

77 posted on 07/14/2004 4:19:46 PM PDT by tom h (.)
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To: PatrickHenry

excessively leaky black hole placemarker


78 posted on 07/14/2004 5:29:28 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: 68skylark; Centurion2000; Sloth; Notforprophet
God that was an awful movie.

My theory is that the guys, like Xena's Guy, like it, and women don't. Sky, are you by any chance a chick?
79 posted on 07/14/2004 6:05:25 PM PDT by Xenalyte (I'm thinkin' of a master plan . . .)
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To: Xenalyte

Well, I'm a guy and I thought it sucked.


80 posted on 07/14/2004 6:17:08 PM PDT by Sloth (We have to support RINOs like Specter; their states are too liberal to elect someone like Santorum.)
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