Posted on 06/06/2004 10:00:25 AM PDT by blam
Satellite images 'show Atlantis'
By Paul Rincon
BBC News Online science staff
The imagery may show the former locations of major buildings and rings
A scientist says he may have found remains of the lost city of Atlantis. Satellite photos of southern Spain reveal features on the ground appearing to match descriptions made by Greek scholar Plato of the fabled utopia.
Dr Rainer Kuehne thinks the "island" of Atlantis simply referred to a region of the southern Spanish coast destroyed by a flood between 800 BC and 500 BC.
The research has been reported as an ongoing project in the online edition of the journal Antiquity.
We have in the photos concentric rings just as Plato described
Dr Rainer Kuehne, University of Wuppertal Satellite photos of a salt marsh region known as Marisma de Hinojos near the city of Cadiz show two rectangular structures in the mud and parts of concentric rings that may once have surrounded them.
"Plato wrote of an island of five stades (925m) diameter that was surrounded by several circular structures - concentric rings - some consisting of Earth and the others of water. We have in the photos concentric rings just as Plato described," Dr Kuehne told BBC News Online.
Dr Kuehne, of the University of Wuppertal in Germany, believes the rectangular features could be the remains of a "silver" temple devoted to the sea god Poseidon and a "golden" temple devoted to Cleito and Poseidon - all described in Plato's dialogue Critias.
Temples of the sea god
The sizes of the "island" and its rings in the satellite image are slightly larger than those described by Plato. There are two possible explanations for this, says Dr Kuehne.
First, Plato may have underplayed the size of Atlantis. Secondly, the ancient unit of measurement used by Plato - the stade - may have been 20% larger than traditionally assumed.
It is claimed that concentric rings surround the temple site
If the latter is true, one of the rectangular features on the "island" matches almost exactly the dimensions given by Plato for the temple of Poseidon.
The features were originally spotted by Werner Wickboldt, a lecturer and Atlantis enthusiast who studied photographs from across the Mediterranean for signs of the city described by Plato.
"This is the only place that seems to fit [Plato's] description," he told BBC News Online.
Mr Wickboldt added that the Greeks might have confused an Egyptian word referring to a coastline with one meaning "island" during transmission of the Atlantis story.
Commenting on the satellite image showing the two "temples", Tony Wilkinson, an expert in the use of remote sensing in archaeology at the University of Edinburgh, UK, told BBC News Online: "A lot of the problems come with interpretations. I can see something there and I could imagine that one could interpret it in various ways. But you've got several leaps of faith here.
Metal trading
"We use the imagery to recognise certain types of imprint on the ground and then do [in the field] verification on them. Based on what we see on the ground we make an interpretation.
"What we need here is a date range. Otherwise, you're just dealing with morphology. But the [features] are interesting."
The fabled utopia of Atlantis has captured the imagination of scholars for centuries. The earliest known records of this mythical land appear in Plato's dialogues Critias and Timaios.
This reconstruction of the city of Atlantis is based on Plato's description
His depiction of a land of fabulous wealth, advanced civilisation and natural beauty has spurred many adventurers to seek out its location.
One recent theory equates Atlantis with Spartel Island, a mud shoal in the straits of Gibraltar that sank into the sea 11,000 years ago.
Plato described Atlantis as having a "plain". Dr Kuehne said this might be the plain that extends today from Spain's southern coast up to the city of Seville. The high mountains described by the Greek scholar could be the Sierra Morena and Sierra Nevada.
"Plato also wrote that Atlantis is rich in copper and other metals. Copper is found in abundance in the mines of the Sierra Morena," Dr Kuehne explained.
The rectangles: What interpretation can be put on the satellite images?
Dr Kuehne noticed that the war between Atlantis and the eastern Mediterranean described in Plato's writings closely resembled attacks on Egypt, Cyprus and the Levant during the 12th Century BC by mysterious raiders known as the Sea People.
As a result, he proposes that the Atlanteans and the Sea People were in fact one and the same.
This dating would equate the city and society of Atlantis with either the Iron Age Tartessos culture of southern Spain or another, unknown, Bronze Age culture. A link between Atlantis and Tartessos was first proposed in the early 20th Century.
Dr Kuehne said he hoped to attract interest from archaeologists to excavate the site. But this may be tricky. The features in the satellite photo are located within Spain's Donana national park.
BUMP!
Looks like a job for Richard C. Hoagland.
Yeah hehehe... last night Art was in rare form. He's a libertarian dontcha know. It was pretty entertaining.
The-RA! The-RA! The-RA!
"Way down below the ocean where I wanna be she may be,
My antediluvian baby, oh yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah"
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Go down to Tracks of Disc 1, click on number 8!
First, Plato may have underplayed the size of Atlantis. Secondly, the ancient unit of measurement used by Plato - the stade - may have been 20% larger than traditionally assumed.
If the latter is true, one of the rectangular features on the "island" matches almost exactly the dimensions given by Plato for the temple of Poseidon.
Oh, please. In other words, the sizes don't match up.
Mr Wickboldt added that the Greeks might have confused an Egyptian word referring to a coastline with one meaning "island" during transmission of the Atlantis story.
In other words, this place is not the island described by Plato.
Dr Rainer Kuehne thinks the "island" of Atlantis simply referred to a region of the southern Spanish coast destroyed by a flood between 800 BC and 500 BC.
In other words, about 9,000 years too late for this to be Plato's Atlantis.
In order for Atlantis bugs to make their theories "work," they always have to assume that Plato got almost everything wrong. Which means that they are not talking about the land described by Plato.
The fabled utopia of Atlantis has captured the imagination of scholars for centuries. The earliest known records of this mythical land appear in Plato's dialogues Critias and Timaios.
Nonsensical raving from the BBC. This is like saying that "the earliest known records of the mythical land of Oceania appear in Orwell's 1984," or that "the earliest known records of the mythical Ebenezer Scrooge appear in Dickens's A Christmas Carol."
Plato made Atlantis up. That's why there is no record of an Atlantis story in Greek mythology. It was a fictional creation.
It would be reasonable to assume that 11,000 years ago there were coastal settlements all over the world.
All these would now be 100 feet or so below sea level (depending on local conditions). There should be hundreds of 'Atlantis' settlements around the Old World.
And older settlements would be at deeper levels.
Hoaxie?! Nah. Linda Moulton-Howe covers that type of stuff.
Nah. There is an Atlantis. It was destroyed with all the havoc at the end of the Ice Age...when the Mediterranean was partially empty and the rising water collapsed the dam at Gilbralter and reflooded the Mediterranean ...and, a couple thousand years later flooded the Black Sea, Noah's Flood?
All you wrote may be true, but it is also possible that a place such as described in this article was the basis for the story Plato wrote.
Yeah, it is just another Utopia. The perfect city with the perfect gov't. Western mythology of the Golden Age.
The problem here is that there is no evidence of an "Atlantis myth" which predated Plato. With no evidence that Plato had ever heard of this Spanish flood, there is no reason to postulate a connection.
Another problem is that any disaster-stricken city which inspired Plato to create Atlantis would still not really be Atlantis, any more than Dr. Joseph Bell was Sherlock Holmes. In fact, it would likely have far less in common with Plato's fictional city than Bell did with Conan Doyle's fictional detective. It would certainly not be the advanced civilization which Plato portrayed.
If Plato's inspiration for Atlantis could be identified, that would be a mildly interesting literary and historical tidbit, but nothing more.
Verrrrrry interesting ping and bttt
Are these the same guys who claimed they saw the Great Wall from sat imagery?!
Plato was not stupid, and he knew what an island was. An island is an island. Kuehne sounds like he's trying to make a name for himself. I've got news for him - Spain is not an island! But nice try.
Its was Bushes fault
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