[NYer]

Additional Resources:

SHROUD OF TURIN
OFFICIAL SHROUD SITE
SHROUD STORY - Guidt to Facts

[Support Free Republic]

Rank	Location	Receipts	Donors/Avg		Freepers/Avg		Monthlies
20	Wisconsin	260.00	7	37.14			173.00	11

Thanks for donating to Free Republic!

Move your locale up the leaderboard!

[NYer]

In the 1930's, French Shroud scholar Paul Vignon described a series of common characteristics visible in many early artistic depictions of Jesus. The Vignon marking, as they are known, all appear on the Shroud suggesting that it is the source of later pictures of Jesus.   A square U-shape  between the eyebrows.  A downward pointing triangle or V-shape just below the U-shape, on the bridge of the nose. Two wisps of hair going downward and then to the right. A raised right eyebrow.  Large, seemingly "owlish" eyes. This may be the result of coins placed over the eyes. An accent on the left cheek and an accent on the right cheek that is somewhat lower. A forked beard. Dr. Whanger (see below) has suggested that this may the result of a chin band tied around the head to keep the mouth closed. An enlarged left nostril.  An accent line below the nose and a dark line just below the lower lip.  A gap in the beard below the lower lip.  Hair on one side of the head that is shorter than on the other side. Christ Pantocrator, c. 1100 from dome of Church at Daphni, near Athens. Note U at bridge of nose, triangle on nose, raised right eyebrow, uneven hair, owlish eyes.

Catholic Ping - let me know if you want on/off this list

[ClearCase_guy]

For the next 1,200 years it was kept hidden in the Iraqi city, brought out only for religious festivals. In 944 it is thought to have turned up in Constantinople, Turkey

Editor! Timeline trouble in Aisle 5!

[Flightdeck]

"Mark Guscin, of the British Society for the Turin Shroud, says: "The discovery of the stitching along with doubt about the carbon-dating all add to the mountain of evidence suggesting this was probably the shroud Jesus was buried in."

Well, that's quite a stretch. I'd like to believe that, but isn't it possible, nay likely, that a given shroud from a given time period was used to bury someone other than Jesus?

[RoughDobermann]

FRESH CLUE SHOWS TURIN SHROUD MAY BE GENUINE BURIAL CLOTH OF CHRIST

How?

[Badeye]

Until something uncontrovertable comes along, I will remain firmly on the side of those that say its the longest running hoax in history.

[tiamat]

Interesting. this stuff fascinates me.

Okay. I may have just had a brain-storm.

Jesus is out of the House of David, right?

Are there any Jews living today that can trace their lineage that far back?

if a DNA sample could be gotten from the Shroud, and if a living decendant could be found to compare it to.....Maybe we could find out for sure?

[mfulstone]

The shroud devotees should read their bibles. Particularly John 20: 6-7

Obviously, that was NOT Jesus' shroud.

[Former Fetus]

The Shroud of Turin Research Project spent 120 hours examining the cloth in minute detail but was unable to explain how the image had got there. Barrie Schwortz, the project's photographer, says: "We did absolutely every test there was to try to find out how that image had got there.

"We used X-rays, ultra-violet light, spectral imaging and photographed every inch of it in the most minute detail, but we still couldn't come up with any answers.

"We weren't a bunch of amateurs. We had scientists who had worked on the first atomic bomb and the space programme, yet we still couldn't say how the image got there. The only things we could say was what it isn't: that it isn't a photograph and it wasn't a painting.

I was a graduate student in Chemistry when I attended the annual American Chemical Society convention and heard the speaker present the results from the studies of the shroud. I don't remember the name of the scientist who gave the talk, but I do remember that he introduced himself as an atheist who had joined the team in order to prove the shroud was a fake. After presenting, in detail, the scientific evidence for the authenticity of the shroud, he came to the question of what caused the image. He stood there and stated that Jesus of Nazareth, or whoever had been buried in that shroud, had emitted some kind of energy unknown to us that was responsible for the image. "Ladies and gentlemen", he added, "scientific honesty compels me to say that this man was raised from the dead!" There was no clapping at the end of his presentation, you could have heard the proverbial pin fall on the floor.

[ConservativeDude]

"Ian Wilson, co-author of The Turin Shroud: Unshrouding The Mystery"

I am fascinated that Ian Wilson is quoted on the "pro" side. He is a very serious skeptic of all things "religious". He is tough-minded. But, all in all, I have always thought, fair( for a non-believer). For him to go on the record like this is, well, interesting.

[aruanan]

The Turin Shroud has been either worshipped as divine proof that Christ was resurrected from the grave or dismissed as a fraud created by medieval forgers.

Stupid either/or.

"Scientists have been happy to dismiss it as a fake, but they have never been able to answer the central question of how the image of that man got on to the cloth."

More accurately, "Scientists who are devotees of the pseudo-science known as naturalism have been happy to dismiss it as a fake...."

[tallhappy]

World: Asia-Pacific
Birthday Buddha's tooth in Hong Kong

First class: The tooth arrives in Hong Kong

By Duncan Hewitt in Beijing

Jill McGivering reports for the BBC: "The tooth is one of only two which survived the cremation"

A tooth relic believed by Buddhists to be that of the Lord Buddha has arrived in Hong Kong where a special ceremony is to be held on Saturday to mark Buddha's birthday.

Senior officials from China accompanied the relic on a special flight from Beijing where it is normally kept out of sight in a pagoda.

High security surrounded the arrival

The relic, one of the holiest in Buddhism, is believed to have been found among the remains of the Buddha after his cremation.

A spokesman for China's Buddhist Association said it was being sent to Hong Kong at the request of the region's Buddhist community.

On Saturday it will be worshipped at a ceremony in a Hong Kong stadium to mark Buddha's birthday, which is being celebrated for the first time as a public holiday in Hong Kong.

Chief Executive Tung Chee-hwa will be among dignatories in attendance.

China says the tooth is one of only two in existence, with the other in Sri Lanka.

The relic is one of the holiest in Buddhism

A third relic in the possession of a Tibetan monk caused great excitement when moved to Taiwan last year, but was angrily denounced by Chinese officials as a false tooth.

Beijing, which claims Taiwan as part of its territory, said there was no Buddhist scripture to prove its authenticity - a claim rejected as irrelevant by Taiwanese Buddhist leaders.

Sensitivity over the issue reflects China's desire to emphasise its influence over Chinese schools of Buddhism.

Beijing last year embarked on celebrations marking 2,000 years of Buddhism in China.

And senior Chinese religious officials will be in Hong Kong for the ceremony to welcome the tooth, which will be on display for a week.

[Future Snake Eater]

Timely ping

[Adder]

"This is not a miracle," he says. "It's a physical object, so there has to be a scientific explanation. With the right conditions, it could happen to anyone. We could all make our own Turin Shroud."


Go right ahead, Dr....let us know when you produce one.

[sneakers]

bump!

[RightOnline]

As some of you may know, I have attended several presentations on the Shroud that were given by Dr. Tom D'Muhalla here in Raleigh. Tom was the leader of the original STURP team that analyzed the Shroud in 1978 and has stayed extremely active in Shroud research, etc. ever since. His most recent presentation was given just a couple of weeks ago.

What he said this time is what he has told us in previous presentations. The carbon dating fiasco was a joke for MANY reasons. Example: when the Turin diocese agreed to allow a sample to be taken for carbon dating, the scientific team said "fine..........but whatever you do, do NOT take the sample from this one area on the Shroud; it's clearly a piece that was added much later and does not match the rest of the Shroud". Well, boys and girls.......guess where the sample was taken from? You got it; the ONE place on the Shroud that they explicitly said NOT to touch.

As usual, his presentation was fascinating and he alluded strongly to some very new research that will "set the world on its ear".

Here's a link to a thread from one of his previous presentations:

Shroud of Turin Presentation Update

[Hammerhead]

If Jesus rose again after 3 days, then how is that long enough to make a 2000 yearl old impression in cloth????

[Cicero]

The Catholic Church takes no official position as to whether or not the Shroud is genuine. I think they have taken the usual position for such apparent miracles, that it's permissible for the faithful to regard it as real but it's not required for them to do so.

The 1988 carbon dating tests were almost certainly a hoax perpetrated by a couple of atheistic scientists who were determined to "prove" that the Shroud was not genuine.

There's no way to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is genuine. But the tests continue to suggest that it comes from the Holy Land and dates to about the time of the Crucifixion.

On top of that, if it's not genuine, it's very, very difficult to suggest how on earth medieval artisans could have faked it. Personally, I think it's real, but it's not a matter of faith.

[Preachin']

Sadly, many people trust more in the authenticity of the shroud, than in Christ Himself.

[ICE-FLYER]

If it was the face of Christ on the cloth you would not be able to tell what He looked like. The scripture was clear that His face was so severly beaten that you could not tell who He was.

So much for the theory. I come down on the side of hoax. Its no more holy than my bed sheets.