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To: NYer
If Jesus rose again after 3 days, then how is that long enough to make a 2000 yearl old impression in cloth????


41 posted on 04/05/2004 8:12:18 AM PDT by Hammerhead
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To: Hammerhead
"If Jesus rose again after 3 days, then how is that long enough to make a 2000 yearl old impression in cloth????"

*smirk*

Okay, let me get this straight... you're willing to stipulate to the possibility of rising from the dead after 3 days... but you're simply -not- willing to go so far as to believe that such an event could leave an image on cloth?

Okaaaaay...

Qwinn
80 posted on 04/05/2004 9:04:47 AM PDT by Qwinn
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To: Hammerhead
Correct.

If you're a true Freeper, you'll keep an open mind.

As a scientist, these are the following reasons to be compelled and excited by the Shroud of Turin:

I dare you to contemplate them with an open mind.

A forger would have a nearly impossible task!

1. The Shroud is a photographic NEGATIVE image.

A millennium or two before photography was invented, this image lay in wait for mankind to discover. Secondo Pio, commissioned to photograph the Shroud, fell on his knees in the darkroom when he looked at a detailed face of a man for the first time in history around 1900.

2. The image has 3D qualities.

That's right, it's a 3D image, a millennium before such a concept was understood let alone reproducible.

Our forger is becoming quite the unique fellow!

3. The Shroud has an image that appears as partly a projection, and partly a contact transfer.

Strange indeed. It has orthogonal image qualities as if an image were projecting perpindicular through the cloth, but with an intensity proportional to the distance from the cloth of the hypothetical body. That is, the image is stronger where a body would have been closer, and faded where it would have been further away. Also, there are direct transfer elements where a body may have made contact including human blood.

4. No one to this day can explain what scientific phenomenon could make such an image on cloth.

Our forger is becoming more and more unique.

5. The image contains anatomical elements of the crucifixion process only recently discovered, and that were completely unknown at the time of its discovery and emergence in modern history.

The forger would require knowledge of crucifixion unknown in his era.

6. Iconographic evidence indicates other images of Christ centuries earlier than the forgery date have elements derived from the Shroud.

This one is quite intriguing. One example is a square on the forehead that appears in other representations of Christ centuries earlier. You see, the Shroud has an element in the cloth structure that looks like a square. This was not consciously forged, it is exists in the Shroud because it is a defect in the cloth itself. Other representations of Christ with a square on the forehead are more likely imitative of the original Shroud than the other way around.

7. The state of the art of drawing and painting at the time of its purported forgery was far inferior than the quality of the image on the Shroud.

Our forger is having quite a time of it, isn't he?

If you as a scientist believe it is a forgery, congratulations!

You must therefore conclude that your forger created an image by a process which to-date is unknown, as a photographic negative image so that it would be unappreciated by his peers, in a drawing style and quality that was centuries more advanced than his best contemporaries, with anatomical knowledge of crucifixion unknown in his era, with unprecedented access to worldwide representations of Christ so that he would embed defects and other qualities in the materials and image.

I present to you an alternative answer.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you, The Lord Jesus Christ.

235 posted on 04/05/2004 1:24:27 PM PDT by Stallone (Guess who Al Qaeda wants to be President?)
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To: Hammerhead
The idea is that at the instant of resurrection (a second, a millisecond, maybe less) some kind of energy emanated from the body and "burned" the image onto the shroud. One thing I recall from reading about this years ago is that when they checked the fibers containing the actual image with a microscope they found that the discoloration only reached a depth of a couple molecules(!). One of the main problems faced by those determined to disprove the shroud's authenticity is that so far no one has been able to find a pigment that makes the image (although I also recall that some ochre was found in a few but not all parts of the image indicating somebody at some time tried to "enhance" it) or explain what happened to the fibers.
244 posted on 04/05/2004 1:44:04 PM PDT by katana (We all have it coming, kid.)
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