Romans In Brazil During The Second Third Century?

Mysterious Earth ^

[blam]

Romans in Brazil During the Second or Third Century?

Ex-marine and underwater explorer/archaeologist/treasure-hunter Robert Marx states rather flatly:

Amongst my most notable discover[ies] was that of a 2nd century BC Roman shipwreck in the Bay of Guanabara, near Rio de Janeiro. This is a discovery that has received little to no examination, much less validation, from the realm of mainstream archaeology, no doubt in part because Marx is not a Ph.D. archaeologist. Scouring the web for more information about this finding, I did find a reference to the discovery in an article from Dr. Elizabeth Lyding Will, an expert on Roman amphoras (clay vessels used to store and ship goods during the Roman era). Dr. Will apparently has a piece of an amphora recovered from Marx's Brazil discovery. Of it, she says:

The highly publicized amphoras Robert Marx found in the ship are in fact similar in shape to jars produced in kilns at Kouass, on the west coast of Morocco. The Rio jars look to be late versions of those jars, perhaps datable to the third century A.D. I have a large piece of one of the Rio jars, but no labs I have consulted have any clay similar in composition. So the edges of the earth for Rome, beyond India and Scotland and eastern Europe, remain shrouded in mystery. Information about this find is practically non existent. Gary Fretz's synopsis of the "whole story" suggests that the find has been suppressed by the Brazilian government:

At the time the amphorae were confirmed to be "Roman", the large Italian faction in Brazil were extremely excited about this news. The Italian ambassador to Brazil notified the Brazilian government that, since the Romans were the first to "discover" Brazil, then all Italian immigrants should be granted immediate citizenship. There are a large number of Italian immigrants in Brazil and the government has created a tedious and costly citizenship application procedure for Italians that does not apply to Portuguese immigrants. The Brazilian government would not give in and the Italians in Brazil staged demonstrations. In response, the Brazilian government ordered all civilians off the recovery project and censored further news about the wreck hoping to diffuse the civil unrest. Finally, I've also seen mention of the following written works, which I've yet to dig up: Marx R.F., 1984 , Romans in Rio? [see Santarelli A. Mondo Sommerso 270 1983:252-3. Oceans, 17.4: 18-21.] The Romans in Rio book (?) is not among the works of Robert Marx as listed at Amazon.

[ValerieUSA]

I thought it was railroads...

[MHGinTN]

I thought the LDS had already claimed those blonde 'Indians'.

[Publius6961]

Hmmmmmmm.
Sounds like a new entry for the next edition of Forbidden Archeology.

[breakem]

Thos frisky Romans must have come for Carnivale!

[blam]

"I thought the LDS had already claimed those blonde 'Indians'."

Don't know. I believe these folks were exiled miners that were employed by King Solomon.

[Question_Assumptions]

It wouldn't surprise me to find a Roman shipwreck in the Americas because it isn't necessarily evidence of trade. It could be a single lost ship or even a ship that was carried, empty, across the ocean only to eventually sink. I've read that one of the reasons why Columbus thought he could sail across the Atlantic directly to China was that bodies of Asian-looking "Eskimos"/Innuit would wash up on the shores of Ireland and other parts of Europe from accidents far to the North and West. Things that float get shuffled around.

More interesting would be evidence that they were moored or finding more than one or two together.

[blam]

I read that some time after the destruction of Carthage that it was reported that Plutarch spoke that he had read (from 'writings' in the ruins) that the Carthagenians(sp) had traded with nations across the Atlantic. Then we have the 'cocaine mummies' and of course, Solon's tales of Atlantis, as related to him by the Egyptian high priests, etc. I believe there was ancient contact between Asia, Europe, the Americas and Africa. ...and that this contact was broken numerous times (and memory of this contact was forgotten) due to worldwide catastrophies, famine and/or plagues. This is/could be why we have 'exiled' populations of humans of different races all over the globe.

[Centurion2000]

interesting

[blam]

"Tiny Roman Bust Shows Pre-Columbian Contact With Mexico (with picture) "

Thanks, I've read references to this statue a number of times.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

There is such a group in northern Japan.

[blam]

This is a statue found in an Olmec (1200BC) site being excavated by archaeologists in Mexico

[blam]

"There is such a group in northern Japan."

Yup, those are the Ainu (Kennewick Mans relatives) and the Jomon were before them. I saw a program the other night on the Samurai and the most honored Samurai in history was over six feet tall, he is also the one who began the practice of Harakiri.

There is a thought out there that the original Samurai were the Ainu, taller, bigger, hairy and light skinned. Some even say the Japanese practice of 'white face' is an emulation of these ancient 'royal' Samurai.

[Rockpile]

Blam, as I recall, Fate magazine ran a story about Robert Marx diving on this Roman wreck in an edition back around about 1982.

I've read three of Marx' books. "Shipwrecks in the Americas" and "The Capture of the Treasure Fleet" were excellent I thought. The one he wrote in the 60s about the Spanish Armada was a real stinker however :}

He must be getting kind of long in the tooth now--ahemmm. I think he was one of the team that worked the Port Royal sunken seaport site years in the 60s.

[Ruth A.]

Bump for easy finding later. Fascinating.

[farmfriend]

Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.

[farmfriend]

Thanks for the heads up.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Here's the snopes link for that "urban legend" about the Space Shuttle, railroad gauges and chariot wheels. Hope it's helpful.

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.htm

Blam and farmfriend, thanks for the GGG posts and bumps.

[Cacique]

bttfl

[Focault's Pendulum]

Just short note to thank both of you for including me on the ping list. I take much enjoyment reading this sort of stuff. Kudos to you blam...for finding such stimulating articles....and special thanks to you farmfriend for maintaining the list.

I was in a Barnes and Noble bookstore yesterday perusing the science section of their magazine rack. .....I recognized one of the cover pieces as something you had posted on. I thought out loud..."BLAM!!!"

I was immediately surrounded by Mall Security...asking me what I thought I was doing.

I was so in awe...all I could do was point at the rack...(which by that time unfortunately was blocked by a well endowed redhead)
....and shouted..with a slight drool from the lower right side of my lip..."BLAM!!!...BLAM!!!...BLAM!!!"

This was very soon relagated to an abbreviated..... "BLA...BLA...BLA"...due to the multiple stranglehold that three of the more enthusiastic "I really could have passed the policeman's test, but I found Mall Security a more rewarding career ,two way radio packing and, well vested in giving directions to the restroom", personell had on my throat.

After a quick fifteen minute discussion...which took about an hour an a half....they all agreed that I was not a threat to the strucural integrity of the Mall...they went off in search of the redhead.

It was exiting the store that I noticed the Al Franken book prominently displayed in the front on the "Best Seller" Rack..that's when my problems really started..........................................................

[AmericanVictory]

And they, after all, were just pursuing the Carthaginians in order to stamp them out.