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Universal Health Care! Are Canadians Stupid?
geocities.com ^ | 2000 | Jack Stewart

Posted on 11/06/2003 8:32:06 AM PST by joseph_hardesty

http://www.geocities.com/stewjackmail/pdf/uhc-canus.pdf

Universal Health Care!

Are Canadians Stupid?

by Jack Stewart, January 2000

(full permission for nonprofit distribution)

IT’S YOUR MONEY!

Government spending for health care in Canada consumes 6.9 percent of the economy (GDP). However, government spending for health care in the United States consumes only 6.6 percent of the economy. *[1]

Before deciding that the U.S. has done a slightly better job of reining in "big government" than Canada, we should examine what each country gets for its money!

1. Government health spending includes costs for a Public Health Service in both countries.

2. In the United States, government health spending also pays for health insurance that primarily covers individual hospital and doctor costs with three government programs; Medicare, Medicaid, and military health benefits. These three programs provide health care through public health spending to about 30% of our population. *[2]

3. In Canada, government health spending also pays for health insurance that primarily covers individual hospital and doctor costs. However, Canada has only one government health insurance program called Universal Health Care. This government program provides health care through public health spending to essentially 100% of the population. *[3] Before I respond to people who are thinking, "What's the catch?" or "You can't get something for nothing.": I want to deal with the people who didn't even understand what I just said. What I just said was, "In Canada government health programs provide health insurance to 100 percent of their population at only a slightly greater economic cost, than government health programs in the United States, but the U.S. programs only insure about 30 percent of our population!"

I can make a slightly simpler statement. Because Canadian Universal Health Care, unlike Medicare in the United States, has; no deductibles, no coinsurance, and only Alberta and British Columbia charge premiums, the following statement is probably accurate. *[4]

Canada, insures 100% of its population using a smaller percentage of its economic resources, than the United States uses to insure 30% of its population!

WHAT'S THE CATCH?

Some people may think that the catch is that the Canadian Universal Health Care system supplies poor service. I will try to provide some significant information dealing with the quality of the Canadian health care system in this section.

Public Opinion

I have heard that Rush Limbaugh has said that "Many Canadians prefer our health care system to theirs." He apparently thought that Canadians' opinions were worth something. I think that a Gallup poll, published in "The Toronto Star" on September 13, 1993, can provide a more accurate understanding of Canadian opinion. 96% of Canadians prefer their own health care system. 2% of Canadians have no opinion.

2% of Canadians prefer the U.S. health care system. While I agree that, since there are 27 million Canadians, even 2% could be considered "many" Canadians, I think the vaster numbers represented by 96% are more significant!

Life Expectancy at Birth

The vital statistic called, “life expectancy at birth," is not a prediction of the future! It is simply the average age of death, for any specific year, after adjusting for age distribution. Adjusting for age distribution simplifies comparisons between different nations, and different years within the same nation. *[5]

Please remember that age distribution is only one of many factors, in addition to health care, that influences life expectancy, such as environment, life style, public safety, and maybe genetics.

Life Expectancy at Birth

United States Canada

1991 75.50 yrs 77.95 yrs

1995 75.79 78.56

1998 76.13 79.16

These years appear to be representative. If you want more, my source was the internet, U.S. Bureau of the Census, "International Data Base". Safety of Surgery and Medical Care Surgery and medical care may be safer in Canada than in the United States. According to data collected by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), in 1989 the incidence of abnormal reactions and misadventures during medical care in Canada was just half that of the U.S. *[6]

Page 2 of 8

Infant Mortality Rate The Infant Mortality Rate (IMR) is just a measure of the number of infants that die within a year of birth. I was able to find comparative data for both Canada and the U.S. prior to the development of the Canadian Universal Health System. Hospital insurance was initiated in most provinces over a period of a few years, and was in place in all provinces by 1961. Medical (Doctors) insurance was started in the early 1970's and in all provinces by the late 1970's.

IMR per 1,000 births

United States Canada

1950 29.2- 40.7-

1953 27.9- 35.9-

1964 25.2- 26.7-

1983 11.20 08.52

1988 10.00 7.60

1995 7.52 5.92

1998 6.44 5.59

Please remember that for life expectancy rates high numbers are good and for infant mortality rates low numbers are good. My source was the Internet, U.S. Bureau of the Census, "International Data Base". Data for the earlier years come from various "Statistical Abstracts of the United States". Years of Disability Free Life, (Late 70's) both sexes *[7]

United States average 60 years per person

Canada average 66 years per person

Diseases of the Circulatory System, including those of the heart. *[8]

Years of Potential Life Lost per 100,000 people (1989)

United States Canada

Males (under 65) 1250 1020

Females (under 65) 538 320

While the above statistics don't totally prove anything about the quality of the Canadian health care system, I would want to see some strong evidence before I considered it to be of poor quality.

Page 3 of 8

IMPOSSIBLE! YOU CAN'T GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING!

It's not impossible! I agree that you can't get something for nothing, but human effort can increase efficiency and productivity. Canadians do this by partially substituting democratic planning to replace an unregulated free-market system. Anyone, who has studied the issue, knows that unregulated markets can be very inefficient, and unproductive. The previous section of this article, called “What’s the Catch?”, explored, to some extent, the productivity, defined as the delivery of useful services, of the U.S. and Canadian systems. This section will primarily examine the efficiency of both systems.

Hospital Overhead

First: In the United States, fifteen hundred different insurance companies, along with Medicaid, Medicare, and employer-provided plans, pay hospitals, doctors, and laboratories. This multi-payer structure has spawned a complex accounting system. Each "payer"; that is - an insurance company, or government agency, has its own rules and documentation requirements, and tries to shift costs onto other payers.

The result is a stifling administrative burden for American medical professionals and hospitals, and the creation of an army of accountants and administrators to sift through billing paperwork. *[9]

Detailed Medicare records for 6,400 hospitals nationwide, obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, shows that in 1990, 24.8 percent of all hospital spending in the United States went to administration. Canadian hospitals spend little on billing and internal cost tracking, and between 9 and 11 percent of their total budgets on administration, less than half of U.S. spending. *[10]

Physicians' Office Overhead

There are no precise figures for the time and expense, devoted to administration, in physicians' offices. According to one estimate, U.S. doctors averaged spending $330 (US) per capita on billing and office expenses in 1993, or more than 2.3 times the $142 (US) spent by Canadian doctors. *[11] Nearly half of all people employed in U.S. doctors' offices (47 percent) are clerical and secretarial. Much of their time goes to tasks that do not exist in Canada. *[12]

Canadian doctors do not have to keep different kinds of records in their offices for different payers. Nor do they have to send separate bills to individual patients. Like the Canadian hospitals, Canadian doctors get paid for their medically necessary services by a public agency and only have that single agency to deal with for payment. They waste no administrative effort in doctors' offices chasing after patients or their insurance companies for payment. They require no prior approval when ordering or providing specific health care services. No time is wasted discussing with patients the potential costs of treatments and whether they can meet them.

In Canada in 1990 there was one practicing physician for every 448 people. This ratio differed little from that in the United States, where there was a practicing physician for every 432 people. However, the Canadian doctors saw more patients. The average number of physician contacts per person that year was 6.9, compared to 5.5 in the United States. *[13]

Page 4 of 8

Competition vs. Efficiency

The market theory of supply and demand rests on the assumption of readily available choices and information. For the most part, people do not have a choice about when, if, where, or how to get sick or become disabled. After a car accident or a breast cancer diagnosis, few are in a position to shop around, and if they are, seldom have the expertise required to make the appropriate choice. Although competition is frequently viewed as a way of increasing efficiency, it often leads to unnecessary duplication and inefficiency. Competition encourages investment in expensive, sophisticated technologies designed to attract "customers." A 1990 study has demonstrated that hospital costs are higher in areas with more competition. *[14]

As an example, Boston's Massachusetts General Hospital recently opened a new obstetrical service, despite being within three miles of five well-established maternity programs with surplus beds. *[15]

In 1990, Canada had significantly more hospital beds for their population, (6.7 per 1,000 vs. 5.0 per 1,000) than the United States. Not surprisingly, more Canadians per capita were admitted to hospitals, and they also stayed substantially longer than in the United States. Canadian hospital patients averaged three more days of care. However, the United States still pays more per person on hospital services.

This is not only because of the reduced administrative costs of the Canadian system, but because it is the United States, not Canada, that has the most surplus beds! *[16] Besides having a surplus of three hundred thousand hospital beds, the U.S. also has at least five thousand surplus mammography machines. The excess raises the cost per mammogram since most machines are used only part-time. In facilities that operate at low volumes, quality is often lower, since staff may not perform enough mammograms to maintain their competence. Uncontrolled capital spending not only raises costs, but it can also lower quality. *[17]

Gaming the System

The search for profit also has disadvantages in health care. It leads to waste and to inappropriate care. Profits can be derived both from reducing costs and from increasing sales. It is consequently in the interest of for-profit firms to sell as much expensive care as possible, rather than to focus on providing appropriate services as determined on the basis of health care needs. In "Health Care in the United States: The Facts and the Choices," Stephen Ayers describes the dynamic at work when payments to hospitals are tied to diagnosis related groupings (DRG's), a classification or coding system introduced in an effort to control Medicare costs.

"Certain codes paid top dollar, so every effort was made to squeeze patients into the higher paying diagnoses. Cardiac catheterization, bypass surgery, and angioplasty paid particularly well, and the number of hospitals performing these procedures increased dramatically. However, since trauma care paid poorly and many trauma patients were uninsured, the number of trauma centers in the country decreased sharply." *[18]

Page 5 of 8

In Canadian hospitals however, public administration has resulted in global budgets that significantly reduce the incentives to emphasize the most complicated and expensive types of care. Under global budgeting, each hospital receives, from the province, a fixed amount that they can then allocate on the basis of patients' needs, rather than on the basis of revenue maximization. Of course the waste produced by "gaming the system" activity can also occur in a nonprofit system based on piecework incentives.

However, because physicians in Canada are paid a specific wage for their time, there is very little incentive to do so! There are, of course, other reasons that "pure" market solutions are inefficient and unproductive. In a competitive system preventive health care may not pay off for ten years, and the benefits could accrue to another insurer. Also competition means marketing, and marketing means costs.

Private Insurers

Contrary to conventional wisdom, private insurers spend far more on bureaucracy than do government insurance programs. In 1991, more than 13 percent of every premium dollar went to overhead, such as claims processing, marketing, furnishing insurance company offices, executives' salaries, and of course, perks and profits. In contrast, Medicare spent about 2 percent, and Canada's public insurance system takes less than 1 percent of each premium dollar. *[19]

Are Canadian Stupid?

Well, basing my opinion on that Gallup Poll, published in the Toronto Star in 1993, I would say that: Yes, about 2 percent are stupid, and about 2 percent are, unlike you and me, just uneducated. NOTE: This article was extensively re-edited by the Author, July 2002.

FURTHER READING

This article was based on only a small amount of original research. The following two books cover the majority of the points made in this article - and more!

"Universal Health Care: What the United States Can Learn From the Canadian Experience," by Pat & Hugh Armstrong, The New Press, New York, 1998

"The Rational Option for a National Health Program," by John Canham-Clyne, with Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., and David Himmelstein, M.D., The Pamphleteer's Press Inc., Stoney Creek, Connecticut, 1995

Another publication produced in June 1991 by the U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO) titled "Canadian Health Insurance: Lessons for the United States" states on page 6, "[if] the United States were to shift to a system of universal coverage and a single payer, as in Canada, the savings in administration costs would be more than enough to offset the expense of universal coverage."

Page 6 of 8

FOOTNOTES

UHC = "Universal Health Care: What the United States Can Learn From the Canadian Experience," by Pat & Hugh Armstrong, The New Press, New York, 1998 RO = "The Rational Option for a National Health Program," by John Canham-Clyne, with Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., and David Himmelstein, M.D., The Pamphleteer's Press Inc., Stoney Creek, Connecticut, 1995

*[1] (OECD) Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, "Health Data 97" , from UHC, p. 104 Table 6.4 Note: The actual data is from 1995.

*[2] U.S. Census Bureau, "Health Insurance Coverage, 1995" "Highlights" (Washington: U.S. Census Bureau, 1996) from, UHC p.105 footnote 8

*[3] UHC p.105

*[4] "Medicare Deductible, Coinsurance and Premium

Amounts," The Federal Register 61:214 (Nov. 1996), pp. 55002-006 from, UHC p.26 Table 2.1

*[5] Life Expectancy at Birth (for any particular year) is calculated by first, counting the total number of people who die at each year of life, such as under one year of age, and dividing that number by the total population of babies under one year of age. This will give the percentage of individuals that died at that age. As an example, in the U.S., in 1998, 6.44 children out of 1000 died under one year of age. Dividing 6.44 by 1,000 gives, 0.644 percent of children in 1998 dying before one year of age. (See: Infant Mortality Rate in the following paragraphs of my article.) Next do the same calculations for under two years of age, and add that percentage to your previous percent (0.644 in the example). When the total reaches 50 percent that is the (average) Life Expectancy at Birth, for that population or nation in that year.

Source: "Vital Statistics of the United States", Department of Health and Human Services, (National Center for Health Statistics), pub. 1996, section 6.

*[6] OECD, “OECD Health Systems: Facts and Trends 1960 - 1991” (Paris: OECD, 1993), table 3.2.13, f rom UHC, p. 82

*[7] OECD, "OECD Health Systems,” table 3.1.9 from, UHC p. 80 footnote 26 The figures for Canada are from 1978 while those for the United States are from 1980. This is thus likely to underestimate, rather than overestimate, the differences between the two countries in disability free years.

*[8] OECD,” OECD Health Systems,” table 3.2.4. from, UHC p.82 footnote 35

*[9] RO, page 44.

*[10] Woolhandler and Himmelstein, "Administrative Costs" p. 401 from, RO p.44 footnote 38

Page 7 of 8

*[11] Himmelstein and Woodhandler, "National Health Program Book", from UHC, p. 134

*[12 ] RO, page 45.

*[13] UHC, page 36

*[14] Himmelstein and Woodhandler, "National Health Program Book", from UHC, p. 126

*[15] RO, page 23

*[16] Nair, Karim, and Nyers, "Health Care and Health Status: A Canada-United States Statistical Comparison" Health Reports , 4:2 (1992), p. 176 from, UHC p. 35 & 36

*[17] Brown, Kessler, and Reuter, "Is the Supply of Mammography Machines Outstripping Need and Demand? An Economic Analysis," Annals of Internal Medicine 113 (1990), 547; Himmelstein and Woolhandler, Chartbook, p. 59 from, RO p. 23 footnote 11

*[18] Ayers, "Health Care in the United States", pp. 17-18 from, UHC p. 119 footnote 6

*[19] RO, pages 43-44

Page 8 of 8


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: 2yearoldarticle; 2yearoldmind; ahole; astudy; awitch; canada; dusrupter; healthcare; kittenchow; medicine; newbie; socializedmedicine; troll; vikingkitties; zot
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To: joseph_hardesty; All
Having lived in both countries, I think I can offer some interesting perspective on this issue.

Most of the comparisons between Canada and the U.S. are little more than academic exercises, and while the author of this article has generally done a pretty thorough analysis, there is still no point in trying to compare the two nations. First and foremost, the United States does not have a "health care system" -- this is a silly catch-phrase used by people looking to pursue an agenda one way or another ("The U.S. health care system is in crisis," "The U.S. health care system is the best in the world," etc.). In the U.S., health care encompasses a broad area of numerous inter-related sectors of the economy. Therefore, comparisons between "their system" and "our system" are pretty pointless.

Using life expectancy statistics to compare the quality of health care between countries is also misleading, since these statistics do not account for the impact that variations in infrastructure, personal health, and social pathologies such as drug abuse, alcoholism, etc. have on these statistics.

This article also neglects to mention the most important factor in the health care cost differential between the U.S. and Canada. Health care does not cost less in Canada because Canada has a single-payer system. You can implement a single-payer system in the U.S. tomorrow, and the savings (due to reduced "overhead," paperwork, etc.) would be negligible. Health care costs less in Canada because the single payer is a government office/agency that is immune from lawsuits by the patients that are treated in the system. This is precisely why any attempt to implement a single-payer system in the United States always includes an item that receives very little attention -- indemnification for the government against lawsuits.

This is something to think about the next time someone like Ted Kennedy or Hillary Clinton claims that patients should be allowed to sue their HMOs. These people are not consistent, because they do not believe that patients should be allowed to sue their HMOs if the HMO in question is the U.S. government.

61 posted on 11/06/2003 9:31:46 AM PST by Alberta's Child ("To freedom, Alberta, horses . . . and women!")
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To: joseph_hardesty
In the US, if you want to pay cash for a scan on one of the multitude of MRI machines here, your wait may be a few days. In Canada (where my in-laws live) you can do the same thing. . . for your dog or cat, but not your mother, son, wife, or any other human. See, that is moving ahead in the queue. Can't have that, can we? No, humans have to wait for MONTHS to get a scan, in many cases, too late to do anything about which the scan might reveal.

My brother recently needed a PET scan, and, after a week's wait, got one. He had to travel to a small city of about 90,000 people. How many PET machines do they have in Canada? TWO! And one of them needs repair!
62 posted on 11/06/2003 9:32:20 AM PST by Andyman
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To: joseph_hardesty
As the above article points out, in a 1992 Gallup poll, the Canadians, who live right next to us, and speak the same language, and have lots of knowledge of our system, preferred their system to our system by 96% to 2%.

I don't dispute those numbers, but 1992 was 11 years ago. I'd be curious to see a reference to a 2003 Gallup poll.

63 posted on 11/06/2003 9:33:15 AM PST by Alberta's Child ("To freedom, Alberta, horses . . . and women!")
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To: discostu
the socialized system sucks, socialized anything sucks, that's why socialized countries are not leaders of the world.

No argument with that one bit. Still, our system for all its warts is far from the unmitigated disaster I see it described as so often, here and elsewhere. If we'd simply allow a parallel private system to coexist with the public one many of the problems could be reduced significantly. Of course, getting government out of the picture entirely would be much preferrable, but reality is reality and that isn't in the cards up here.

Personally, I'd be much happier with a full private system where I culd take responsibility for myself rather than being forced to deal with a fairly mediocre system for all.

64 posted on 11/06/2003 9:34:13 AM PST by mitchbert (Facts are Stubborn Things)
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To: mitchbert
I'm not saying it's an unmitigated disaster, those honors go to China, but the Canadian system needs a lot of help. Fully private is the way to go, we could do with some privatization in America.
65 posted on 11/06/2003 9:37:05 AM PST by discostu (You figure that's gotta be jelly cos jam just don't shake like that)
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To: joseph_hardesty
where is DU????

HERE you go

66 posted on 11/06/2003 9:37:08 AM PST by paul51
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To: joseph_hardesty
Cattle Cookies!

What's the wait time to get a CT scan in Toronto?

I can get one here in the great basin this week.

Take your socialist drivel with you.

67 posted on 11/06/2003 10:09:59 AM PST by glock rocks (molon labe)
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To: Alberta's Child
1. Tort reform in the US to give us the same cost factors that the Canadian Health System has in that they have relative immunity to the many types of suits we have in the US.

2. Selling US drugs in foreign countries at the same price level charged in the US would drastically reduce the price for drugs to all. Foreign countries that pursue patent right infringement should be the subject of a total trade embargo. It is high time that the costs for advancements in drug therapy we in this country pay for are shared by any and all who use this therapy and the US drug companies should not be blackmailed into selling these drugs w/o adequate compensation for fear that they will have them copied w/o any compensation to those who developed the drugs. The US Govt should seriously pursue patent infringements when the foreign countries reproduce these drugs which are produced in the US with US capital and largely paid for by the US consumer. If these countries pursist in stealing our drug formulas, then take such measures as are necessary to stop it.

3. No US government subsidy for anyone but the severely indigent until and unless a citizen has first expended at least $500 to $1,000 for the calendar year.

These changes would greatly reduce the cost of medicine and medical treatment in the US.
68 posted on 11/06/2003 10:25:55 AM PST by brydic1
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To: joseph_hardesty
"You "accidentally forgot" to mention the introductory paragraph to the news story you cited. I will be glad to reproduce it here: "Normally when you hear about bus trips between Maine and Canada related to health care, it's Mainers going north to buy prescription drugs." "

He DID post that part of it!

Did you get those prescription glasses in Canada?

69 posted on 11/06/2003 10:34:14 AM PST by capt. norm ( Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines)
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To: joseph_hardesty
You really need to do your medical homework. This can help begin the process:

http://www.pacificresearch.org/press/opd/2003/opd_03-09-21sp.html
70 posted on 11/06/2003 11:30:52 AM PST by eleni121 (EAIT ot get routine tests.)
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To: joseph_hardesty
You think the Canadian Universal Health Care System could survive if we sent them all the ILLEGAL uninsured aliens who are pouring into our ER rooms, and being treated, every hour of every day? Hummm?

We should bus them all up there.

sw

71 posted on 11/06/2003 11:45:14 AM PST by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: joseph_hardesty
"where is DU???"

Sharp turn to the LEFT..

sw

72 posted on 11/06/2003 11:50:47 AM PST by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: VRWCmember; joseph_hardesty


73 posted on 11/06/2003 11:58:11 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Check out the Texas Chicken D 'RATS!: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/keyword/Redistricting)
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To: joseph_hardesty


74 posted on 11/06/2003 11:59:10 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Check out the Texas Chicken D 'RATS!: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/keyword/Redistricting)
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To: eleni121
We moved one of our Canadian employees down here when we transferred his department to Indianapolis. He's tells me how he "only" had to wait 6 MONTHS for an MRI on his shoulder.

There's a reason Detroiters refer to their currency as Canadian Pesos.
75 posted on 11/06/2003 12:54:53 PM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: joseph_hardesty
Why a poll from 1992? I'll tell you why. That was back when their new system was still being implemented, wasn't it?

I wonder how they feel now that Canadians can't get a CT Scan without coming to the U.S.?

Now that Doctors are streaming out of Canada, causing such a shortage that the government has to fine them $5,000 for not working in ERs?

Now that you have to come to the U.S. to get most kinds of surgery unless you want to wait a few months to a year?

Now that many Canadian hospitals are on the verge of bankruptcy?

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=1926
76 posted on 11/06/2003 1:51:02 PM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: TruthConquers; joseph_hardesty
Worth a re-post:

I had an uncle who was allowed to be blind for the last six months of life because a simply operation to allow him to see was decided to be not a good use of health care dollars.

I had another uncle who was dying and there was no bed for him available at the hospital in Winnipeg. They did not diagnose him until it was too late.

Take your numbers, words of lies, and pray that we never have Canadian health care here.

77 posted on 11/06/2003 1:55:42 PM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: joseph_hardesty
Worth posting here in full:

Can 7,700 Doctors Be Wrong About Health Care?


Posted Sep 26, 2003 by Charles W. Jarvis

Recently, a group representing some 7,700 physicians used the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) to champion Canadian-style socialized medicine for America.

Could so many supposedly smart people be completely wrong about good health care policy? Yes. In this case they are dangerously wrong.

A cursory analysis of Canada's health care system shows how utterly foolish emulation of Canada would be. Maybe the Canadian newspapers will tell us what proponents of socialized medicine won't.

Claim No. 1: Canada's System of Socialized Medicine Provides Sufficient Money to Deliver Care to All.

Canada spends about 9% of its GDP on health care and provides coverage for all, while the U.S. spends 14% and has millions of people uninsured. Proponents of a Canadian model thus conclude that the federal government could cover every American for what the country is spending now -- or less.

That argument ignores the fact that there is no government-run health care system in the world that is adequately funded. And the reason is simple: health care must compete with education, welfare, defense and other valid claims on government funds. As a result, every government-run system rations care, with bureaucrats and elected officials deciding who gets what and when.


78 posted on 11/06/2003 1:59:18 PM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: eleni121
Add Seattle to the list. The two years I lived there ('99-'01) it was crawling with Canadians down to get medical care.

I don't know if it's true but one of them down for a MRI told me that there were more MRI machines in Seattle than all of British Columbia.
79 posted on 11/06/2003 3:32:07 PM PST by Proud_texan
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