Why the Osama video is real: the Holland connection (Dutch Jihad Walkers MUST READ)

When the US government released the tape where Osama bin Mohammed bin Laden boasted about the 9/11 attacks, too many people said it was a fake. They said it was manufactured by the CIA and so on. But why did OBL mention Holland? He said:

Some of them said that in Holland, at one of the centers, the number of people who accepted islam during the days that follwed the operations were more than the people who accepted islam in the last eleven years.

Why would anybody who wanted to make a fake tape include such information? Why would they want to mention Holland, a small country, most people do not even know where Holland is located. And when you check the number of people who turned muslim, there is no increase. The information seems to be incorrect. Why would anybody put this in, while it only confuses everybody. I do not think the tape is false, the detail about Holland is too tiny to mention in a fake.

When I translated an article about a Dutchman who converted to islam, the answer came to me. In the article a guy named Van de Ven he said there are two versions of islam, one most muslims do, and the one he and OBL do, the fundamentalistic one.

In the video OBL was not saying that the total number of muslims grew, he was takling about the people that already were muslim and turned extremistic muslim! At that time only OBL and the people inside the organisations could have known this. And OBL knows about Holland because of the links with four fundamentalistic organizations in Holland. Links these organisations have with Saudi-Arabia.

The following articles I translated are about some Dutch people that are connected to fundamentalist organizations/foundations with the links to Saudi-Arabia. And some of the results this has on our society. In Holland muslims organizations got a strong hold on politics. There are currently about 1,5 million muslims in Holland (about 10% of our total population) and 705 Moroccan and 1024 Turkish organizations/foundations in Holland (from the mosque database.

1. The article about this Van de Ven, a Dutch Jihad Walker in the making
2. About the books that these muslim foundations sell to schools 3. More about these foundations 4. The Dutch National Muslim Broadcaster stops infomercials of these foundations 5. Young fundamentalists (interview on this Van de Ven and jihad friends, humongous barf alert) 6. An example of what this kind of education does to kids when you tell them to act as a qonquer and when islam allows the raping of "kafirs"

By Romana Abels en Kustaw Bessems, from newspaper Trouw, 21 december 2001 (an imam = muslim cleric)

NIJMEGEN - A growing number of people embrace islam, this is also noticed by youth-imam Abdul Jabbar van de Ven (hey, I am not making his name up you know, he really calls himself this way). "Since 11 september I do get a lot more questions about islam than before".

Van de Ven (24), that converted to islam 10 years ago and is a well known person with the muslim-youths, says that Osama bin Laden is partially right (about the things he said on tape about the Netherlands). Bin Laden stated that "in one of the centers in Holland" there was a much larger number of people embracing islam than in the 11 years prior to the attacks.

I cannot understand what brother Osama bin Laden means with "center", according to me it is happening in the entire Netherlands", says Van de Ven. "But the people have become very intrested."

Directly after the Bin Laden tape was released, a number of Dutch muslimleaders and experts denied that in the Netherlands after the 9/11 attacks the number of people converting to islam had grown. But according to Bin Laden en Van de Ven you only become a real muslim if you pursue a mondial islamic stateform. "And just that spirit I see amongst the young people in the movement."

Van de Ven, that studied one year in Saudi-Arabia, wants to move to an Arabic country. "After the 9/11 events I got the feeling: I do not belong here anymore", he told in an interview with newspaper Trouw. "I get sick of the phoney way of religion". Islamic countries do not excist according to him, only Afghanistan was one when the Taliban ruled it. "But if you must choose between cancer and the flu. The Netherlands is the cancer."

In the Netherlands there is a systematic distribution of fundamentalistic and hate-encouraging texts from extremistic muslims.

Nova (Dutch newsprogram) has done an investigation of the politic islam in the Netherlands and discovered that in many of the texts there is a call for hate against Christians, Jews, woman and homosexuals.

"I have been given oders to fight the people, to wage war with them, until they confess that allah is the only and true god and mohammed is his prophet", is one of the texts in a book that is currently in use by some schools for childeren aging 4 to 12 years in the Netherlands. The educational books are from the foundation Al Waqf from Eindhoven (Dutch city), that holds connections with Saudi-Arabia.

Criminal code expert A. Ellian from the university of Amsterdam says that the educational books from the foundation Al Waqf from Eindhoven call out for hate. In one of the studybooks from Al Waqf the teachers are instructed to motivate their "students to behave like conquerors".

Foundation Al Waqf aslo has a youthorganization where on the internet a cyber-imam answers a lot of questions from young muslims. Questions on this site are about the way islam teaches about homosexuality: "... the argument (about the punishment of homosexuality) that is amongst the "learned" is only about the way of how the punishment has to be; some say that the person needs to be beheaded with a sword, others say that he has to be tossed from a high point and then to be stoned".

The Amsterdam mosque and the foundation El Tawheed have spead a flyer where there is a warning about Christian celebrations/holidays: "How can you join the festivities from the enemy just as if it where you're own?". Also on the website of the foundation is stated about how muslims must deal with neighbors that are non-believers; "Advised is it not to live amongst them" and "We must never make friendship with them".

Minister Van Boxtel of Immigration reacts in NOVA about these statements. He announces a BVD (Dutch NSA) rapport about the influence of fundamentalistic muslimorganizations on education. This rapport is due somewhere in 2002. Also Van Boxtel askes, after the NOVA broadcast about this information, his collegue Hermans from Education for better control on these issues.

THE HAGUE - Four international islamic charitable organizations with establishments in the Netherlands are supporting extremistic violence. This writes minister De Vries of Internal Affairs in answer to questions from the Tweede Kamer (highest Dutch government body. De Vries writes to have clues that supports was given by these organizations to violent activities by extremistic muslims.

The establishments of those organizations in the Netherlands are known to the BVD (the Dutch NSA), according to the minister. They lead a dismal excistence, but the BVD will continue to investigate the activities of these organizations "in and from the Netherlands". The organizations in question are the foundation Al Haramain, the International Islamic Relief Organization, the World Assembly of Muslim Youth and the foundation Muwaffaq. De Vries also points out that "not all activities of these organizations can be linked to secret support of violent activities".

Two members of the Dutch establishment of Muwaffaq are named on the American list of persons and organizations who's assets were frozen because of links to terrorist activities, according to De Vries. Minister De Vries waits with making a formal descision to forbid these organizations until the negotiations in Europan context about the fight against international terror are concluded.

Reason of the questions of the Tweede Kamer was a publication by newspaper Trouw about the big, by Saudis financed funds that hold office in the Netherlands. According to the minister he informed the commission Intelligence- and Securityservices of the Tweede Kamer confidentaly over the progress about the BVD-investigation of these organisations.

(In Rotterdam this organization is allowed to broadcast programs on the local kabel-tv, without subtitles, I wonder why. Would they been hiding things from us?)

HILVERSUM (ANP) - The Dutch NMO (Nederlandse Moslim Omroep = Netherland's Muslim Broadcaster) stops with the televising of infomercials of the Saudi organization International Islamic Relief. This was announced by NMO-director F. William on friday. He reacted with this statement to a letter adressed to him by minister De Vries (Internal Affairs). In this letter is a warning of links with the IIR organization and extremist muslims.

In answer to questions asked by members of the Tweede Kamer (highest Dutch governement body) De Vries said "that there were clear leads that there was (secret) support from this organisation to violent activities by extremistic muslims". The other organizations are Muwaffaq, Al-Haramain and World Assembly of Muslim Youth. William was not aware of this information: "This is brand new for me. But I will directly get in contact with my redaction and cancel all broadcasting of these commercials. I recal having televised this infomercial twice", according to the NMO-director. A few days after the 9/11 attacks on the US the NMO also had bad luck with it's programs. Shortly after the three minute silence in honor of the victims, the NMO broadcasted a quran-quote stating that unbelievers have to be killed. William admitted this was not very clever to do, but also that this quote isn't to be taken literaly.

(The quote was like this: "According to allah all unbelievers are fuel for the fires in hell")

According to Osama bin Mohammed bin Laden have embraced many more people in the US islam after th 9/11 attacks then in the 11 years before it. Fanatical young muslims recongice that picture. They say that the interest is growing in the Netherlands, especially under youths. And with islam they mean not praying 5 times a day end live just like anybody else, but a pure islam, that strives to the introduction of the sharia. Newspaper Trouw spoke to three youths, that are part of a group of 12 active and fanatical preaching imams.

The 24 years old Abdul Jabbar van de Ven rather does not use the word: "But a teacher once said to me that I was a fundamentalist. Then I began to smile and I said to him: thank you. It was an honor to me. I call myself muslim, I hope that every muslim keeps value his fundaments. You can hear people saying in the media: "Yes, that is really an extremistic muslim. Then I think: well, if he thinks he is extremistic, than he doesn't know what I am."

Van de Ven is a youth-imam with growing popularity. You can see because of his spacious trousers and black waistcoat he used to be in the hip-hop scene in the past. His expression is serious, on his young face grows a long beard. Van de Ven does Middle-East studies in Nijmegen. Since a year he is married to a Dutch woman of Moroccan origine.

In his preaches and lectures, last ramadan he held nine of them is different mosques, Van de Ven calls the youth to return to the fundaments of islam ("The word of allah does not change and is the most stable fundament to build upon.")

He works, amongst other, for the foundation Alwaqf Muslim Youth Holland (Samjh), a group of young muslims that think that there is too little happening for them in the Netherlands and is a part of the Saudi foundation Al Waqf al-Islami in Eindhoven.

At the Samjh is it for no one a shame to be fundamentalist. Van de Ven: "The islam has certain boundaries. If you stand outside them, you can scream 'I still stand within islam', but than you just make a fool out of yourself."

Recently there was a video released where Osama bin Laden says that since 9/11 more people embraced islam then in the '11 years' before combined. Bin Laden is probably refering to his quarrel with the United States, that started eleven years ago, during the building of the US military bases in his birthland Saudi-Arabia.

The Gulfwar was the reason for Van de Ven to enter a Turkish mosque in Veghel (a town near Eindhoven) when he was 14 years old. "The newspapers were filled with news about muslims. But if you tell a teenager that doing such things is dangerous, he will do just the opposite." Jilles, his name at the time, van de Ven says that his feeling that he did not belong started in the higher classes of his Catholic basic-school (for childeren 4 to 12 year old). "When I phoned the mosque, they said: of course you can come over. The day I turned 14 years I went to the mosque."

Van de Ven studied more and more about his new religion. He stopped his VWO (a higer form of high school) to study a year in Median, Saudi-Arabia. A request via the embassy was rewared with a ticket, a visa and a stay after a year: "I studied Arabic grammar and the basic foundations of islam. After school we were taking in a big bus to the big mosque of Medina. There are the islamic learned that teach day and night. The people you look up to. This is comperable to what Hollywood means to the film-fanatic."

"My parent though: he is a teenager, it will pass by. Then they noticed that this feeling was to stay, it was too late to talk it over. My friends thought I follewed the trend, because I listened a lot to famous rappers that where turing muslim."

Van de Ven is at first not negative about the Netherlands. The social security for example, are coming straight out of islam. That things are very clean in Holland, too. But Holland is also 'liberal with sexual things'. "The billboards from Sloggy (you see half naked woman and men from the back); at such a moment I am really disgusted that I live here. I wished at such a moment that I was blind."

Since some time now Van de Ven is feeling more and more a stranger in the Netherlands. "After the case El Moumni and 11 september I got the feeling I do not belong here anymore. Those two things are alomst the same: believe what we are saying or else we will shove it down your throat. With bombs or persecution. I am disgusted of the false way of showing religion. I know that many more muslims think this way about this situation. There are a lot of angry young people around."

"If people say 'terrorism is being delt with; while in Iraq there have died a million people in the past one and a half year, I think: start with the biggest terrorists, the USA, Israel and the UK. I am really disgusted by the way they measure with different standars. I think that America just has reacted again in the way they made enemies, and maybe because of that they caused what happened on 9/11."

"To us Afghanistan was the ideal place. Some one that abolishes the sharia, the way a state should be according islamic laws, is a non-believer. The Taliban started the sharia there. I therefore believe that there is not even one muslim that does not believe that this war is not a war against islam. Islam is not about praying five times a day and be the same as everybody else. Islam is establishing a state according to the sharia."

"The world is gathering against us. That is the sentiment that there is amongst us now. We see it this way, the youths that I have contact with and the people I am dealing with: the Jews count maybe 6 million souls and have a state of their own. There are about 1.5 billion muslims (according to him), but do not have their own state. Even our own people are persecuted in countries like Algeria and Egypt."

"Every muslim holds the highest respect for the mujahideen, people who do battle in the jihad. Even muslims that are not very active, hold great respect for them. Now Bush has created a list with organizations he want to exterminate. To us these people are like Rodin Hood, that fight for the rights of muslims. And therefore we see the war as a war against islam. America is fighting our heros."

"I you look at the backgrouds of the conflicts, then every honest man that sees what our heros do is a struggle for freedom. Wether you are talking about Kashmir, the Philiphenes or Palestina."

When asked about the 20 year old American John Walker, that fought together with the Taliban, Van de Ven blushes. "I love him. I have seen him on TV. And I am ashamed that a boy aged twenty has progressed so far, while I as an older, at least older than him, has not progress to that level."

"You have to imagine: you leave behid your fatherland, everything you had, your loved ones, your family, behind. For islam. Maybe you will die. To do this you must have a certain level of faith."

Van de Ven can imagine it. "I do think lately I am progressing to that level more and more." To where that journey will lead to? "Only allah knows what the future holds."

He will for certain leave the Netherlands. "You must choose between cancer and the flu. The Netherlands is like cancer too me. Muslim-countries may not be completly perfect, but as a muslim you have got a lot more freedom."

Van de Ven thought that Saudi-Arabia was to sloppy dealing with islam. "Even if you pratice 90% of the sharia and don't do the last 10%, then you still are a non-believer." I strive for a state that is completly in accordance with islamic law, just like Osama bin Laden wants. "Brother Osama bin Laden announces things I can identify with. I know he has asked advice from great learned people from Bangladesh, Pakistan and Arabic countries for his fatwa against Crusaders and Jews."

The statemant from Bin Laden that there were many more people who embraced islam because of the 9/11 attacks, comes as no suprise for Van de Ven. "I notice that within the last few weeks a lot more people are asking me questions. I am seeing people turning muslim every week, because I get phoned or e-mailed: can you help this person? During the last months a lot of youths. They are about 20 years of age and choose (aware) for this. Just like I did during the Gulfwar."

That the islam has a bad name, has according Van de Ven two reasons. "Muslims give the wrong example themselves. Go and look in prisons (he is speaking about Holland here), a lot of the inmates are our young (muslim) people. If they would have followed the islam, they would not have ended there, because of something like drugs. But the media in the west is used as a weapon in the battle against islam. That sounds like I am paranoid, but it is a fact hat certain lobbies in the US own the newsmedia. I mean the Jewish lobby, yes."

Until the moment he will embark for another country, he will help youths in Holland. From his own home with the internet, audiotapes, videotapes and books, or traveling across the country. "I have red that in Rotterdam 100% of the Moroccan youths said: I am proud to be a muslim. I am glad when I was reading this, but I also think: then just where are your actions? I understand that Moroccan youths go out on the streets when they are 16 years old. They only learned verses that they do not understand."

"The problem is that imams from outside Holland do not speak Dutch, and more important, that they do not speak the language of the young. I also was a free, Dutch boy and I could do what I wanted. I could visit the coffeshop and drink beers. I know the world where young people live in, I used to have girlfriends too. I know every excuse they think up for themselves to stay away from the imam."

"I hear a lot of people say that I am an example. I the land of the blind, one-eye is king. I mastered the basic knowledge that every muslim has to know, but because almost no one posses that knowledge, people look up to me."

"I the first place there has to be education for younger people that already got a muslimsbackground. If a non-muslim want to have information and I think he is sincere, I will give it but I will not put my foot in the doorway. The muslim-youth, I will walk to them mysefl, them I will confront."

"The goverment here has got no knowledge of islam, the teachings of the true islam. I often hear people say "what the Taliban does, is not islam. Nonsense. To us they are the real muslims. We muslims got morals and values that also are present in Saudi-Arabia and other countries that support the spreading of our faith. I do understand the Netherlands. Just like I will protect islamic morals, they want to protect their own. But I am of course not on their side."

Hassan Barzizaoua (28) is glad that in islamic Holland new leaders arise. "We currently are with twelve. Man aging twenty, early thirties that hold most Dutch spoken lectures for muslim-youths."

He remebers how it al started, ten years back in a mosque in Nijmegen. "With Turkish, Moroccan and Dutch brothers we decided to preach to the young people in the Dutch language, something unique then." Since that he can hardly can hold up to the requests for his lectures. Mostly after such a lecture he is introducer in the prayer, so he dares to call himself imam.

Today Barzizaoua is relatively experienced. Sombody like Abdul Jabbar van de Ven is working with youth much shorter. Barzizaoua does not alway agree with the abrasive, converted Dutchman. "But he is fantasic friend. I often give people his number when I am too busy to do it myslef." We also did a sermon together and Barzizaoua has visited the Saudi foundation Al Waqf sometimes, the foundation that Van de Ven does cooperate with.

Although Barzizaoua recongizes the dissapointment of Van de Ven, who is disgusted with Holland and wants to leave from there very quickly, he is not considering to leave for a more islamic country. "With the religion is nothing wrong in the Netherlands. You can built mosques everywhere, you can pray, you can do ramadan. That you are allowed to call for prayers, is even regulated by laws. In a lot of Arabis countries there is a lot less freedom, you are forced to hold lecturtes according to what the state describes. Like in Egypt, where simple believing muslims like fundamentalists are persecuted. In Morocco great learned ones are not permitted to leave their house or are jailed."

Furthermore: "If muslims did not settle outside a muslim country, the islam would not have come further than Mecca and Medina. Malasya, Indonesia and the Philipenes are only islamized by trade-journeys. Retreating to a country that is already islamic would not be in accordance to the universal character of islam, a defeat. The prophet did say: the whole world is my mosque. Humanity can learn a lot from islam."

Barzizaoua moved for the North-Moroccan Nador to the Netherlands when he was 11 years old. He lives in Culemborg (a small city in the middle of Holland), close to his parents. After gymnasium (our highest form of high-school) he began studying Arabic and medicine. He is alomst finished with it. His family was traditional, but that religion differs with his current believes. "I was not really aware of it. I did not asked why I did the things I did. That is now the question of every conversation: why these comandments and prohibitations? In the past we only asked how we had to do something."

"In Morocco the religions is much more embedded with the culture. Who can see if a man with a beard or a woman with a scarf really does believe or not? I a non-islamic country you are forced to be selfconscious."

The call for a pure believe came together with the amazement about the behaviour of people of his own faith. "I saw a group of Moroccan boys misbehave: drinking, being brutal, laugning loud. And I though to myself: why of all people do these guys have to do these things, culturaly inheritaged muslims, that other people look at and thinking they see muslims? No, there was no shame, but I felt responsible."

He annoys himself to the many loose interpretaions of islam. "Many muslims take lone verses from the quran from their original context and go their own way with them. Than many discussions follow, but it is based on wrong information and is useless. You have to hold on to the fundaments. You may change the behaviorcode, but never the teachings of the faith."

Barzizaoua sees that in the Netherlands an increasing number of youths that are getting more serious about learning the islamic fundaments. Not only since 11 september, like Osama claims, but since years. "At our lectures there are two- to threehundered young people in the room. During the ramadan they are present almost every day, the rest of the year at least once a month."

Personaly he does not think that Osama bin Laden is very interseting, he never red something from him. "You can be against America and still denounce the attacks. It is sad that he made big headlines in the media. What he did accomplish is that people do not longer think that fundamentalists are underdeveloped illiterates. That is just not true, they are mostly very intelligent. If you are more intelligent, you feel more resonsible for things. You want to make changes during difficult times. Maybe that is the reason mostly gifted muslims turn extremists."

He hopes that he, and the other young preachers, can be an example for the muslim-youths in the Netherlands. "I would like to see that in the Netherlands an official group specialists in the science of islam would look at the new challenges of the religion. And I find it important that those specialists do live a big part of their lives in Holland. Especialy with the problems that occure, like skipping school, crime, drugabuse and health, you have to know the situation over here very well.

Abdullah Bekx (30) angered himself about the solidarity that the Dutch people showed after the 9/11 attacks in the US: "These three minutes of silence after 11 september caused great pain to me. In Palestina there is a war going on for 50 years now. In Tsjechenia there are people being slaughtered, just like in Afghanistan now. For them there is no three minutes of silence. There Holland is not interfering with it's military."

In his newly build house in Helmond (Dutch city) Abdullah Bekx, his former name Ronnie, tells that 4 years ago, during a scubadivingholiday, he met his present Egyptian wife 'as if it was a miracle'. He became a muslim. And not because he want to marry his beloved one. This faith was already in his heart.

When, still filled with doubt, bought a second ticket to the Middle-East, the Egyptian travelagent brought him in contact with Abdul Jabbar van de Ven, who was also converted to islam and was very well introduced in the fundamentals of islam. "For that I thank allah even still today."

Bekx, that did a foodtechnology education, felt he was shaken awake by allah. When he looks back that he was brainwashed during school and by the media, with examples like the evolution theory, that is according Bekx a fabel.

His faith reaches very far. "I can do better. It can always be improved. I islam interest is forbidden and I bought this house with a mortgage. I am currently looking for a rental appartement and the money I make selling this place I donate to islam. My family thinks that I am going way to far."

In january the first issue of "Wij moslims!" (Us muslims!) will appear, the magazine that Bekx is has founded in cooperation with the foundation Alwaqf Muslim Youth Holland. The preview issue is currently available and asked for reactions to thesises like 'islamic polygamic marriage has to be accepted by law'. "I think that the muslimcommunity in Holland is not gathered sufficiently. I want to make it stronger."

Most Turkish and Moroccan people that are regared as muslim by Dutch poeple, are not really muslim according to Bekx. "The group of really active muslims, that are seeking for real knowledge, that want to make progression, Holland is too small: hundereds, maybe a few thousand. There are many youths presents like me. We must seek the outside world more."

Recently Bekx gave a lecture, titled 'Fight them until there is no more idolatry and the religion belong to allah'. "Fighting means: give them information. A form of jihad. You have got great jihad, that you do against satanic voices that talk to you. Then there is the distribution of information and the form of jihad that most people fear: the armed struggle. That form is meant to counter attacks and oppression.

Bekx mentions the fight of the Palestians agianst the Israeli occupation. He applauds suicidebombings, even if it is outside the occupied area. "Tel Aviv is also Palestina." And if childeren get killed? "When a young child dies, he or she will go to paradise, without the questioning. Adults will be judged upon their deeds and intentions. Because of the conscription most civilians are also soldiers as well."

At the end of times all unbelievers will be punished, according to Bekx. He has seen sign that the end is near. "Things are not going well with the society. There is more and more crime, more and more weird things on TV. There is a link there." An advantage he sees in the fact that many more people are waking up. "If things turn bad, many people start praying to allah. So it is stated in the quran."

Here is streaming video of this Bekx. He is takling about his newly started magazine. This nutcase states that "all people are born as a muslim, but they were brought up in Christian or Hindu families. So one day they will discover their true faith"

First two terms I need to explain:
"autochtone" means original Dutch people
"allochtone" means immigrants or their childeren

Perpetrators and victims of group-rapes are getting younger. This was concluded by experts on this matter at the court, the DA-office and the collected lawyers-office in Rotterdam.

Youthjudge S. de Pauw Gerlings is seing many more perpetrators of 14 years and even younger. Also the officer of justice L. Bronsel, from youthcases in Rotterdam, is confronted more and more with younger perpetrators. In most cases the perpetrators are younger than 14 years of age.

Lawyers confirm the observations. In Rotterdam there are several cases where girls of 12 year have fallen vicitm to group-rapes or group sexual-assaults.In certain one case all ten suspetcs are youths. In another case one of the perpetrators was a 11 year old boy.

Statistics about vice-crimes with youths are not available, because such cases are left outside of publicity as much as possible.

According to all parties involved are almost all perpetrators "allochtone" jongens from bad neighborhoods. "White boys are solo-rapists", says De Pauw Gerlings. "Mostly it is a sore loser." Almost all vicitms are "autochtone" girls.

The criminal code offers only a few possiblities to handle youth vice-crulpits. Perpetratos up to 16 years can be senstenced to a maximum of 12 months. In the case of the 11 year old boy it cannot be used. He is too young to be punished by criminal law.

Most of these perpetrators are of Moroccan origine. The young childeren are the third generation of our original guest-workers. Many disco's and bars do not allow Moroccan people inside for a couple of years now, only when they get a pass for entrance. This is because there are so many complaints from female visitors that are being sexually assaulted inside these palces. Many of the Moroccans just cannot keep their hands of girls. With Turkish people the problem doesn't really exists. Of course there have been a lot of reports of discrimination filed for not allowing Moroccans in these palces, but because of the many incidents the Moroccans cause the anti-discrimination lobby cannot do anything about it.

More Jihad Walkers in the making. And also note how these people are making a differnce between islam and true islam. These people pioson the mind of young people to one day fight a jihad for an islamic state according to sharia. They want that the whole world is turned islamic and ruled like the Taliban did to Afghanistan!

I don't know what the Dutch are complaining about. Their highest value is non-judgementalism. They now lack all ethical basis for judging the followers of OBL.

I'm glad my family emigrated.

Of course there have been a lot of reports of discrimination filed for not allowing Moroccans in these palces, but because of the many incidents the Moroccans cause the anti-discrimination lobby cannot do anything about it.

What, the Dutch don't have their own version of the ACLU. Along with MacDonalds and Coke, we can give them that franchise also. In the interim, we can send Dipshowitz over there.

Just more reasons for what needs to be done: stop these islams now.

I just watched a special on Pearl Harbor, and was reminded of many things. For one, America took that attack so much more seriously than we have taken 911---yet fewer people were killed in the PH attack than in the WTC attack.

Perhaps in a world in which we are innured with violence and death---rampant, out-of-control crime in the streets, where police are report-takers, ceding entire areas of cities to gangs; abortion; Waco and Elian; etc.---it will take much more than three thousand deaths to make people realize that it's a bad, mean world out there, that all is not goodness and light. That there are bad people out there in the world who have zero-zilch-nada INKLING of the meaning of Judeo-Christian values, of mercy, of individualism, of freedom, of compassion. They understand only what animals understand: survival. Death. No amount of reasoning will work for someone whose world-view from birth is totally alien to the CIVLIZED (Western) world.

It's funny, but all the conservative Dutch must have emigrated to the west side of Michigan. The Dutch in this area seem to be 180 degrees different politically than their brethren in the mother country.

This is an excellent post though knighthawk. I understand that the Euroweenies in Brussels have written hate-crime type laws that make it illegal to denigrate other races or religions, even if the remarks are factual. If so, you'd better watch what you say over there.

Not denying that there are many problems with immigration it is still of importance that you get your facts right. There are no 1.5 million Muslims in the Netherlands. There are almost 3 million non-native inhabitants of the country. Of those, some 1.5 million or 'non-Western'immigrants. Of those, soem 600.000 come from Morocco and Turkey (the others come from mainly former colonies and the Netherlands'Antilles). We can assume those 600.000 are Muslim. Give it another 100.000 Muslims from other countries and we have a population of 700.000 Muslims. That is less than 5% of the population and NOT 10%, as you maintained. Facts are stubborn things. Try to get them right.

Islam is not about praying five times a day and be the same as everybody else. Islam is establishing a state according to the sharia.

Here's a happy thought from Middle East expert Daniel Pipes:

    Islamists constitute a small but significant minority of Muslims, perhaps 10 to 15 per cent of the
    population. Many of them are peaceable in appearance, but they all must be considered
    potential killers.

How does 400,000 to 600,000 -- in our country -- potential killers sound?

Pipes article here...

Muslim population in America

America's Fifth Column ... watch PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8 Mb zip file here (60 minute video)

Thanks NA, for the information you gave me in mid-November just before my wife and I left for Amsterdam. The people were terrific, and the sights were awesome. We stayed in Haarlem the first night, and then headed for Amsterdam. We also visited Edam, and the Hague. We were greatly impressed by the beauty of Amsterdam, and the friendly disposition of the people. If you're not interested in art, culture, good food, history, and beautifull sights, you wouldn't want to visit Amsterdam.

Hello again! Good to hear from you. And, of course, I am happy to hear you had a good time! Hopefully my rather limited tips were of some use to you. Did you manage to see the Concert Hall? Feel welcome anytime. And a merry Christmas to you and your family.

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