Posted on 11/27/2001 5:41:01 AM PST by Sir Gawain
20-Nov-2001
Dear Straight Dope:
Who or what were the giant sons of God (Nephilim) mentioned in the Bible and what happened to them? Depending on the author, they are refered to as sons of Seth, angels, aliens, monsters, and "weird hybrid offspring" that may have been wiped out in the flood. Were the ancient scribes jealous because they were just the big guys that got the good looking daughters? --Michael K.
SDSTAFF Dex replies:
Let's quote the text from Genesis 6. This is my own translation, combined from several sources, trying to retain the literal text. I'm telling you, at the Straight Dope you're dealing with professionals:
When men began to increase on earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw how beautiful the daughters of men were and took wives from among those that pleased them. The Lord said, "My breath shall not abide in man forever, since he too is flesh; let the days allowed him be one hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days and also after that, when the sons of God cohabited with the daughters of men, who bore them offspring. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown.
This is one of the strangest accounts in Genesis, and there is no certain explanation. The Hebrew text is obscure, possibly deliberately so, to downgrade any mythic tone. In the first chapters of Genesis, human beings strive to become divine, and God intervenes, so that mankind cannot be immortal. Here, the reverse happens, divine beings lower themselves to the level of humans, and again God intervenes.
It is very likely that the passages are only a fragment of what was once a longer narrative, or commonly told tale. Presumably, the Nephilim were described as "heroes of old" based on popular stories and tales. Depending on who you think wrote the text, either the longer story was lost by the time the Redactor got to editing the various texts centuries later, or Moses left out popular and well-known stories about ancient times and just referenced them in a way that appears cryptic to us.
Almost all pagan mythologies abound with legends about intercourse between gods and mortal women, and between goddesses and mortal men, producing demigods or heroes as children. There is also a common mythology that there once existed a race of men of gigantic stature of strength. The story here seems similar, but is still consistent with the overriding theme of monotheism: there is only one God who makes decisions. The offspring of such unions may have been heroic, but they are not divine, they are flesh and blood like all humans ("since he too is flesh"). The one God controls the breath of life.
So, for a start, who are the "sons of God"? The most popular interpretation is that they are divine beings, the angelic host, the celestial court, a poetic image taken from the analogy of human kings surrounded by their entourage. The term "the host of heaven" is also sometimes used in the Bible to mean the same thing.
Some translators use "sons of the great," since the term elohim in the Psalms often means "mighty." It would also be possible to read it as "sons of the gods," but that would be inconsistent with the monotheism of the text. On the other hand, "sons of God" may simply mean those who serve and love God. One interpretation is that the children of Seth are sometimes called "sons of God," and then the "daughters of men" might imply the daughters of Cain.
So, I repeat, the text is extremely unclear. By the way, note the implication that the sons of God are driven by lust (they are attracted to the mortal women by their beauty rather than their personalities or moral character). And, lest your mind wander in the gutters, the term is definitely "took wives," meaning were married--there is no implication of rape or coercion.
And, now, who were these Nephilim? The plain reading of the text indicates that they are the offspring of the misalliances between the divine beings and the daughters of men. The term "The Nephilim were in the earth in those days" would thus mean that the union of the sons of God and daughters of man gave birth to them. However, it is possible that the Nephilim existed separate from the intermarriages, and the term "were in the earth in those days" just sets the time-frame as antediluvian. (Hah! I've always wanted to use that word in context!)
The word Nephilim itself unclear; the obvious root N-F-L would imply they are "fallen ones," that is, fallen angels. The Septuagint (Greek translation of the Torah, from about 200 BC) translates Nephilim as "giants," likely based on the reference in Numbers 13:33 (see below) that Nephilim were "of great size." Thus, the term is commonly translated as giants or heroes.
I don't know if this helps you much. Who the Nephilim and the "sons of God" were is a matter of conjecture and interpretation, and there are lots of different interpretations. As to what happened to them, at least here we have consensus: they did not survive the Flood. The Flood story comes hot on the heels of these verses, and so the conjunction of the two stories implies the Nephilim and the marriage of the divine and mortal beings was part of the wickedness that was destroyed by the Flood.
As a footnote, the word Nephilim appears significantly only one other time in the Bible.
In Numbers 13:32-33, the Israelites send advance spies to scout out the land of Canaan. The spies report that "All the people we saw in it are men of great size; we saw the Nephilim there--the Anakites are part of the Nephilim--and we looked like grasshoppers to ourselves, and so we must have looked to them." Now, the problem with this description is that, if the biblical narrative is consistent, then the Nephilim would not have survived the Flood, so how would they have been around for the spies to see? The answer is that the spies were trying to instill fear in the hearts of the people, to discourage them from invading the land, and so they used poetic exaggeration. The term Nephilim was used for dramatic effect, as the term "Huns" was used to indicate Germans during the World Wars, centuries after there were no longer true Huns.
--SDSTAFF Dex Staff Reports are researched and written by members of the Straight Dope Science Advisory Board, Cecil's online auxiliary. Although the SDSAB does its best, these articles are edited by Ed Zotti, not Cecil, so accuracywise you'd better keep your fingers crossed.
Straight Dope Science Advisory Board
Interesting to say the least! He has pointed out things from God's word that surely suggests the signature of the holy spirit is written all over 66/40. (ie...Genesis 5)
I will encourage you all to check his site out just for the shear aspect of how interesting the FACTS he points out.
If you simply assume that God continued to create new people beyond Adam and Eve, this makes a lot of sense. The "sons of God" were those not born but created. That daughters being born is noteworthy suggests that women were being made some other way. This also solves the whole problem of how Cain could know his wife without her being his sister.
Question; If one of the curses to the woman in Genesis Chapter 3:16 was a increased sorrow in bringing forth children, were children born prior to the fall? and why did Eve (who was named Eve after that carastrophe) say she had gotten a man from the LORD when she bore Cain, could this mean daughters were born and not recorded (it seems the Bible records male geneaology for the record in the OT)? This of course does preclude that daughters were born prior to Cain's problems but after the fall.
You do raise an interesting issue however.
ROTFL! You may be on to something. But how do you explain Oscar?
Moreover, we have in these mighty men, the "men of renown," the explanation of the origin of the Greek mythology. That mythology was no mere invention of the human brain, but it grew out of the traditions, and memories, and legends of the doings of that mighty race of beings; and was gradually evolved out of the "heroes" of Gen. 6:4. The fact that they were supernatural in their origin formed an easy step to their being regarded as the demi-gods of the Greeks.
By the way, you can see that Chuck Missler has a sense of humor by having an "Alien Encounter" conference in Rosswell.
In who's eyes are these offspring heros and men of renown?
Farther down we learn that the world has grown so evil that God considers total anihilation of it. That every thought of men is evil, save for 8 souls.
This shows us that the "heros of old" and the "men of renown" are the perception of man, not that of God, and the fallen ones refered to are the (illegitimate)children of (once) Godly men, that have strayed from rightousness.
Tell ya frankly, I haven't the faintest idea.
Your question does seem to be in line with what Bullinger is saying here though.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
These are the Angels believed to have cohabitated with humans in the OT. One could argue this single verse out as simply as interjection by the Author. However, Jude and Paul both made mention of this event in Gen 6. Paul mention this in 1 Cor 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. This is a pretty cryptic verse, but in light of this subject it seems to fit very well.
There are two schools of thought when it come to Angels cohabitating with humans(a)Angels can not produce offspring through physical copulation (b)they can, or a least through some means of DNA manipulation.
It's all pretty interesting to study, for me at least, it answered some of the questions I had about Greek Mythology. As some of the posters have mentioned here, ancient peoples relied on stories and traditions (ie: Greeks).
It is my belief, Satan knew where his downfall would come through (the seed of the woman Gen 3:16), it would therefore seem reasonable that he would try to pollute the human bloodline to keep that from happening. He did this in Gen 6 and even after that. Remember, Joshua, Caleb and David had to complete killing these Giant remnants off. In some cases Israel was not even allowed to keep the spoils, like animals, it seems they were corrupted too. God supernaturally intervened to make this happen.
I often hear people saying, If God is so good, how could he command Israel to kill everything and everyone in these enemy camps? Simple to protect the human blood line so the Christ could be born from the seed of the woman, namely Mary.
Now I know this may seem controversial, but, it was the Holy Spirit that overshadowed Mary and she became with child (The Holy One of Israel, Jesus). Since Satan (and these Angels)has supernatural power, could they possibly have had the same power to corrupt the human seed in Gen Chapter 6? If Jude is any indication of Angels positions (estates), they seem to have left what they knew was right to do something very wrong. They paid the price, but not before much human suffering.
Sorry for the long post, there is just so much on this subject. If you are indeed interested in this subject, posters have listed some great links here, again, Eat the Meat and Leave the Bone, protect yourself with prayer.
God Bless
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