Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

ANTHRAX PROBE SHIFTS TO HOMEGROWN HATE GROUPS
New York Post ^ | 10/25/01 | MURRAY WEISS

Posted on 10/25/2001 2:14:28 AM PDT by kattracks

Edited on 05/26/2004 5:01:49 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Ultra-right-wing organizations - including a particular West Coast group - have become a key focus of the massive federal investigation into the murderous Anthrax attacks, The Post has learned.

Investigators have been zeroing in on members of several anti-government hate groups that they believe have obtained or attempted to get the deadly bacteria from several U.S.-based laboratories before it surfaced in Florida, Washington and New York this month.


(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Anthrax Scare; Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anthrax; domesticterrorism; letters
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 241-249 next last
To: Hugh Akston
A very, very interesting insight, and one I haven't seen here before. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes that the target was actually the postal system (that is, conventional communications within the US). The internet is probably, because of its non-physical nature and its dispersal, harder to attack; but shutting down mail communications, including things like the delivery of checks and invoices, could make us grind to a halt. Certainly, in many cases, these things could be replaced by electronic means (in the case of checks, electronic fund transfers, for example). But it certainly wouldn't be fast and it wouldn't be easy (or cheap).

Given the diversity and seeming lack of pattern in the targets, I think it's impossible to say that they were chosen for any reason except that they were prominent and attacks on them would get a lot of publicity. Attacking the communications media (with the significant omission of Arab-friendly CNN) is another indication of the fact that the intention was to spread this scare as fast as possible. Perhaps even choosing a scandal rag such as the Enquirer was a failed attempt - by someone who doesn't understand the US well enough to know that most of us look at the paper at the supermarket check-out and believe not a word it says - to spread this fear as rapidly as possible and halt communications within the US.

121 posted on 10/25/2001 6:23:48 AM PDT by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 109 | View Replies]

To: livius
Yeah. I think the media was picked to ensure that the fear would spread as far and wide as possible, because the media would play up an attack on itself.
122 posted on 10/25/2001 6:25:41 AM PDT by Hugh Akston
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: Hugh Akston
The "right wing extremists" are at once stupid enough to leave "obvious" clues in their letters and smart enough to reduce and depolarize anthrax spores to weapons grade material? Stupid enough to live in Trentont and smart enough to mail anthrax laden letters from Malaysia?

Right.

123 posted on 10/25/2001 6:26:31 AM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 117 | View Replies]

To: Hugh Akston
That is why I am putting my belief in it being tied in with the September 11th group.

I wouldn't put it past Atta to have written the letters prior to 9/11 and to have left them with someone else to mail.

124 posted on 10/25/2001 6:26:56 AM PDT by syriacus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 109 | View Replies]

To: Jim Noble
Thank you for sharing your expertise and I admit to being a layman in matters of infectous disease. I have the following questions.

Since inhalation seems to be the least common of of the possible anthrax infections can we not infer that the anthrax spores were manipulated in some way so that we are now faced with such a high percentage of inhalation anthrax? (yes I realize it is exactly the same microbe and only particle size is different).

May we not reasonably conclude that there would be rather extensive contamination at the site where the letters were prepared for mailing unless at least some relatively sophicticated measures including a negative air pressure containment system were used for loading the letters.

I do realize that anthrax is naturally occurring and has been freely shipped (at least until 1998) for research purposes but does it not take some relatively sophisticated equipment to overcome the clumping of spores into particle sizes greater than 5 microns?

Might we presume that the combined problems of creating an anthrax weapon that had a majority of the particles under 5 microns which is inferred from the number of inhalation anthrax cases proven and suspected indicate at least a very heavy knowledge of microbiology and several other disciplines including chemistry, phyiscs, and some engineering?

I discount the una-bomber theory on the basis that the multi-disciplinary knowledge and the difficulties this would pose for a single individual make this a beyond the capability of one nut case. As to a homegrown hate group all of the above problems apply to such a group but there are added problems of operational security within that group, probable prior FBI penetration of that group, a lack of demands from such a group, and the much higher probability of decfections from within that group after 09/11/01.

This article is a hatchet job and obvious disinformation. The larger questions are who is behind this article and why.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

125 posted on 10/25/2001 6:28:34 AM PDT by harpseal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: Hugh Akston
A choice only between domestic right wing types and domestic left wing types as being responsible for the anthrax attacks (IF domestic)?

HMMM since my guess is that the culprits are domestic Islamic student/scientist type(s), I would lump them into Left-Wing-Whak-O. There are many parallells to Islamic terrorist thinking and LWWO thinking.

All bets are off, sir!

126 posted on 10/25/2001 6:29:06 AM PDT by Guna
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies]

To: Guna
No no no. I tend to think it wasn't a domestic group at all, or if it was it was a domestic group working in concert with Bin Laden's group.

The bet is in the (unlikely in my mind) event that it does turn out to be a domestic group.

127 posted on 10/25/2001 6:30:39 AM PDT by Hugh Akston
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies]

To: America's Resolve
Van Zandt was the negotiator who tried to talk Koresh out. such a smart ass he wouldn't let any other experts help..he refused all help from negotiators familiar with Koresh's sect. If you've never heard him try to justify his actions, and his collosal failure, you can't imagine his arrogance. He was retired before Richard Jewell got screwed by the FBI and the media...but of course, more of his mind set was still in place.
128 posted on 10/25/2001 6:31:27 AM PDT by YaYa123
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 119 | View Replies]

To: harpseal
Forgive me but I am unsure how many total letters we're talking about.

Are there still anthrax-laced letters going through the mail?

When were the last known postmarks?

129 posted on 10/25/2001 6:36:27 AM PDT by Greatgrandma
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 125 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
"We must make a pledge to never send our children to the schools of the kuffar. We must remove our children from these schools and the cesspool of immorality and deviance that they have become....
We should understand that these public schools are set up and run by our open enemies. The curriculum is set by our open enemies. The policies and procedures is set by our open enemies. Once this is understood then what kind of Muslim would send his/her child to be educated by the enemy of Allah and His Rasul (saaws)?"....
"We must put the conspiracy evidence before the youth in clear and concise terms and then ask them who are the distributors and producers of the music that they listen to? Who are the producers of the television and movie entertainment that they watch?. Who are the proponents of liberalism and secularism in the society ?"....
"Because I work with the youth on a daily basis I observe them from a vantage point that even their parents don't have the opportunity to do so. I shudder when I reflect on the fact that while it took 400 years of slavery, the introduction of liberalism and the systematic erosion of family values and morals to reduce African-Americans to the level of deviancy that many of them are at today, after just one generation removed from their native lands, America has already corrupted so many immigrant Muslim youth."....
"What does this say about this America that Khomeini called the Great Shaitan? What does it say about it's influence on us and our youth? "

This was written by a "moderate" American Muslim on a popular Muslim American website in 1998. How could anyone conclude that a militant Muslim would not target the left, the media? The Muslim world abhors the spread of American "corrupt" culture and the influence they say it has on their communities.
A "Moderate" American Muslim Parent's View

130 posted on 10/25/2001 6:36:54 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
Ultra Right Wing/Ultra Left Wing...

Whether Right or Left, a lunatic fringe is a lunatic fringe capable of doing horrific things in furtherance of their agenda. Although I wish it were otherwise, domestic based evil cannot be excluded.

131 posted on 10/25/2001 6:42:10 AM PDT by verity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: harpseal
Can someone be sued for slander for blaming a whole group? Shame on Clint Van Zandt and shame on the NY Post. Will we ever clean out all the Clinton Rats and moles who are doing their best to hurt this administration and this country?

FoxNews now saying that Clinton received two vials of salmonella. I'd check his biotech connections first before considering the "right-wing." The most divisive man in the country would do anything for power and fame.

132 posted on 10/25/2001 6:45:14 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 125 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
Daschle represents the government...

Scariest statement in the quotes....

133 posted on 10/25/2001 6:46:09 AM PDT by Bigg Red
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
[Actually, there is an ultra left-wing organisation that ALREADY used antrhrax on its political enemies....]

THE MENA ANTHRAX POISONING CASE

On the weekend of September 21, 1991, Arkansas State Police Investigator Russell Welch met with IRS Investigator Bill Duncan to write a report on their Investigation of Mena drug smuggling and money laundering and send it to Iran-Contra prosecutor Lawrence Walsh. Investigator Welch had been ordered by Major Doug Stephens to meet with Duncan over the weekend in Arkansas Attorney General Winston Bryant's office. Welch had just opened a case concerning the theft of sexually explicit photographs which could have been used to blackmail state officials. On Friday, September 20, Welch went to one of the prisons near Pine Bluff and interviewed the person who had actually taken the photographs. A person whose best friend was very close to Barry Seal. The next morning, Saturday, he and his wife, Debbie Welch, made the three hour drive to Little Rock.

Returning to Mena on Sunday, Welch told his wife that he didn't feel too well. He thought he had gotten the flu. Monday the symptoms were worse. By Tuesday Welch was certain that he had a serious case of pneumonia. He had had pneumonia before and recognized the symptoms. Tuesday night he could hardly walk and his wife took him to the local hospital. The doctor gave him some over-the-counter cold tablets and sent him home.

But, Welch's condition deteriorated further to the point where his wife took him to another doctor in Mena the next day. Dr. Calleton, a Vietnam vet, immediately called the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta and told Welch's wife to get him to Fort Smith immediately. The doctor told her that he should go by ambulance but she might be able to get there faster if she left right then. He called the CDC one more time before they left.

In Fort Smith a team of doctors were waiting. Dr. Calleton had called them twice while Welch was in transport and they had been in contact with the CDC. Later the doctor would tell Welch's wife that he was on the edge of death. He would not have made it through the night had he not been in the hospital. He was having fever seizures by now.

A couple of days after Welch had been admitted to St. Edwards Mercy Hospital, his doctor was wheeling him to one of the labs for testing when she asked him if he was doing anything at work that was particularly dangerous. He told her that he had been a cop for about 15 years and that danger was probably inherent with the job description. She told Welch that they believed he had anthrax. She said the anthrax was the military kind that is used as an agent of biological warfare and that it was induced. Somebody had deliberately infected him. She added that they had many more test to run but they had already started treating him for anthrax.

It took Welch a while to digest what the doctor had told him. Welch knew that in his business if you couldn't document something and/or corroborate it somehow, then it never happened. The next day, in the hospital room, the doctor told Debbie Welch, that they believed her husband had military anthrax and they were going to treat him for it. The doctor also told Debbie that Russell was very sick now and it was going to get worse before it was over, because the disease was going to have to run its course. She was right. The following day Arkansas State Police Investigator Andy Wiley was in Welch's room and heard the doctor repeat the diagnosis. This time Welch told the doctor that he read about an outbreak of anthrax in some cattle in southeastern Arkansas a couple of weeks earlier. The doctor told Welch and his visitors that the warfare biological agent is not the same as the cow disease. She shook her finger in Welch's face and said emphatically, "No, somebody did this to you. Somebody sprayed you in the face." She described how the infectious agent is carried in canisters. She said, "This is the same stuff that Saddam Hussein was going to use on our troops." Investigator Wiley wrote down the names of Welch's medication and later confirmed that he was, in fact, being treated for anthrax. Other state police officers went to the hospital room, periodically, to help Debbie Welch, who stayed in the private room with her husband day and night for the entire 14 days that Welch was hospitalized. Investigator Charles Lambert and Investigator Bobby Walker were among those that heard the doctor discuss Welch's circumstances and the anthrax.

The treatment was very effective against the anthrax but had severe side effects. Welch suffered a partial kidney failure. The doctor said it was a calculated risk that she had to take when she decided to treat him for anthrax. Welch was a weight lifter and stayed in good shape. The doctor told him that if it hadn't been for that the chances are that he still might not have survived the disease. The doctor also credited his physical conditioning when he gained back most of the 40 percent of his renal functions which had been lost due to the anthrax treatment.

After this incident, Welch spent time trying to figure out how he could have gotten the anthrax. One possibility, he finally concluded, was through envelopes carrying padding material in which the infectious agent, Bacillus anthracis, can be transmitted. The Arkansas State Police used these for a while to mail microcassette tapes containing investigator's dictation. Welch's padded envelopes were returned to him with the tops torn off. When he complained to the secretary, Kim McBride, in Hope, Arkansas, she told him that the padded envelopes were not torn when she mailed them. Welch told his supervisor, Lt. Finis Duvall. Rather than do an investigation to find out who was tampering with official state police mail, some of which was sensitive, Lt. Duvall just said, "Well, I'll be damn... wonder who's doing that."

Last Fall a news team from a British television program called "The Big Story" traveled through Mena. The anchor for the show told Welch that he had worked for three years in South Africa. He said that sending biological warfare agents through the mail was a commonly used weapon during a particular ongoing war in that part of the world. After Welch got out of the hospital he never again received any torn envelopes.

Welch was discharged from the hospital on October 8, 1991. From there on, Welch's career in the State Police never was the same. He suffered harassment, transfers, unwarranted criticism, and public hearings of his performance. His superiors in the state police were concerned that he was answering questions from the press now that Bill Clinton was seeking the presidency. At one point he was interrogated about whether or not he was writing a book. After nineteen years of honorable service, solving difficult cases, being requested by victims and their families in other parts of the state to be assigned to their investigations, Welch was being humiliated like an enlistee in military bootcamp. All of this was being done at the hands of men appointed by Bill Clinton and Jim Guy Tucker. An honest cop just trying to do his job, Welch finally left the State Police on January 16, 1996. After 20 years on the force, he left a poor and disillusioned man.

Even though Welch and Duncan sent boxes of evidence to Lawrence Walsh in Washington, Walsh never showed any interest in Mena at all.

[Excerpt from the book "Mena - a tale of drugs and politics" scheduled for publication this summer.]

[Published in the April 1, 1996 issue of the Washington Weekly]

Copyright (c) 1996 The Washington Weekly (http://www.federal.com)

[Fortunate I found this. The Washington Weekly archive will be erased in a few days.]

Freegards....

134 posted on 10/25/2001 6:51:23 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brian Allen
IMO, the government is pretty well certain that it Saddam, but wants to put off the choice (to invoke or to back away from the WMD doctrine) for as long as possible -- preferably until we have Afghanistan down to the mopping-up stage.
135 posted on 10/25/2001 6:52:31 AM PDT by steve-b
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: livius
I think that disruption and rapid spread of the story were key - the known "targets" could all be guaranteed to call a press conference and tout their sudden importance.
More proof of this is in the dozens of reports of contamination and "only" a very few deaths or hospitilizations.
A pretty flimsy attack unless it intended only to scare and disrupt.

The domestic versus foreign thing just plain pi***s me off but we should be used to the media coming up with 'right wing' as their modifier of choice.
If internal ideology is involved it is far more useful to the left that this side show takes up 98% of the media attention - and that it might cause legislation to be passed durig another "right wing" scare.

Why is is so far impossible to suggest that there is a domestic, not "ethnically muslim" (easily profiled) support group for the islamic terrorists that we know pirated the aircraft?
Why have we so far avoided discussing possible involvement by an American (converted) islamic group - black or white?
(Is profiling so totally "bad" that even FR won't discuss it?)

There were internal (home grown) groups avidly supporting North Vietnam while we fought them, there were home grown allies working against the US for Germany, Japan, and the Soviet Union when that was appropriate.
OK, they are probably still there but this is a different war.
It would not take many otherwise invisible individuals to pull this stunt but the stunt itself is more out of the islamist play book than any militia or even racially based group that I've seen advertising.

I think that the offered six-pack will be moot when the source is found to be (a) domestic, (b) neither demonstrably right or left, but (c) somewhat aligned with the pox-on-all-their-houses enviro/anachist/'because that's what they do' wackos we saw in Seattle and elsewhere.
(anyone remember Al Capp's 'SWINE'?)

Final comment: an earlier thread discussed a book called "The True Believer" (Eric Hoffer - in the fifties)
I read that book in a college course that also addressed mass hysteria - consider how much of this srory is just that; hysteria, absent anthrax spores or baking powder, sustained by a media that is not yet ready to condemn Americn bombing of 'poor', 'starving', etc. foreigners. And, therefore, just what the Taliban or any other likely bad guy would dream of!

136 posted on 10/25/2001 6:52:55 AM PDT by norton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: Hugh Akston
I will bet anyone a six-pack of brew that IF it turns out to be a domestic group being responsible, it will turn out to be a far-left group.

Any takers?

I totally agree with you that this entire article is B.S. Personally, considering that the New York Post is hardly the most liberal newspaper in the world, I would tend to think of it more as "disinformation" than anything else.

To be completely fair though, I don't believe that these letters are the work of left-wing kooks any more than they're the work of right-wing kooks. It is definitely possible that there may be one or two "copycat letters" that were sent by Americans, but the inhaled anthrax letters that have killed three people so far are almost unquestionably linked to Middle Eastern terrorists.

137 posted on 10/25/2001 6:54:04 AM PDT by jpl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: jpl
Hence the IF.

I agree.

138 posted on 10/25/2001 6:55:37 AM PDT by Hugh Akston
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 137 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
You mean the anthrax has been tied to the DNC?
139 posted on 10/25/2001 6:57:19 AM PDT by Leesylvanian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Clinton's a rapist
The only way to keep their options open is to pretend that they are still trying to figure out who did it.

So targeting the so called "homegrown hate groups" is acceptable? I don't think so. I think the FBI is trying to justify a massive attack on our liberty. They just can't be trusted.

140 posted on 10/25/2001 6:57:26 AM PDT by FreePaul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 241-249 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson