Mary's Relationship with the Trinity

EWTN ^ | January 1996 | Pope John Paul II

[Salvation]

MARY’S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRINITY

Pope John Paul II

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Our Lady, who was granted the dignity of being the Mother of God, is also the favoured daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit

Mary "is endowed with the high office and dignity of the Mother of the Son of God, and therefore she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit" (Lumen gentium, n. 53). With this quote from the Second Vatican Council, the Holy Father expressed in concise form the Trinitarian dimension of Marian doctrine, which was the subject of his catechesis at the General Audience of Wednesday, 10 January. Here is a translation of his address, which was the 11th in the series on the Blessed Virgin and was given in Italian.

1. The eighth chapter of the Constitution Lumen gentium shows in the mystery of Christ the absolutely necessary reference to Marian doctrine. In this regard, the first words of the Introduction are significant: "Wishing in his supreme goodness and wisdom to effect the redemption of the world, 'when the fullness of time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman ... that we might receive the adoption of sons' (Gal 4:4-5)" (Lumen gentium, n. 52). This son is the Messiah awaited by the people of the Old Covenant, sent by the Father at a decisive moment of history, the "fullness of time" (Gal 4:4), which coincides with his birth in our world from a woman. She who brought the eternal Son of God to humanity can never be separated from him who is found at the centre of the divine plan carried out in history.

The primacy of Christ is shown forth in the Church, his Mystical Body: in her "the faithful are joined to Christ the Head and are in communion with all his saints" (cf. Lumen gentium, n. 52). It is Christ who draws all men to himself. Since in her maternal role she is closely united with her Son, Mary helps direct the gaze and heart of believers towards him.

She is the way that leads to Christ: indeed, she who "at the message of the angel received the Word of God in her heart and in her body" (Lumen gentium, n. 53) shows us how to receive into our lives the Son come down from heaven, teaching us to make Jesus the centre and the supreme "law" of our existence.

A unique bond between Mary and the Holy Spirit

2. Mary also helps us discover, at the origin of the whole work of salvation, the sovereign action of the Father who calls men to become sons in the one Son. Recalling the very beautiful expressions of the Letter to the Ephesians: "God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ" (Eph 2:4), the Council gives God the title "most merciful": the Son "born of a woman" is thus seen as the fruit of the Father's mercy and enables us to understand better how this Woman is the "mother of mercy".

In the same context, the Council also calls God "most wise", suggesting a particular attention to the close link between Mary and the divine wisdom, which in its mysterious plan willed the Virgin's motherhood.

3. The Council's text also reminds us of the unique bond uniting Mary with the Holy Spirit, using the words of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed which we recite in the Eucharistic liturgy: "For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man".

In expressing the unchanging faith of the Church, the Council reminds us that the marvellous incarnation of the Son took place in the Virgin Mary's womb without man's co-operation, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Introduction to the eighth chapter of Lumen gentium thus shows in a Trinitarian perspective an essential dimension of Marian doctrine. Everything in fact comes from the will of the Father, who has sent his Son into the world, revealing him to men and establishing him as the Head of the Church and the centre of history. This is a plan that was fulfilled by the Incarnation, the work of the Holy Spirit, but with the essential co-operation of a woman, the Virgin Mary, who thus became an integral part in the economy of communicating the Trinity to mankind.

4. Mary's threefold relationship with the divine Persons is confirmed in precise words and with a description of the characteristic relationship which links the Mother of the Lord to the Church: "She is endowed with the high office and dignity of the Mother of the Son of God, and therefore she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit" (Lumen gentium, n. 53).

Mary's fundamental dignity is that of being "Mother of the Son", which is expressed in Christian doctrine and devotion with the title "Mother of God".

This is a surprising term, which shows the humility of God's only-begotten Son in his Incarnation and, in connection with it, the most high privilege granted a creature who was called to give him birth in the flesh.

Mother of the Son, Mary is the "beloved daughter of the Father" in a unique way. She has been granted an utterly special likeness between her motherhood and the divine fatherhood.

And again: every Christian is a "temple of the Holy Spirit", according to the Apostle Paul's expression (1 Cor 6:19). But this assertion takes on an extraordinary meaning in Mary: in her the relationship with the Holy Spirit is enriched with a spousal dimension. I recalled this in the Encyclical Redemptoris Mater: "The Holy Spirit had already come down upon her, and she became his faithful spouse at the Annunciation, welcoming the Word of the true God..." (n. 26).

Mary's dignity surpasses that of every creature

5. Mary's privileged relationship with the Trinity therefore confers on her a dignity which far surpasses that of every other creature. The Council recalls this explicitly: because of this "gift of sublime grace" Mary "far surpasses all creatures" (Lumen gentium, n. 53). However, this most high dignity does not hinder Mary's solidarity with each of us. The Constitution Lumen gentium goes on to say: "But, being of the race of Adam, she is at the same time also united to all those who are to be saved" and she has been "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son" (ibid.).

Here we see the authentic meaning of Mary's privileges and of her extraordinary relationship with the Trinity: their purpose is to enable her to co-operate in the salvation of the human race. The immeasurable greatness of the Lord's Mother therefore remains a gift of God's love for all men. By proclaiming her "blessed" (Lk 1:48), generations praise the "great things" (Lk 1:49) the Almighty has done in her for humanity, "in remembrance of his mercy" (Lk 1:54). 

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Taken from:
L'Osservatore Romano
Weekly Edition in English
17 January 1996, page 11

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[Onelifetogive]

The mere fact that the Church teaches that something is definitely true is a guarantee that it is.

Unless, of course, it's not true, then, by definition, the Church never taught it, even if it did teach it.

I think I understand now!

[jboot]

If Mary had said no, Christ would not have come.

God's entire plan of salvation could have been derailed by a petulant girl? It's good he didn't catch her at that time of the month! At any rate, Mary did not have this option. Her decision (and all things pertaining to Christ) were foreordained by God and guided by His omnipotent will.

Acts 2
22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the
Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles
and wonders and signs which God performed through Him
in your midst, just as you yourselves know--
23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan
and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a
cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to
death.
24 "But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the
agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to
be held in its power.

[Onelifetogive]

The mere fact that the Church teaches that something is definitely true is a guarantee that it is true.

Can we come up with a list for this one?

1) The earth is flat. Galileo got in big trouble for doubting this "Church teaching."
2) Heretics should be burned at the stake. This Church teaching was true at one point...must still be true. Ouch! Quit, you're hurting me! Hey, that's hot!!! Stop that!!

More???

[Onelifetogive]

The punishment of original sin is the deprivation of the beatific vision.

And speaking as one who has had his beatific vision deprivated, it hurts!!!

[jboot]

Gospel of the Nativity of Mary 3:5

This is the best I could come up with on short notice. There might be a better verse in Infancy Thomas.

If you can find this book in your Bible (or anyone else's), I'll give you a quarter.

[NYer]

Chapter? Verse?

Genesis 3:15 and Luke 1:28

[drstevej]

***Genesis 3:15 and Luke 1:28***

Eisegesis = reading one's views into the text

[Hermann the Cherusker]

The punishment of original sin is the deprivation of the beatific vision.

Can you give me a reference from the Bible for this?

Not directly. But ...

Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3.5)

Whereunto baptism, being of the like form, now saveth you also (1 Peter 3.21)

Baptism is given as the only way into heaven to gain the vision of God.

But the fearful and unbelieving and the abominable and murderers and whoremongers and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, they shall have their portion in the pool burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. (Revelation 21.8)

Actual sin is shown as the only thing being punished by eternal torments "the second death" in the lake of fire. Cf. Galatians 5.19-21, 1 Cor. 6.9-10, Matthew 25.31-46.

Therefore, original sin deprives one only of the vision of God, but does not merit eternal torments.

No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the Bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1.18)

No amount of redemption can remove one from the effects of Original Sin.

Reference

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return. (Genesis 3.19)

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9.27)

To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband's power, and he shall have dominion over thee. (Genesis 3.16)

Yet she shall be saved through child bearing; if she continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety. (1 Timothy 2.15)

Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord: Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. (Ephesians 5.22-23)

It sure doesn't look like redemption has removed the punishments of original sin from us, at least if you bother to read the Bible.

And God cannot coezist with sin.

This one is SOOOOOOO unscriptural!!!

There shall not enter into it any thing defiled or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie (Revelation 21.27)

And this is the declaration which we have heard from him and declare unto you: That God is light and in him there is no darkness. (1 John 1.5)

God cannot coexist with sinners and their sins. This is why sinners cannto go to heaven, no matter how much God might love them as His creatures.

So it is difficult to understand how God could dwell within the womb of a sinner.

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

God only dwells within those in a state of grace. When you commit sin, God leaves your soul, just as surely as he left the Temple of Israel when Israel fell into corruption. Don't you get the parallel here?

He that hath my commandments and keepeth them; he it is that loveth me. And he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him and will manifest myself to him. (John 14.21)

Jesus answered and said to him: If any one love me, he will keep my word. And my Father will love him and we will come to him and will make our abode with him. (John 14.23)

As the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love: as I also have kept my Father's commandments and do abide in his love. (John 15.9-10)

By whom he hath given us most great and precious promises: that by these you may be made partakers of the divine nature: flying the corruption of that concupiscence which is in the world. (2 Peter 1.4)

The Holy Trinity only dwells within those who keep God's word, His Commandments. As I said, it is difficult to understand how God could physically dwell within the womb of a sinner.

You would do well to do less imagining and less listening to people who make things up and more reading of the Bible.

You'd do well to actually read the whole Bible, and not selected verses beloved and manipulated by Protestants.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Why aren't NYer's views just as valid as any other persons according to Prestant private interpretation theories? Who made you the arbiter of Biblical meaning?

[Hermann the Cherusker]

So you deny free will - we are all automatons?

[NYer]

Eisegesis = reading one's views into the text

God speaks to his Church through the Bible and through sacred Tradition. To make sure we understand him, he guides the Church’s teaching authority—the magisterium—so it always interprets the Bible and Tradition accurately. This is the gift of infallibility.

• The Fathers call Mary the tabernacle exempt from defilement and corruption (Hippolytus, "Ontt. in illud, Dominus pascit me");
• Origen calls her worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, most complete sanctity, perfect justice, neither deceived by the persuasion of the serpent, nor infected with his poisonous breathings ("Hom. i in diversa");
• Ambrose says she is incorrupt, a virgin immune through grace from every stain of sin ("Sermo xxii in Ps. cxviii);
• Maximum of Turin calls her a dwelling fit for Christ, not because of her habit of body, but because of original grace ("Nom. viii de Natali Domini");
• Theodotus of Ancyra terms her a virgin innocent, without spot, void of culpability, holy in body and in soul, a lily springing among thorns, untaught the ills of Eve nor was there any communion in her of light with darkness, and, when not yet born, she was consecrated to God ("Orat. in S. Dei Genitr.").
• In refuting Pelagius St. Augustine declares that all the just have truly known of sin "except the Holy Virgin Mary, of whom, for the honour of the Lord, I will have no question whatever where sin is concerned" (De naturâ et gratiâ 36).
• Mary was pledged to Christ (Peter Chrysologus, "Sermo cxl de Annunt. B.M.V.");
• it is evident and notorious notorious that she was pure from eternity, exempt from every defect (Typicon S. Sabae);
• she was formed without any stain (St. Proclus, "Laudatio in S. Dei Gen. ort.", I, 3);
• she was created in a condition more sublime and glorious than all other natures (Theodorus of Jerusalem in Mansi, XII, 1140);
• when the Virgin Mother of God was to be born of Anne, nature did not dare to anticipate the germ of grace, but remained devoid of fruit (John Damascene, "Hom. i in B. V. Nativ.", ii).
• The Syrian Fathers never tire of extolling the sinlessness of Mary. St. Ephraem considers no terms of eulogy too high to describe the excellence of Mary's grace and sanctity: "Most holy Lady, Mother of God, alone most pure in soul and body, alone exceeding all perfection of purity ...., alone made in thy entirety the home of all the graces of the Most Holy Spirit, and hence exceeding beyond all compare even the angelic virtues in purity and sanctity of soul and body . . . . my Lady most holy, all-pure, all-immaculate, all-stainless, all-undefiled, all-incorrupt, all-inviolate spotless robe of Him Who clothes Himself with light as with a garment . ... flower unfading, purple woven by God, alone most immaculate" ("Precationes ad Deiparam" in Opp. Graec. Lat., III, 524-37).
• To St. Ephraem she was as innocent as Eve before her fall, a virgin most estranged from every stain of sin, more holy than the Seraphim, the sealed fountain of the Holy Ghost, the pure seed of God, ever in body and in mind intact and immaculate ("Carmina Nisibena").
• Jacob of Sarug says that "the very fact that God has elected her proves that none was ever holier than Mary; if any stain had disfigured her soul, if any other virgin had been purer and holier, God would have selected her and rejected Mary". It seems, however, that Jacob of Sarug, if he had any clear idea of the doctrine of sin, held that Mary was perfectly pure from original sin ("the sentence against Adam and Eve") at the Annunciation.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Galileo was condemned for denying the Biblical teaching that the Sun moves, and that therefore, the sun could be made to stand still. Are you agreeing with this novelty?

And what's wrong with burning heretics? Its not like it is against the will of the Holy Spirit.

If any one abide not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch and shall wither: and they shall gather him up and cast him into the fire: and he burneth. (John 15.6)

Wizards thou shalt not suffer to live. (Exodus 22.18)

A man, or woman, in whom there is a pythonical or divining spirit, dying let them die. They shall stone them. Their blood be upon them. (Leviticus 20.27)

[jboot]

So you deny free will

No, but human will is subordinate to both Divine will AND foreknowledge. God knew that Mary would consent to bear Jesus before the foundation of the world, and had already planned accordingly based on that foreknowledge. Had she not been willing, God would have always known and raised up another in her place.

Any other configuration ties God's hands and blindfolds Him. I can just imagine God waiting for word back from Gabriel, biting His nails and pacing between the seraphim, with the salvation of the human race resting on the fickle will of a human girl. If you accept anything close to this version of events, it is no wonder that you place such overwhelming significance on Mary.

You do believe in an omnipotent, sovereign God, right?

[Hermann the Cherusker]

No, but human will is subordinate to both Divine will AND foreknowledge. God knew that Mary would consent to bear Jesus before the foundation of the world, and had already planned accordingly based on that foreknowledge. Had she not been willing, God would have always known and raised up another in her place.

Much more eloquently than I ever could have said it, you have laid down the exact reasons for the Immaculate Conception of Blessed Mary.

I don't disagree with anything you said. God ordained Mary to glory and prepared her accordingly, then she cooperated because of the grace she received that enabled her to conform her will to the will of God.

With all that preparation, it is only fitting that God made Mary the most beautiful and radiant female ever created, both in soul and body. She was immaculate in soul and body, that she might fittingly carry and nurse the Divine Word, and she was comely in soul and body that she might be the favorite of God and man for all time, and give to Jesus the fairest of countenances. Her creation was the great delight of the Almighty, for she is His finest work. What Father would do any less for "... my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Matthew 3.17)

"O fairest among women" - Song of Songs 1.7
"Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee." - Song of Songs 4.7
"What manner of one is thy beloved of the beloved, O thou most beautiful among women?" - Song of Songs 5.9
"Thou art beautiful, O my love, sweet and comely as Jerusalem terrible as an army set in array." - Song of Songs 6.3
"One is my dove, my perfect one is but one, she is the only one of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her. The daughters saw her, and declared her most blessed: the queens and concubines, and they praised her." - Song of Songs 6.8
"How beautiful art thou, and how comely, my dearest, in delights!" - Song of Songs 7.6

[drstevej]

Have you been able to read my previous posts and understand them? Or must Rome read my posts and explain them to you?

I am awaiting you or NYer to show how the verses cites clearly teach the RC dogmatic positions. My comment was that many Marian doctrines are extrapolations and eisegesis. The response is to show exegetically that the verses teach what is claimed.

[DIGSongs]

Perhaps you should consider Jesus' response in Luke 11:27-28 to the woman from the crowd who said: "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you." He replied, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the Word of God and obey it."

Seems to me that Jesus had the perfect opportunity here to confirm the subsequent Catholic myth of the "blessedness" of Mary. Instead, He directly contradicts that view.

As a side comment, this two-verse portion of scripture bears no obvious relationship to the sections before and after it -- suggesting to me an intentional highlighting of its importance.

[Blzbba]

"In accord with such assimilation, many believe that the worship of the Madonna in Catholicism had its roots in the veneration of the Goddess Diana from pre-Christian Roman cults. The celebration of Easter, with eggs and bunnies, remains a holdover of former fertility rites celebrating the Pagan Spring. Such adaptions of superficial, crowd-pleasing, rites and pastimes merely suggest how pagan activities are hidden just beneath the surface of Judeo-Christian culture. "


There were positive political and social consequences in appeasing conquered "pagan" populaces by incorporating some of thier customs into Christianity. Almost all of the symbols of Christmas have zero Biblical origins - trees, Satan Clause, mistletoe, stockings...

Romans chose to allow the converted pagans to keep these traditions, rather than run the risk of an angry populace revolting because some Centurion tore down the Christmas tree. Yur post is dead-on.

[Blzbba]

"You would do well to do less imagining and less listening to people who make things up and more reading of the Bible."


Without taking offense...

Is the Bible the ONLY reference for Christianity? Are you 100% sure - and can prove it - that God has NOT spoken to anyone re:His teachings in over 2000 years? Can you prove to me -- beyond the shadow of doubt -- that the hundreds of Biblical revisions were performed by people with no hidden agenda, and that unlike any other task performed by humanity, these revisions and translations were Perfect and without Flaw?

Obviously, a "no" answer is extremely detrimental to Protestant argument.

Note: I'm a former Catholic who left the Church for myriad reasons, but have not chosen to be Protestant because I personally answer "No" to too many of my questions above.

Thanks for your answer and not taking offense.

[Onelifetogive]

Without taking offense...

None taken, I love a good discussion.

Is the Bible the ONLY reference for Christianity? Are you 100% sure - and can prove it - that God has NOT spoken to anyone re:His teachings in over 2000 years? Can you prove to me -- beyond the shadow of doubt -- that the hundreds of Biblical revisions were performed by people with no hidden agenda, and that unlike any other task performed by humanity, these revisions and translations were Perfect and without Flaw?

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

From Galatians 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

What do these mean to me??

1) The book of John (at least) was written that I can understand Christianity and have "life." (i.e. it alone is sufficient)

2) People will pervert the gospel - expect it.

3)I am supposed to believe what Paul taught the Galatians - no more, no less! (This is important! If God reveals something new to someone today, this scripture would be in error.) What is my best opportunity to know what Paul taught the Galatians. The writings of Paul and the other leaders of the early church or the thousands of things invented by men since them.

Lastly: My favorite scripture: Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Several points from this one: 1) It is noble to listen to preachers. 2) It is noble to verify what they teach for yourself from the scriptures.

If God wants us to Study the scriptures for ourselves, he should do His omnipotent part in keeping them free of error.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Luke instructs you to call Mary Blessed; Luke 1:48. If you've done such a thorough job of searching Scripture why are you not obedient? Quite arrogant and hypocritical of you. Peter thinks so, 2 Peter 3:16.

You're already your own pope. Thankfully, you'll never be our Pope.