Posted on 09/30/2002 9:19:01 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
VENTURA, Calif. -- Pollster George Barna, known these days as the bearer of bad tidings about the state of Christianity in America, arrived in his office a few minutes late for a 10 a.m. appointment.
His hair was ruffled; his eyes puffy. Shoulders slouched. Being the George Gallup of the conservative evangelical world is a heavy burden for Barna, who often works into the early morning, deciphering numbers generated by his surveys to find church trends.
The 48-year-old author of 30 books, who describes himself as a raging introvert, is a popular national speaker. And he produces enough in-your-face statistics and blunt talk to irritate pastors, cost him business and earn a reputation for having, as one magazine put it, "the gift of discouragement."
His data undercut some of the core beliefs that should, by definition, set evangelicals apart from their more liberal brethren. Findings of his polls show, for example, that:
• The divorce rate is no different for born-again Christians than for those who do not consider themselves religious.
• Only a minority of born-again adults (44 percent) and a tiny proportion of born-again teenagers (9 percent) are certain that absolute moral truth exists.
• Most Christians' votes are influenced more by economic self-interest than by spiritual and moral values.
• Desiring to have a close, personal relationship with God ranks sixth among the 21 life goals tested among born-agains, trailing such desires as "living a comfortable lifestyle."
'Are people's lives being transformed" by Christianity? Barna has asked. "We can't find evidence of a transformation."
Even Barna's toughest critics concede that Barna Research Group's polls carry considerable weight because of his first-rate surveying techniques and his 17-year-long record of tracking church and cultural trends.
His work has been used by major companies (Ford Motor Co. and Walt Disney, for example) and religious organizations such as the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and World Vision.
"He is the accepted authority on church trends," said Bob Cavin, director of the Texas Baptist Leadership Center. "He gives pastors insight, not only into the effectiveness of the church, but with trends in society that help the pastors with their strategic planning."
Because of his influence, many are watching with interest as Barna branches out from his usual business. He has been preoccupied with quantifying contemporary Christian beliefs, attitudes and practices; comparing them with biblical truths; and delivering the results to pastors, Christian leaders and laity. He said that he once hoped his analyses would be used as building blocks for more relevant churches.
But he decided this year to take a more active role by helping to identify and develop new and better church leaders who will boldly go where their predecessors haven't gone before: to radically revamp the church. He said he believes the process will take decades -- generations -- to complete.
"One of our challenges is to revisit the structures and means through which people experience Christ," Barna said. "People have been talking about developing the 'new church' for the past several decades, but nothing new has been forthcoming."
According to Barna, pastors are great teachers, but not necessarily adept at leadership. To back up his claim, he cited one of his own polls: It showed that only 12 percent of senior pastors say they have the spiritual gift of leadership and 8 percent say they have the gift of evangelism. In contrast, two-thirds say they have the gift of teaching or preaching.
"We, not God, have created a system that doesn't work and that we're reluctant to change."
Barna also is in the early stages of establishing a genuine and appealing Christian presence in secular entities: film, music, media and politics. He has identified these as the institutions that hold the most influence over Americans.
What's needed are "skilled professionals who love Christ and model his ways through their thoughts, words and behavior in enviable and biblically consistent ways," he said.
For Barna, the need for better leadership and better Christian role models in the secular world was underscored by a poll he released this month.
9/11 opportunity lost
The survey showed that the Sept. 11 attacks had virtually no lasting effects on America's faith, despite a 20 percent rise in church attendance during the first few weeks afterward.
"We missed a huge opportunity," he said, adding that, because of their own shallow faith, church regulars needed so much reassurance themselves that they couldn't minister to newcomers.
This kind of comment bothers evangelical Christians.
Mike Regele, author of "The Death of the Church," is one of many who believe the Barna Research Group's statistical work is excellent, but the conclusions drawn by the company's founder are too harsh.
The hypocrisy of Christians, Regele said, "has been a part of the church, probably since the day of Pentecost" and doesn't indicate its collapse.
"It sounds like he's very, very angry at the church," said Regele, a church critic himself who is ultimately an optimist. "There are reasons to be disappointed, but scripture never said we'd be perfect. We shouldn't view the whole institution as a failure."
With each new Barna poll or book, the attacks begin again: He's too negative; he has it in for pastors; he's arrogant.
The criticism "would affect any human being," said Barna, a husband and father of two. "We all want to be loved and accepted by others, but we also have a higher calling to which we each must be true."
Barna said he has learned painfully that giving advice on how to revitalize churches in America is a hugely complex proposition that doesn't fit well into sound bites. He has learned to be more guarded.
Although his statistics often show self-described Christians living lives no different from those of atheists, Barna's faith never has wavered.
"The issue isn't whether Jesus or Christianity is real," he said. "The issue is, are Americans willing to put Christ first in their lives?
Hey, I just asked you a straight question, are ya gonna answer? Do you consider your family that is catholic saved? And if not do you tell them they are deceieved and goin to hell?
BigMack
Personally, I don't think Calvinism acts as a block to evangelization. I was asked by theAmbassador what about Calvinism could people say precludes evangelism.
I gave him an example of someone taking Irresistable Grace to an unreasonable extreme in order to make a charge against Calvinism.
Ok, I won't call him fake anymore, but his claim to have "thorough" knowledge of the Holy Torah I am calling fake until he proves otherwise. This question about one of the twelve tribes is basic knowledge. Perhaps it will provoke him to jealousy to actually study the Word, something that he should have a true passion for already. For my money, I'll say that the calvinist Woody finds it first.
My handy dandy "Stone Edition of the Chumash" tells me this.
This reflects Issachars spiritual role as bearer of the yoke of Torrah and cultivating of the spiritual treasures of the people. Rashi
He rest between two boundaries. The Torah Sages toil day and night in their studies without formal rest, but they are spiritually tranquil (Shaaeri Aharron).
Does this make me a Jew? Poor angelo, he missed out because he didn’t have the right commentary.
(^g^) JH
BigMack
We must remember, grasshopper, that to the unreasonable extremist the unreasonable extreme is the middle of the road.
(Now what the hell am I talking about?) LOL
SD
JH to you, and how's dad today?
(^g^) JH
Absolutely not. We need to know who exactly we are worshiping, lest we become like the Athenians who put up statues to An Unknown God. Or we become like the Mormons who worship a false Christ.
Listen, God have us brains for a reason. For hundreds and hundreds of years Theology was taught in Universities, not as a philosophy but as a science. Right along with all the other natural sciences as well. I used to think that becoming a Christian meant committing intellectual suicide; now I know that nothing is further from the truth (literally).
Now, with all that being said, while I do not think that the experiential aspect of Christianity is more important than the doctrinal aspect, what I do know is that we could know all the docrine in the world, but we really do need the experiential aspects of Christianity for us to truly know something about God. They really do work hand in hand. You can study all the maps of the ocean you want, but nothing will prepare you for actually seeing it (or better, actually swimming in it) for yourself (and, yes, I did steal that example from Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis)
Unfortunatly, what has happened is that hugely important experiential traditions, Judeo-Christian traditions like meditation have been usurped over the centuries by other religions, cults, various movements and just plain non-believers. To such an extent that today, for me to even mention "Christian meditation" suddenly labels me as some kind of New-Agey-mistaken-heretic sorely in need of some "serious" Bible study.
This, of course flies directly in the face of many of the Psalms: "Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked...But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he mediates day and night. (1:1,2)
"Oh how I love your law, I meditate on it all day long" (119:97)
c.f. 63:6, 119:148, Genesis 24:63, 1 Sam 3:1-18
I can't tell you the positive impact Celebration of Discipline by Richard Foster has had on my life. If you want a really good primer on real experiential aspects of Christianity (something waaaay more substantial that just the typical speaking-in-tounges-then-falling-down sillyness) I highly recommend it.
All people have a God-sized hole in them, and we all are struggling to fill it with something, anything; spiritual or physical, healthy or detructive, whatever we can do to try to fill that void, that emptiness within us. Unfortunately anything other than the one true God, the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob will not fill that hole.
Keep that in mind the next time you drive past any mosque, temple or mall. You do know that shopping malls are the new temples right? The next time you are wandering around your local mall, try looking at it in terms of merely being a large temple, something akin to what the Egyptians or Greeks would have built, devoted to the god of commerce.
Shopping is the new religion, and the mall is where the faithful go to worship.
What comment are you referring to?
Abimelech is spiritually dead and is still talking with God!
Now, when I or Xzins bring up the fact that God can shed light into the spiritually dead so they can understand the Gospel, your retort is 'can a corpse understand anything'?
Here is a man with a 'dead' spirit 'understanding' what God wants him to understand.
That is our contention that the light of the Gospel can be understood by the unbeliever because God wants him to understand it.
It is your contention that the man must be regenerated first because 'corpses' cannot understand anything.
A surprise that God chose to directly speak to him...no God was acting to protect his elect..after all God once talked through a donkey. He is God and can use His creation as He wishes..
Well, that is what myself and Xzins (and others) have told you, that God can give the truth of His gospel and it can reach spiritually dead men so that they understand it and can make a choice to accept it or reject it.
I hope that next month we will not here about Lazarus coming forth as an analogy of the spiritually dead man!
But we will! :>)
There is no indication that he became an observant Jew from that encounter...
Ugh? So what?
He was spiritually dead and communicated with God (without being regenerated first) and did as God commanded him to do (he feared God) something that Calvinists say is not possible to a spiritually dead man.
It is you who limit God when you say that God has to regenerate first before the man can respond to the Gospel, since a spiritually dead man cannot understand God.
That spiritually dead man understood God and obeyed him!
He better now, after we got him home from the hospital from the cigarette burns you put on him, that he got when he came to visit you.
BigMack
They know my thoughts on it Mack it has been discussed frequently over 26 years ...but ya know what that is Gods business not mine..I am not leaving tracts around the house I am trusting the Justice and Mercy of God .
So do you think Beckys family is saved? Or do you prefer to pretend they are so as not to offend?
BTW 5 of my 7 Chhildren are out of the Catholic church (only one is "actively" RC and he reject half of their doctrine )..My sisters and nieces and nephew are also out
Kairos
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