[theAmbassador]

I think that Irresistable Grace, if taken to a ridiculous extreme, would cause some to say, "If God's Grace is Irresistable, then why should I bother witnessing to my neighbor. Either they are Elect or they are not, nothing I do can change that."

Yeah, it is called hyper-Calvinism and it is just as bad as Arminianism.

But that does absolutely nothing to show why Calvinism is inconsistent with the preaching of the gospel. The problem here is that you know that there are inconsistent Arminians that preach the gospel as if God is sovereign over salvation, even praying that God would move upon them, but you can't find any Calvinists who have any confidence in man's "free-will". Thank God for such Arminians. Are you one of these?

The closest you will get to a "free-will" Calvinist are those Baptist Calminians (if I remember the term correctly) who are just cowardly Arminians and like to believe in the Preservation and Perserverance of the saints for all the wrong reasons. I have even heard one with my own ears after preaching something resembling the gospel say: "all you have to do is say the words and you are saved."

We Calvinists happen to actually believe in the concept of "instant conversion (if I remember John Calvin correctly)" and so we have faith in God that our own eyes can see the regeneration of dry bones as we preach the gospel. Its that whole faith comes by hearing the Word kind of thing.

[ksen]

I'm heading home now, but I'll answer your post tonight.

[ksen]

But that does absolutely nothing to show why Calvinism is inconsistent with the preaching of the gospel.

I wasn’t trying to say that Calvinism was “inconsistent with the preaching of the Gospel.” What I was trying to point out was that just like jude24 was making a comment about Arminianism, an Arminiast(?) could make the same claim about Calvinism, if you get my meaning.

The problem here is that you know that there are inconsistent Arminians that preach the gospel as if God is sovereign over salvation, even praying that God would move upon them, but you can't find any Calvinists who have any confidence in man's "free-will".

I suppose so. This I do know, if there are human beings involved you will have inconsistency and hypocrisy, count on it.

Thank God for such Arminians. Are you one of these?

Hoo boy, here goes.

Like I said, I fall in between the Calvinist and Arminiast camps. I believe both are true. ‘But how can that be’ you ask. Well, I will tell you.

God has three basic attributes(I’m sure you can come up with more, but I am focusing on these three). His first attribute is His Omnipotence. God is all-powerful. There is nothing God cannot do.

Secondly, God is Omniscient. He knows everything. There is nothing God does not know.

Thirdly, God is Omnitemporal. God is everywhere at the same time, and He is also everywhen at the same time. God is. To speak of God “looking into the future” or “remembering the past” is absurd if you think about it. There is no future or past with God. There is only the constant “now.”

Ecc. 3:15 illustrates this attribute of God by saying, “That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.”

Let’s take that attribute of God and see how predestination and free-will interact. I was saved on November 11, 1992. On November 10, 1992 I was a hell-bound sinner like the majority of humanity. However something happened to change that, I came to believe in Jesus Christ as my Saviour. From my perspective there had been a change in my position. The change was from a hell-bound sinner to a Heaven-bound Saint.

Let’s move on to God’s perspective. He decides to create the Universe. He counts the cost. God does not start a Creation and wait to see how it turns out. God is present at every event of the Creation at the same “time”(if we can still use that term when speaking about God). The Bible tells us that God does not change. When God created the Universe He knows my decision, He knows I am His. From the Eternal, I have always been His. There has not been a change in my status, indeed there cannot be a change in my status before God because if there were than that would cause Him to change and we know He does not change.

To God my decision is irrelevant because I am His, from the beginning of Time on into Eternity. Since I am His, He has predestinated me to become conformed into the image of His Son, Jesus Christ, and so on and so forth.

To me my decision is everything. Without my belief in Jesus Christ as payment for my sins I am destined for Hell, and rightly so.

Well this post has gone on long enough. If you would like me to clarify something, just ask. I’ll be happy to try. ;^)