Posted on 09/10/2023 7:50:37 PM PDT by MurphsLaw
——>I sure do NOT read it that way!!
It probably goes back to the way you feel about/treat God’s law. Same with all OSAS/OJAJ. It is an open revolt on the law of God.
You refuse to acknowledge the NEW COVENANT, and especially the fact that it’s based on God’s 10 commandment law, the same law as in the Old Covenant.
Elsie, it’s RATIFIED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. I don’t know why it’s so hard to understand. Oh, I know, it’s that law thing that you have a problem with, right? Right.
No NEW COVENANT, no BOL, no heaven.
And, in your church, does you pastor preach “faith (believing) without works is dead”? I don’t think so. You keep telling me that one can simply believe their way into heaven, WITHOUT works. That is unfortunate.
And let me make this very clear, AGAIN...
Saved by Grace means all PAST sins forgiven. That is faith unto salvation. At that moment, YOU ARE BLAMELESS, white as snow, no longer UNDER CONDEMNATION OF THE LAW. No works involved. Only believing/faith. THEN, you are judged on works as you live out your life for Christ, as you PROFESS Christ.
Continuing in a pattern of willful sin, AFTER GRACE, is addressed here:
Hebrews 10:
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
No.
That's how you read things; right?
To see if they match up with how you feel?
I tell you nothing.
What I do do is post Scripture that states certain things - or not.
In the John 28-29... passage, Jesus tells the folks what they MUST do.
He did NOT state, "OOps; there'll be some things you are required to do, and I'll let someone else try to convince you later."
No need, as you were clear the first (or second, third...) time.
Clear, but not very convincing.
Nope - you are STILL 'judged' on faith.
You seem to like Hebrews...
Chapter 3
11 So I swore on oath in My anger, ‘They shall never enter My rest.’ ” 12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.
——>Nope - you are STILL ‘judged’ on faith.
A “working” faith.
Most Christians I know would BOLDLY stand up to an issue like this, challenging their very core belief in OSAS at Grace. But not you. Metmom is another one, with Sola Scriptura and keeping Sunday as her Sabbath (you too). Dodge and refuse to address. Maybe no one will notice and people (me) will stop asking. Nope. How many years have I said OSAS/OJAJ is a lie? Here’s you chance, Elsie. I don’t know why you just can’t give a serious answer?
(To All) If Elsie won’t answer (not can’t, because he can), anyone feel free to chime in. Oh, and talk about the New Covenant we’re all under now, if you want. Elsie won’t talk about that either. Says it’s for the Jews. Yet, Christ states the following, about the Lord’s Supper, in Matthew 26:27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28FOR THIS IS MY BLOOD OF THE NEW COVENNAT, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Romans 3:24-25 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God.
2 Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his OLD SINS.
Hebrews 9:15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free FROM THE SINS COMMITTED UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT.
This is because your memory is poor.
I replied (who knows when) that OSAS is true.
And I have also replied that OSAS is false.
What more do you want from me?
Strange, as I was NEVER under the FIRST COVENANT.
I wonder who was??
Strange, as I was NEVER under the FIRST COVENANT.
I wonder who was??
The people God chose to represent Him to all the world. They messed up. The “church” now takes up that role, AS A CONTINUATION OF ISRAEL, seed of Abraham, etc...
Strange, as I was NEVER under the FIRST COVENANT.
I wonder who was??
The people God chose to represent Him to all the world. They messed up. The “church” now takes up that role, AS A CONTINUATION OF ISRAEL, seed of Abraham, etc...
Matthew 26:
27Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28For this is My blood of THE NEW COVENANT, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Do you know of any literal practitioners of Judaism, that deny Christ as their Savior, that partake in communion, and especially the Lord’s Supper, drinking in remembrance of the blood of Christ, as representative in the NEW COVENANT?
No. That is a completely Christian institution. Or, are you not a Christian?
When you drink from the cup at communion, doesn’t your pastor quote that text? Mine does.
The House of Israel, House of Judah REJECTED the New Covenant and Christ as their Savior, confirmed with them for the last week of Daniel’s 70 week prophecy. 7 years of ministering ONLY to the Jews. That was ALWAYS God’s plan for the Jews, that they would accept Christ. The “Gospel” then went to the Godless Gentiles. The Christian church, AS A CONTINUATION OF ISRAEL, grafted into the vine, the seed of Abraham, keeps the New Covenant and partakes in communion, INCLUDING the Lord’s Supper.
The terms of the New Covenant (agreement between parties) are very simple.
Hebrews 8:
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.
Elsie, do you, as a Christian, claim the blood of Christ and the NEW COVENANT? If you don’t claim the New Covenant, the Blood of Christ and communion is meaningless.
I listed these 3 verses, and my question is, do they clearly state that GRACE (faith unto salvation), THE BLOOD OF CHRIST, what Christ accomplished on the cross, FORGIVES PAST SIN ONLY? If you say no, seeing how clear the texts are (sins that are past, old sins, from the sins committed under the old covenant), then WHY and HOW could you disagree with such clear language? Feel free to ping your buddies, like METMOM, and the resident Bible College expert, for their opinions.
Romans 3:24-25 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God.
2 Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his OLD SINS.
Hebrews 9:15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free FROM THE SINS COMMITTED UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT.
Are you included in those that Christ died for? Did He promise you the promised eternal inheritance? The answer is yes, UNDER THE NEW COVENANT.
Those in Christ claim "the blood of Christ", now literal Jews.
All PAST sins forgiven at the moment of GRACE. Anyone who claims Christ is under the NEW COVENANT. And those under the NEW COVENANT have the Lord's laws put into, and written on their minds and hearts, and they will obey. If they don't, they will not receive the promised eternal inheritance. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO is read Hebrews 10:
16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
A Call to Persevere (overcome)
(Jude 1:17-23)
19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21And having an high priest over the house of God; 22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) 24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, AND HATH DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; 33Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. 34For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. 35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
John 6:29
So, you fear being ridiculed/accused by your fellow slippery sidestepping OSAS/OJAJ friends, as a cultist, rather than to stand up BOLDLY for Christ and His NEW COVENANT? Hiding in fear, over a doctrine this important? You would rather continue in Lawlessness? (just asking, not accusing)
You know the verse in Revelation 21 that covers this?
I think this describes the situation well:
δειλοῖς does not exist independently in the verse, but is clearly tied to ἀπίστοις, or unbelieving, as the grammatical cases of each word indicate. Being fearful or cowardly and being unbelieving here, are a package deal. They go together. They are in this context synonyms of each other connected by the copulative καὶ to show the union between, and the relationship of, fear and unbelief.
As such, there is of necessity a judgment that must be rendered against anyone who can be so categorized. Such a person’s fear or cowardliness has generated within him or her a degree of unbelief sufficient to damn him or her as being unworthy to enter the Holy City through the first resurrection and so, suffer the second death.
Unbelief is not mere mental dissent to elements of Christian doctrine or practice, but also contains the germ of all that goes with unbelief, such as disobedience and the unrighteousness disobedience causes. And the main germ of unbelief is cowardice, that is, not having the moral fortitude to make a covenant with God through Christ and stay with it faithfully until the end.
That is why cowards and unbelievers are lumped in with the remaining crowds of sinners enumerated in Revelation 21:8. Their cowardice and unbelief leave them open to engaging in other sin acts against the Lord.
Just wanted to make sure you didn’t miss this:
“Unbelief is not mere mental dissent to elements of Christian doctrine or practice, but also contains the germ of all that goes with unbelief, such as disobedience and the unrighteousness disobedience causes. And the main germ of unbelief is cowardice, that is, not having the moral fortitude to make a covenant with God through Christ and stay with it faithfully until the end.”
I’m sure you’ll be fine.
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