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Theologian Wayne Grudem: A respectful response to my friend John Piper about voting for Trump
Christian Post ^ | 10/27/2020 | Wayne Grudem

Posted on 10/27/2020 6:55:37 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

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1 posted on 10/27/2020 6:55:37 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Protestants put these leaders’ positions on a pedestal more than Catholics do the pope’s.

WHo cares what Piper thinks.


2 posted on 10/27/2020 6:57:18 AM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

RE: Protestants put these leaders’ positions on a pedestal more than Catholics do the pope’s.

The fact that Christian authors like Michael Brown and Wayne Grudem would publicly disagree ( respectfully I might add ) with John Piper shows that they are NOT putting their leaders in a pedestal.


3 posted on 10/27/2020 6:58:57 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Biden wants to kill babies. But, Trump is “boastful”. Gosh! How can a good Christian choose between such evils?

Piper is a fool.


4 posted on 10/27/2020 7:00:27 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (If White Privilege is real, why did Elizabeth Warren lie about being an Indian?)
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To: SeekAndFind

Piper has become blinded by mammon in his own life!


5 posted on 10/27/2020 7:00:48 AM PDT by DarthVader (Not by speeches & majority decisions will the great issues th the day be decided but by Blood & Iron)
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To: SeekAndFind

Piper Schmiper. Who GAS? This election is about life and death. Freedom vs Tyranny,.


6 posted on 10/27/2020 7:00:55 AM PDT by albie
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To: DarthVader

As the saying goes, Piper is no earthly good. He is a pathetic fool.


7 posted on 10/27/2020 7:06:39 AM PDT by alstewartfan (One day he just washed up on the shores of his regrets. May his soul rest in peace. Al S.)
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To: SeekAndFind
I would always simply point out that St. John was the most beloved and devoted of all the disciples of Jesus Christ, but he wasn’t the one who Christ selected to be “the Rock” on which He would build His church. It was PETER — a badly flawed, ill-tempered, and cowardly man — who was chosen for this role.

Christ knew better than anyone else that the world needs tough shepherds to fend off the wolves that seek to scatter and devour His sheep.

8 posted on 10/27/2020 7:08:15 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("There's somebody new and he sure ain't no rodeo man.")
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To: SeekAndFind

Do we not believe in redemption? There was a time President Trump was “pro-choice”... he changed his mind dramatically due to a personal experience. He’s now the most pro-life president in modern times. I’m not sure you can look at his past and call it a perfect Christian walk (who survives that measure?!), however, he now describes himself in Christian terms.

So many Christians want to tear him down for who he WAS... can we not see who he IS?


9 posted on 10/27/2020 7:09:05 AM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege
This Catholic would put Bergoglio in the dustbin. He is a false shepherd.

"Dia shábháil ar fad anseo!"

10 posted on 10/27/2020 7:09:11 AM PDT by ConorMacNessa (FMF Corpsman - Lima 3/5 RVN 1969 - St. Michael the Archangel defend us in Battle!)
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To: SeekAndFind

If Piper or anyone else out there is looking for a saint to lead this nation then they’re on a fool’s errand. The choice between Trump and Biden is stark. Only a person with a complete lack of discernment would vote for Biden.


11 posted on 10/27/2020 7:14:37 AM PDT by lakecumberlandvet (Appeasement never works.)
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To: Alberta's Child

Excellent point!!


12 posted on 10/27/2020 7:22:18 AM PDT by milagro (There is no peace in appeasement!)
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To: scripter

an excellent read...


13 posted on 10/27/2020 7:33:00 AM PDT by latina4dubya (when i have money i buy books... if i have anything left i buy 6-inch heels and a bottle of wine...)
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To: SeekAndFind

The great American writer wrote a profound piece, I believe in the 1920s, to distinguish between those who embrace a perfect dichotomy between good and evil, and those who are reasonable.

The former, no matter their beliefs, are fanatics, and their mental universe is both very small and brittle. If and when this brittle shell breaks, the effects can by unfortunate.

He cited a real news story, of a very rigid preacher who strove to be perfectly upright and moral his whole life, but was secretly tormented by his hidden demons and lusts, only holding them back by trying to lead an utterly sinless life.

But one day neither he nor his attractive choir leader, could control themselves and had a moment of passion.

Knowing beyond any doubt that they had unforgivably sinned and were thus damned to Hell eternal, they both lost all of their inhibitions and went on a multi-state crime spree before meeting a bad end at the hands of the police.

Mencken then compared them to a hypothetical ordinary man, a used car salesman and a Shriner, who is the loving husband and provider for a wife and two kids. For his holiday, he goes to a Shriner’s convention, he drinks too much and ends the night in the arms of a prostitute.

But the next day, sporting his punishment of a hangover, he drives home to again be a good husband and father, and feels no remorse going to church the next Sunday.

(In any event, there are countless examples of fanatics, from communists and Nazis, to Jimmy Swaggart, who see the world perfectly divided in two between their imagined good and evil.)


14 posted on 10/27/2020 7:37:13 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("All men and women were created by the, you know, you know, the thing." -- Joe Biden 3/3/20)
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To: SeekAndFind

Piper is an unpleasant and bitter person. And I used to read his writings regularly. Surprised he hasn’t condemned Justice Amy Coney Barrett yet for....being a working mom.


15 posted on 10/27/2020 7:44:06 AM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
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To: SeekAndFind

I still ask the same questions:

1. Would John Piper vote for Moses, who murdered the Egyptian?

2.Would John Piper vote for King David who was a bigamist, adulterer, and murderer?

3.Would John Piper vote for King Solomon who worshiped idols and sort of invented the concept of womanizer?

4. Would John Piper vote for Ezekiel who preached naked?

5. Would John Piper vote for St. Paul who was an accomplice in the murder of Stephen and persecuted the church?

6. Would John Piper vote for St. Peter who denied Christ, and appeared to be sort of a braggart?

Every man I’ve listed above wrote part of the Bible.

God uses flawed, sometimes terribly flawed men.


16 posted on 10/27/2020 7:46:21 AM PDT by Fai Mao (There is no justice until PIAPPS is hanging from a gallows.)
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To: DarthVader; SeekAndFind

I regularly attended John Macarthur’s church here in Los Angeles a few years ago. And even though there was much I was turned off by, his ministry along with his study Bible were instrumental in my growth and understanding of faith and doctrine. (I was in college.)

He would speak at conferences where John Piper would often be the headline guest. Piper and the adulation surrounding him has always rubbed me the wrong way. The anticipation of the crowds awaiting him to preach felt more like a concert than anything.

His teachings can author much confusion for Christian *women* especially. As I said, I’m surprised he has not condemned Amy Coney Barrett for daring to heed God’s call on her life to be a judge.


17 posted on 10/27/2020 7:55:22 AM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
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To: SeekAndFind

“The claim that the horrible sin of pride leads people to other sins, including defending abortion...”

Piper must be an idiot.

Let’s see: only two viable choices, one candidate is opposed to abortion (Trump), and the other candidate exalts abortion (Biden). So, therefore, if you vote for the candidate who opposes abortion, you may in truth be voting for abortion.


18 posted on 10/27/2020 8:09:40 AM PDT by odawg
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To: SeekAndFind

False teachers, in order to be effective, typically package a particle of evil inside a bundle of goodness:

“A ‘boat’load of sugar and a shovel of cyanide.”

It’s Piper’s turn to shovel in some cyanide.


19 posted on 10/27/2020 8:20:33 AM PDT by mywholebodyisaweapon (Thank God for President Trump.)
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To: pgyanke
I wonder how John Piper ignores THIS and many other examples of Trump's PRO-LIFE stance and ACTIONS. THESE WILL DISAPPEAR if John & Company put their nose in the air and allow Biden to win. USA, 31 other countries sign document declaring ‘there is no international right to abortion’
20 posted on 10/27/2020 8:22:39 AM PDT by time4good
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