Posted on 03/09/2020 8:33:53 AM PDT by Antoninus
Today, March 9, is the feast day of Saint Frances of Rome. She was an Italian woman who lived in the late 14th and early 15th centuries. A previous post about this amazing saint may be found here. It was claimed that in 40 years of marriage, Saint Frances never once quarreled with her husband.
St. Frances was invoked as an intercessor by the people of Rome even centuries after her death.
In AD 1656, a ship entered the harbor at Barletta carrying a deadly pathogenvery likely, the Black Plague. The town was immediately infected and the impact was dramatic. By the time the plague abated a year later, about half of the town's 20,000 citizens had been killed. It is speculated that the Kingdom of Naples suffered 1.5 million deaths as a result of the plague. Read more here.
Meanwhile, it appears that the affliction was considerably less in Rome by comparison. The city suffered a mere 9,000 deaths during the same period. This reprieve is celebrated in several works of art from this period, including the one shown above by Nicholas Poussin entitled Sainte Françoise Romaine (1657). This work was commissioned by Cardinal Giulio Rospigliosi, who would later be elected Pope Clement IX. Poussin created the image to celebrate the end of the plague and interpretations of its content vary. It shows either Saint Frances appearing in a vision to a devout 17th century Roman woman begging her intercession (as per the Lourve website), or the Blessed Virgin appearing to St. Frances in response to her own prayers (as per Sheila Barker in Art, Architecture, and the Roman Plague of 1656).
In either interpretation, the artist offers a spiritual solution for those in the midst of a deadly pestilence. In the background, an archangel armed with a sword chases a personification of plague: a monstrous being who can be seen carrying off one of the victims.
With the outbreak of the COVID-19 virus in Italy and the subsequent closure of all churches in Rome for a month, may Saint Frances intercede on behalf of of the Italian people and anyone who is suffering from the virus. May Christ bring swift succor to the infected, relief to those who are enduring anxiety, and comfort to those whose family members have died.
Then, simply post chapter and verse that proves the position you are promoting... simple as that.
Lots of verses Cronos, but not a single one advocates praying to a departed saint, nor is there a record from before 100 AD that an Apostle ever did this...
And even here, no record that anyone on earth prayed to a departed saint...
daniel, I meant to ping you to this.
All of them advocate it, as it is clear that Christ won over death and those who pass away are alive in Christ, are part of Christ’s body, the Church. We pray with them and we also ask them to pray for us.
We pray with them and we also ask them to pray for us.
And yet no Apostle prayed to a departed saint in Scripture - not even once.
Sure they did:
[1] And after six days Jesus taketh unto him Peter and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart: [2] And he was transfigured before them. And his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow. [3] And behold there appeared to them Moses and Elias talking with him. [4] And Peter answering, said to Jesus: Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. Matthew 17
I’m trying to figure out whether I should do a St. Frances Novena or suggest my wife do one?
You need to read the Bible more. Jesus himself teaches us to pray to the saints as he did at the Transfiguration. (Matthew 17:18, Mark 9:28, Luke 9:2836)
You need to read the Bible more. Jesus himself teaches us to pray to the saints as he did at the Transfiguration.
No. Jesus did not pray to departed saints at the transfiguration. Nor did he teach anyone to do so.
You simply made that up.
Perhaps, you should reread that passage.
It isnt, nor did you post chapter and verse.
No. They appeared. They didnt pray to them.
You are adding this to scripture.
Already done above.
Not a single verse showed an Apostle, or Christian, practice or teach prayer to anyone but God Himself.
Of course, your interpretation won’t accept it.
When the actual text doesnt say something, you cant interpret it into the text.
You claim this is true and important, yet it isnt found in Gods Word.
Because its a pagan belief Rome adopted, like so many others.
Your claim that “Rome” imposed this belief on the Church is simply false. The Churches of the Greek east also practiced intercessory prayer as well as the veneration of relics.
This is a thread about Romanism, not the orthodox, who were also falsely led astray before they were forced to break with Rome.
Yes, the pagan practice never appeared or was taught before 100 ad - and is never found in Gods Word.
It was found in Greece, before Rome conquered it. Rome added pagan practices to Christianity... and here you are defending it.
No, dear Antoninus, praying to a pantheon of lower gods, as Rome does with departed saints for every category.
The Orthodox and the Catholic Churches were one prior to AD 1054. Both practiced intercessory prayer to the saints and veneration of relics and both continue to do so. It is only the new guys who invented new and strange doctrines in the 16th century who don't avail themselves of these practices.
Exactly. It predated the split.
It's America. If you like your paganism, you can keep your paganism.
But it isn't Christian - nor Apostolic.
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