Shroud of Turin PING!
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Remember: it is not a matter of Christian faith nor theology. Please keep your posts factual.
?!
Here the author illuminates his ignorance on the topic. No need to read any more.
The Shroud is an interesting piece of cloth but it has no bearing at all on my salvation. If it is a divinely created image, Hallelujah. If it’s some artist’s incredible fabrication, it does not change my faith one iota.
The source he cites claims that a forger confessed to having "painted" the image, but the image was not "painted". The "confession" is also third-hand hearsay.
The scientific evidence for the Shroud:
https://magiscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Science_and_the_Shroud_of_Turin.pdf
Did the “forger” explain how he created it? If so, let’s see a reproduction utilizing the tools of the time.
Mind you, the impressions are so faint that it took photographic imaging before any discerning person was impressed.
The bloodstains on the Shroud of Turin […] appear to have been painted on.
Never heard this part before, would have been nice to include at least a photo of the actual letter:
“The case, Holy Father, stands thus. Some time since in this diocese of Troyes the Dean of a certain collegiate church, to wit, that of Lirey, falsely and deceitfully, being consumed with the passion of avarice, and not from any motive of devotion but only of gain, procured for his church a certain cloth cunningly painted, upon which by a clever sleight of hand was depicted the twofold image of one man, that is to say, the back and front, he falsely declaring and pretending that this was the actual shroud in which our Saviour Jesus Christ was enfolded in the tomb, and upon which the whole likeness of the Saviour had remained thus impressed together with the wounds which He bore.”
“This story was put about not only in the kingdom of France, but, so to speak, throughout the world, so that from all parts people came together to view it. And further to attract the multitude so that money might cunningly be wrung from them, pretended miracles were worked, certain men being hired to represent themselves as healed at the moment of the exhibition of the shroud, which all believed to the shroud of our Lord. The Lord Henry of Poitiers, of pious memory, then Bishop of Troyes, becoming aware of this, and urged by many prudent persons to take action, as indeed was his duty in the exercise of his ordinary jurisdiction, set himself earnestly to work to fathom the truth of this matter.”
“For many theologians and other wise persons declared that this could not be the real shroud of our Lord having the Saviour’s likeness thus imprinted upon it, since the holy Gospel made no mention of any such imprint, while, if it had been true, it was quite unlikely that the holy Evangelists would have omitted to record it, or that the fact should have remained hidden until the present time. Eventually, after diligent inquiry and examination, he discovered the fraud and how the said cloth had been cunningly painted, the truth being attested by the artist who had painted it, to wit, that it was a work of human skill and not miraculously wrought or bestowed.”
“Accordingly, after taking mature counsel with wise theologians and men of the law, seeing that he neither ought nor could allow the matter to pass, he began to institute formal proceedings against the said Dean and his accomplices in order to root out this false persuasion. They, seeing their wickedness discovered, hid away the said cloth so that the Ordinary could not find it, and they kept it hidden afterwards for thirty-four years or thereabouts down to the present year.”
How does this affect the authenticity of the tablecloth and matching dinner napkin set of Turin?
WHY would someone FAKE the Shroud image when NO ONE COULD SEE IT!!!
STUPID ANTI-CHRISTIAN CRAP.
I am Jewish, so I do not believe in the divinity of Jesus (or any other human being)...
...BUT...
...if someone depends upon an artifact for their faith, then their faith is not at all strong. I would LOVE for the Ark of the Covenant to be found - thrilled, beyond anything that I’ve ever felt - but its absence does not shake my faith.
The Shroud of Turin may genuinely be Jesus’ burial cloth, or it may not be. I kind of doubt that it is, but even IF it is and there was a miracle necessary to produce that image, a mere miracle does not shake MY faith - the Jewish Bible (Old Testament to you Christians) is full of miracles by or for the benefit of lots of non-Jews, but the Bible is CLEAR that performing a miracle (which, by definition requires G-d to actually perform) does not mean very much at all in determining Who is G-d and what He wants of us. I believe that whether one is Christian (any variant) or Jewish, G-d wants us to recognize and act in a manner consistent with our faith that HE is the Creator and Master of the Universe...and a big part of that is treating our fellow human beings of any faith (or none) in as decent a manner as we, ourselves, would like to be treated.
I started writing a book centered around the shroud....people had become so agnostic that scientists decide to clone Jesus from the blood on the shroud....and they create the anti-Christ.
With all the fake news going around in this day and age, I reserve decision.
I'm leaving it up to the experts to argue out the chemistry and physics of the Shroud. All I know from the debates are:
There's a barely recognizable image of a crucified man on it. You need to contrast enhance it to see detail. The only way the image can be seen is from a distance; up close it just disappears. In paintings the detail increases the closer you get.
There is no pigment used to form the image (the image formed at the top of this website is just an image with no detail whatsoever and it purports to show how the TS image may have been formed perhaps in a MA huge oven). There's even a website that infers the image was caused by an earthquake:
https://www.livescience.com/43276-ancient-earthquake-shroud-of-turin.html
If the image is supposed to have been produced by some MA artist which then begs the question as to why the nail imprints are in the wrist and not the hand where in all MA paintings/icons from that time forward show the nail prints in the palm of the hand.
There are traces of limestone silica on the bottom of the feet and elbow that only can come from the steps on where this man tread on his way to crucifixion. No where else in the world is this type of silica found. Did the person who created the TS in the MA sprinkle some of it there to help authenticate the TS? Was the pollen which is only found in that part of Jerusalem purposely placed there as well? How does one account for the incredible body detail that was medically unknown at that time?
There are so many websites out there on both ends of the argument each one showing how the image could have been created so it basically comes down to what you're convinced of.
-J-
The sensible explanation is that the cloth tested was not the shroud, but a patch applied later. Failure to acknowledge and address this explanation shows the author’s ignorance, one-sidedness, and opinion-orientation.
It could be a fake but how was it made? Nobody seems to be able to make a copy. And many, many have tried.
Just the comical headline alone tells me the author is a HOAX!
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Nay sayers must explain how the image is created in 3 dimensions. AND a bunch of other things that are peculiar to The Shroud.
What 50 Catholic churches have subdivided parts of the Holy Booger?