Posted on 11/02/2019 8:30:32 AM PDT by Antoninus
The idea of Purgatory as an intermediary state between Heaven and Hell is one of the most misunderstood and occasionally ridiculed aspects of Catholic doctrine. Though it is common for Protestants and even some Catholics to assume that Purgatory has no foundation in Sacred Scripture, that claim is actually false. The need for Purgatory developed from a close reading of Scripture by the Fathers of the Church, and the concept has a provenance stretching back to the earliest days of the Church. Furthermore, it has come to my attention recently that the Orthodox have a similar understanding of the need for purification before entering Heaven, even if their understanding of that purgation is not the same as that of the Catholic Church.
See Part II of this post here.
One of the earliest accounts of a Purgatory-like place comes from an unexpected source, indeed one of the Mothers of the Church, rather than one of the Fathers. Dating from about AD 203, the authentic account of the Passion of Saint Perpetua details a poignant vision which Perpetua experienced immediately prior to her martyrdom. The words of this early Christian martyr, as written in Latin in her prison diary, speak for themselves:
After a few days, while we were all praying, on a sudden, in the middle of our prayer, there came to me a word, and I named Dinocrates. And I was amazed that that name had never come into my mind until then, and I was grieved as I remembered his misfortune. And I felt myself immediately to be worthy, and to be called on to ask on his behalf. And for him I began earnestly to make supplication, and to cry with groaning to the Lord.Without delay, on that very night, this was shown to me in a vision. I saw Dinocrates going out from a gloomy place, where also there were several others, and he was parched and very thirsty, with a filthy countenance and pallid color, and the wound on his face which he had when he died. This Dinocrates had been my brother after the flesh, seven years of age who died miserably with disease—his face being so eaten out with cancer, that his death caused repugnance to all men. For him I had made my prayer, and between him and me there was a large interval, so that neither of us could approach to the other. And moreover, in the same place where Dinocrates was, there was a pool full of water, having its brink higher than was the stature of the boy, and Dinocrates raised himself up as if to drink. And I was grieved that, although that pool held water, still, on account of the height to its brink, he could not drink. And I was aroused, and knew that my brother was in suffering. But I trusted that my prayers would bring help to his suffering; and I prayed for him every day until we passed over into the prison of the camp, for we were to fight in the camp-show. Then was the birthday of Geta Cæsar, and I made my prayer for my brother day and night, groaning and weeping that he might be granted to me.
Then, on the day on which we remained in fetters, this was shown to me. I saw that that place which I had formerly observed to be in gloom was now bright, and Dinocrates, with a clean body well clad, was finding refreshment. And where there had been a wound, I saw a scar, and that pool which I had before seen, I saw now with its margin lowered even to the boy's navel. And one drew water from the pool incessantly, and upon its brink was a goblet filled with water. And Dinocrates drew near and began to drink from it, and the goblet did not fail. And when he was satisfied, he went away from the water to play joyously, after the manner of children, and I awoke. Then I understood that he was translated from the place of punishment.
While mysterious and certainly not covering all of the Catholic Church's criteria for Purgatory, Perpetua's vision seems to confirm the belief that the souls of the dead benefit from the prayers of the living, particularly those about to endure martyrdom for the sake of Christ.
Update: September 4, 2018:
The Passion of Saints Perpetua and Felicitas is related in full in I Am a Christian: Authentic Accounts of Christian Martyrdom and Persecution from the Ancient Sources. This book is a collection of the best ancient sources on the persecution of early Christians and well worth having if you are interested in this topic.
Some additional sources on the origin of Purgatory, including a large excerpt from Pope Saint Gregory the Great who formalized much of what we believe about Purgatory today, will be included in a subsequent post.
No, I am not a member of that group...Had I been around back in 1100 AD however, I likely would have been one of them...
Divine Justice require Just punishment.
I take it that you really have no idea of the course of study at a Catholic seminary. Here is the required Scripture courses at St. John's Seminary in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles:
I await your apology.
No apology.
I surveyed a handful of catholic seminary curriculum, and stand by what I wrote. Each word chosen purposefully to show what I found.
Including what you posted.
After graduation and ordination, some priests go on for further doctoral studies in Scripture.
+1
Wouldn’t that otherwise be called necromancy?
Please list the Catholic seminaries that do not require courses on Scripture for a four year M.Div. degree. This is the basic degree needed for ordination to the priesthood. You may be confused by pre-theology courses (prerequisites for entering the M.Div. program) or stand alone specialty degrees that are offered in addition to the M.Div. degree or independently to the laity. All M.Div. programs require multiple courses on Scripture.
We could honestly debate the quality of any Scripture course for either Catholics or Protestants, but to say that someone can be ordained to the Catholic priesthood without being required to study Scripture is simply false.
It is not that they have no courses - nor did I say so.
It is the lack of courses in Bible and Bible Study compared to the totality of the degree program.
Straw man. No one said that.
Don’t know.
Straw man. No one said that.
Your post #103: You could have gone through a Roman Catholic seminary and not learned Bible Study.
The difference between being taught scripture in class (in some form) and learning to study Scripture are two very different things.
I like it for teaching me about things I’ve long had questions about. And then I like looking for more info to help me understand what I read there. It’s a great hobby!
I grew up in Protestant country, but with more questions than Protestants can answer. Like with Purgatory or Mother Mary or which day is the Sabbath, I’ve found Protestants often are not the best sources for some answers, though totally awesome for most others.
I think many of us get blinded by something like what blinded the Scribes and Pharisees, which made them unable to “see” Jesus when He was right there before them flawlessly answering their questions and doing all that He did.
He just didn’t give them the answers they wanted to hear.
I think for a lot of Protestants, Sola Scriptura, or rather their sola understanding of those Scriptures they’ve chosen for their own personal Scriptura, often blocks the Light.
This has often been true for my ego and me. Perspective and truth are often difficult to separate, since my ego and I often have more invested in my/our perspective. Hmmm ...
I need to get over it and find a church where I can clean my soul up enough to receive Communion. Not getting any younger and my teeth don’t need any more gnashing.
The command, “Be ye Holy” is not humanly possible. Therefore when someone is born again, GOD cleanses the spirit and soul and IMPUTES the righteousness of Christ (The Holy One of Israel) to the new born. In that way is fulfilled the command “Be ye Holy”.
If you're a Christian your soul has become clean...It's your flesh where the filth is...
All the cleaning necessary to restore the personal relationship with God can be done in a closet ... on your knees if you prefer.
Perhaps some of them are...maybe they’re ARRRgyle pirate sock puppets...
We could honestly debate the quality of any Scripture course for either Catholics or Protestants, but to say that someone can be ordained to the Catholic priesthood without being required to study Scripture is simply false.
But there was one gift they all received that was essential.
And that is the new covenant. God destroyed, the old temple, sacrificial system and priestly system. Man rebuilt it.
Jer_31:31 “The day is coming,” says the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.
Jer_31:33 “But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,” says the LORD. “I will put My instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be My people.
The new covenant is of the Spirit, God’s personal, direct relationship with us. We must be born again, that is a requirement.
Many here will object to these words, but what does God say on the matter? Folks, get you Bibles out
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