Posted on 09/04/2019 2:04:22 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
The discussion of this topic usually begins with this question, “Are You saying that we can lose our Salvation””, or “Do you wonder from moment to moment whether or not you are still saved? or some other variation of this thought.
I am happy to answer an emphatic “No” .
No I do not think I can lose my salvation, and No I do not wonder from day to day whether or not I am still saved.
My first spiritual crisis after being born again, was about the security of my salvation. I have an incredibly tender conscience, in fact I think I have what theologians used to call an “over scrupulous conscience”.
I constantly battled with the issue of security, or whether or not I had truly been saved. I feared Hell and judgment, and compared myself unfavorably to the godly saints at my first church experience, a little Assembly of God in Ames, Iowa.
I knew well the pollution of my own heart, and the dark battles I constantly fought with the sin in my members, and constantly answered every “altar call” I could to shake the guilt, begging God to save and forgive me.
I gravitated towards every Bible verse which was a warning, or a threatening against apostates, sure that the LORD had led me to see them, so that I could know I was damned. I was a real mess.
Eventually it was revealed to me, by the Holy Ghost, and by wise brothers in Christ, to plead the very promises of God, out loud if I had to. I took to writing precious promises such as Romans 5:1, Romans 8:1-4, 2 Corinthians 5:21, and of course 1 John 1:9 , and claiming them as my own whenever these mental and spiritual storms raged.
I can relate to the stories about Jesus calming the storm at sea, for I have experienced this in my heart time and again, on this issue of Salvation and assurance. The Word of God calmed my soul and gave me faith to go on in faith.
My faith had to be rooted in something surer than a date on the calendar, or an experience at an altar. I had to dig deep and allow myself to be rooted in these “great and precious promises” of God , purchased and backed by the blood of Jesus.
In answer to your question , no I do not think I can lose my salvation, Salvation is a spiritual reality, a transaction between the Saviour and we sinners, it is unbreakable, and no one can take me out of his hand. I can lose my car keys but never my salvation.
In fact Salvation is likened to a marriage.
Marriage, as ordained by God, points to Salvation. The first couple points to the final couple, for the Bible is bookended by two marriages. The man who had a scar in his side, in the garden of Eden was presented with the bride, taken out of his side. He could see through the ages, that his wedding pointed to another man with a hole in his side, being presented with the ultimate Bride, at the marriage supper of the Lamb, the ground of all everlasting joy and happiness.
When a married couple has a fight, they do not “lose their marriage”. Their marriage is surer than that, it is a spiritual reality which cannot be broken.
Thus I think the question “Can we lose our salvation?” is definitely not the right question.
The real question is , Do you believe that we can apostasize ? Or in the marriage analogy, “Is Divorce ever a possibility?”. God hates Divorce, but knows it is a realty, He knows people turn away from each other all the time, even though they once made solemn vows.
God knows also that people who cannot be jerked out of his hand, turn their backs on God, as an act of defiant will, all the time. No one can remove them, but they can remove themselves. This is why there are so many warnings against apostasy in the New Testament, warnings which have teeth, real and everlasting sanctions.
The New Testament has quite a few of them, warning Christians to remain in faith, hold fast the good confession, and abide in Christ. It takes quite a bit of gymnastics to re arrange warnings so clear as this one in Hebrews, (given to confessing Christians),
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. ( Hebrews 6:4-8)
I don’t believe I can ‘lose’ my salvation, but I do believe in the possibility of apostasy, otherwise why would God warn of it? Only Christians can be said to have ‘been enlightened’, and to have tasted the heavenly gift, partaking of the Holy Ghost. It is apostasy that is being warned against here, not ‘losing’ salvation.
> “I am happy to answer an emphatic “No” .”
Whew! Thank you Pastor. You’re the only reason I opened the thread because this old juvenile delinquent sometimes likes to go about the day looking for escapes from the reality of life.
The only thing that keeps us going is faith, faith that the things worth living and fighting for will be found abundantly in Heaven.
So apostates are still saved?
“and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.“
.....
When you burn a field, the weeds burn. The field remains.
“ any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.”
Nonetheless, I lost my fear of losing salvation when I began to contemplate that God is outside the realm of time and that, on the Cross, He paid the price for ALL my sins, even the ones in the future because His act was once for all - past, present and future because He is able to know all of it at once.
So, does that mean everyone who truly confesses Christ has a get-out-of-jail-free card to sin? Yes and no. Yes, God is faithful to forgive as we confess our sins and it does not affect our salvation status but the real-world consequences of sin are still present. If a Christian were to rob a bank, for example, it will not affect the robber's salvation but He may see to it that the robber is caught and suffers harsh punishment for his sin in order to bring about repentance.
Thank you for this thread.
You can lose your salvation through the continued and obstinate sin of denying the Holy Spirit Mark 3:28-29. Maintaining that God’s power comes from satan.
I don’t believe I can ‘lose’ my salvation, but I do believe in the possibility of apostasy, otherwise why would God warn of it? Only Christians can be said to have ‘been enlightened’, and to have tasted the heavenly gift, partaking of the Holy Ghost. It is apostasy that is being warned against here, not ‘losing’ salvation.
Pastor Bill, up to a point your words are comforting, but the ones above are not. I memorized the Book of Hebrews, word for word, and it took me nine years to do it. In that context, I have studied the passage which you quoted, and have not come to the same conclusions as yours. To wit, I disagree with you, and I do so very strongly, based on a better perception of the doctrine.
I know that this passage lies at the core of Arminianism, of the kind found in Wesleyanism, and in the charismatic groups such as the Assemblies of God. Though I am the son of a faithful Methodist minister, and was raised in that culture, I reject the underpinnings of it, and what you just said actually argues against your insistence that you cannot "lose" your salvation.
My current commitments prevent me from answering this more fully with references, but I say that the one truly saved by Jesus Christ through reliance on His faithhfulness, cannot and will not go the way of, say, Charles Templeton, or the New Testament characters described by Paul in Philippians 3:17-19.
It is my hope that someone will take up the issue right now, when I cannot, and begin to convince you otherwise.
With humble regard,
imardmd1
Pinging Salvation as the best possible source to answer your question.
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I speak of Unconditional Security, also known popularly as “Once saved, always saved”. We will look at some of these issues in the days ahead…
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2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.…
1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived...
Do you not believe that if Christ would remove an entire church, he would not also remove the wicked even though they proclaim their faithfulness?
Revelation 2:1 To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:
Repent and perform the deeds you did at first. But if you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
Excerpts above from https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/53885-will-god-really-say-depart-from-me-i-don-t-know-you.
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Read, with open eyes, Matthew 7:22-23, where Jesus said that many people will say that they know Him, but His response will be: "I never knew you. Depart from Me, you who practice evil." How can Jesus say, "I never knew you"?
The verses preceding Matthew 7:23 add extra insight: "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore, by their fruit you will know them. Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven (7:19-21). I asked myself, "Is it possible for a person to verbally acknowledge Christ and not be saved if there is no evident change in their lifestyle?"
Yes, it is very possible. If you sense that your relationship with Jesus is shallow and incomplete, it probably is. I encourage you to revisit your commitment and understand that believing in Jesus Christ isn't the finishing line; it's the starting point.[emphasis mine]
When we genuinely repent and embrace God's gracious gift of forgiveness via the cross, there is a complete change in the way we live our lives, or, at least, a strong desire to do so. If there isn't a significant change or a desire to serve Him, our relationship may be superficial, and that is a scary place to be. This is why I often say, "Don't live your life with a question mark here."
No matter what you've done, you have the opportunity to believe in Jesus and be forgiven of sin: Acknowledge that you are a sinner in need of a Savior (Rom. 3:23). Acknowledge that Jesus died for your sins (John 3:16). Repent and turn from your sins (Acts 3:19). Live your life for Him (Heb. 12:1-2).
Amen!
To presume one can then walk out of God's reach is foolishness. Can one fall deep into sin AFTER being born from above? Yes, and yet they are not out of God's grasp, for HE SAID raise up a child in the way that they should go and when they are older they will not depart from it. When born again you have the Righteousness of Jesus imputed to you, you are in His family, and there is no better parent in the created Universe.
Our God is gentle, but will use tough love when required to guide one back into the family behavior. we are not our own. We are bought with a price. Once bought, Who is the Owner? He is able ...
Finding passages that promise security is not the theological problem; dismissing all the passages that warn against sin, and featuring those surprised to find they are damned is the problem you have to address.
No they are not, but they didn’t “lose their salvation” they repudiated it!
I agree, but answer Pasro Bill Randles wth this. He’s the one that I believe is in error.
Stay tuned, i am doing a series
Thanks for you comments, I ask you to continue exploring this with me, I am doing this in serial form
apostates are not ever saved- they are people who ‘get close to salvation’ (Having tasted of the salvation experience’ (or rather having lived it but never accepting it) but never having given their lives over to Christ- ) Then they turn against Christ and blaspheme the Holy spirit- there is no longer any chance they will ever get saved- they become apostates-
A True born again Christian can not become an apostate
And the difference is....?
I agree to a point. I was only telling my story, that really happened to me and my discipleship was to take those promises and claim them as my own. I am doing a series, (the long game), hang in there with me an comment as we go , thanks
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