Is eternal security a "license" to sin?

gotquestions.org ^ | unknown | Got Questions Ministries

[SpirituTuo]

Isn’t sinning turning away from God?

[metmom]

The parable of the ten bridesmaids chews up this argument.

No it doesn't because the bridesmaids are at the wedding feast and WE born again believers are the BRIDE.

We're not the guests at our own wedding.

[American in Israel]

Well half of them are thrown out as workers of iniquity. Seems humility is highly prized by the groom.

[af_vet_1981]

The parable of the ten bridesmaids chews up this argument.

Yes, as well as the parable(s) of the servants in Luke and Matthew.

For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

...

Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

As authorized, but not authored, by King James
1. Matthew, Catholic chapter twenty five, Protestant verses fourteen to thirty,
2. Luke, Catholic chapter twelve, Protestant verses thirty seven to forty eight,

[Manly Warrior]

Plus I am quite sure many a horrid sinner (is one sinner a worse sinner than any other sinner in God’s estimation?) has found Christ/been found by Christ (maybe kind of a guy like Saul/Paul?) and while they acted like hell before meeting grace and Jesus on the road to Damascus, but thereafter lived by the grace and the faith of Christ....

So yes, some “horrid sinners” will be present in the hereafter along with the victims ( if they were saved too).

The whole difference is both parties will be gloried and forgiven and forgiving, so no vomiting would appropriate....

And when does being a victim of a crime make the victim an automatic saint? Just wondering.

There are not degrees of being lost in sin....

Disregarding the Blood of Christ is the line in the sand so to speak.

[metmom]

Yes, and no, but how is it different from a child who disobey's his parents?

Did your parents disown you whenever you disobeyed them?

Were you not part of the family any more? Did they kick you out of the house?

Did you have to work or earn your way back into the good graces of your own parents?

There's a big difference between sinning and willfully choosing to reject God.

And Scripture doesn't tell us that we lose our salvation every time we commit a sin nor does it teach that every little sin we commit is a is rejection of God at the cost of our salvation.

On the contrary, if you believe that then you have to figure out what to do with the passage in Hebrews that says this.

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

If you think that salvation can be lost by sinning, then it is IMPOSSIBLE to bring that person back to repentance.

There is no on again/off again salvation depending on what kind of day you're having.

Salvation, then, is a one shot deal and if you sin once, by your reasoning and definition, you are lost, and that is that. You CANNOT come back again.

But if you believe that a Christian and gain and lose his salvation on a minute by minute basis, then how to you explain, or rather explain away, the verses I posted in post 12 about the security of the believer in Christ?

So, yes in a sense it is turning away from God but not rejecting Him to the point of forfeiting one's salvation, if that were even possible.

[60Gunner]

NO!

There is no such thing as cheap grace. If you say that you love the Lord Jesus Christ but do not live the life of a blood-bought sinner who has been saved, is being saved, and will be saved, then you are a liar.

[boatbums]

Amen! We would ALL be condemned if our salvation depended on how good we were.

Along the lines of the redeemed by grace through faith having an assurance of their salvation, I was thinking how Scripture talks about those who through their way of life demonstrate they have a genuine faith. John the Baptist talked to those religionists who bragged about their "pedigree" and how they were superior to the everyday man. He castigated them saying:

But when John saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his place of baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit worthy of repentance. And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. (Matt. 3:7-9)

That phrase, "produce fruit worthy of repentance", or produce fruit that proves your repentance, tells us that a genuine faith WILL be shown by the fruit it bears in ones life. It's what Paul was talking about to the Ephesians:

For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) (Eph. 5:8,9)

We know that it is NOT our good works or manner of life we lead that merits our salvation - because it is faith in Christ that brings salvation - but a changed heart cannot help but desire to live in the light. Whereas in our lost state we enjoyed the darkness, we will no longer want it - it feels wrong and brings us shame. It is why we are told to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. Finally, we are encouraged by:

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:1-10)

[nonsporting]

Works are mentioned more than faith in this context. For example, the LORD Jesus Christ spoke to the seven genuine churchs in Revelation, and all who have ears to hear, about what they need to do to get to heaven: mentioning works 11 times and faith twice.

You've misunderstood the function of works. It's not for salvation.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works (Romans 4:4-6)

"...to him that worketh NOT, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his FAITH is counted for righteousness."

Salvation is "without works" because the reward is NOT of debt, but of grace. Salvation is a "gift" not of works, lest any man should boast.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.(Ephesians 2:8-10)

Not that we MUST walk in them, but SHOULD. "By grace though faith" gets one to heaven. "Works" determine the rewards one receives in heaven.

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

Even without rewards (debt reckoned from works) "he himself shall be saved".

[ealgeone]

From what I've read on the subject the meaning of continuous is indicative of wanting nothing to do with Christ at all. You are actively looking for sin and not Christ.

Do we all still sin? Yes.

Do we look for ways to sin? No.

I believe that's the difference.

[avenir]

Amen. This.

[avenir]

“Jesus’s Passion, Death, and Resurrection, redeemed all of mankind for eternity. This redemption/salvation, is a permanent, unmerited, un-earnable, and eternal gift.”

You were running well...

“However, as humans, we often reject that gift, but through God’s mercy, are able to accept the gift again.”

...then somebody cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth, and put you back in the driver’s seat.

I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

[af_vet_1981]

While some passages about servants who do not obey the LORD argue for a purifying fire like purgatory, it is difficult to argue that weeping and gnashing of teeth, as well as being cast into outer darkness are (always or ever) a form of purgatory, and these words are for servants who do not watch.

I think Calvinism (named after a French lawyer) argues some scriptures do not apply to its doctrines. Removing scripture is a path for any religious movement to recreate/reconstruct/reform the faith once delivered to the saints into a faith of another kind.

[kosciusko51]

I think Calvinism (named after a French lawyer) argues some scriptures do not apply to its doctrines.

Calvin was a theologian and a pastor, as well as a lawyer. Your comment is equvalent to saying Paul was a Jewish tentmaker. True, but incomplete. I do not know why you wished to make this point about Calvin, but it appears that it was to discredit him. Please let me know if I am wrong.

[af_vet_1981]

Calvin was a theologian and a pastor, as well as a lawyer.

Calvin was a lawyer first, not an apostle, and not a prophet. The Apostle Paul was a genuine apostle, chosen by the Messiah and confirmed by the one holy catholic apostolic church. One could plausibly argue Saul was a Jewish Pharisee first. I have not read the argument he studied tent making at the feet of Gamaliel. One cannot argue, as a Christian, that the Apostle Paul was not a bona fide apostle, spiritual father, and teacher of the Gentiles according to God. One can, as a Christian, argue that Calvin was none of these, which I do.

I see him as a French lawyer who created his own religious system of theology, which we know as Calvinism, strongly affected by his legal training.

[kosciusko51]

John Calvin was not without theological training.

John Calvin was born as Jehan Cauvin on 10 July 1509, at Noyon, a town in Picardy, a province of the Kingdom of France. He was the first of four sons who survived infancy. His mother, Jeanne le Franc, was the daughter of an innkeeper from Cambrai. She died of an unknown cause in Calvin's childhood, after having borne four more children. Calvin's father, Gérard Cauvin, had a prosperous career as the cathedral notary and registrar to the ecclesiastical court; he died in 1531, after suffering for two years with testicular cancer. Gérard intended his three sons — Charles, Jean, and Antoine — for the priesthood.

Young Calvin was particularly precocious. However, by age 12, he was employed by the bishop as a clerk and received the tonsure, cutting his hair to symbolise his dedication to the Church. He also won the patronage of an influential family, the Montmors. Through their assistance, Calvin was able to attend the Collège de la Marche, Paris, where he learned Latin from one of its greatest teachers, Mathurin Cordier. Once he completed the course, he entered the Collège de Montaigu as a philosophy student.

In 1525 or 1526, Gérard withdrew his son from the Collège de Montaigu and enrolled him in the University of Orléans to study law. According to contemporary biographers Theodore Beza and Nicolas Colladon, Gérard believed that Calvin would earn more money as a lawyer than as a priest. After a few years of quiet study, Calvin entered the University of Bourges in 1529. He was intrigued by Andreas Alciati, a humanist lawyer. Humanism was a European intellectual movement which stressed classical studies. During his 18-month stay in Bourges, Calvin learned Koine Greek, a necessity for studying the New Testament.

Also, Calvin's theology can be traced to the Bible, part of which is expressed in The Canons of the Council of Orange (529), so to claim that he made his own religious system is in error.

[af_vet_1981]

Calvin was a theologian and a pastor, as well as a lawyer.

Calvin was a lawyer first, not an apostle, and not a prophet. The Apostle Paul was a genuine apostle, chosen by the Messiah and confirmed by the one holy catholic apostolic church. One could plausibly argue Saul was a Jewish Pharisee first. I have not read the argument he studied tent making at the feet of Gamaliel. One cannot argue, as a Christian, that the Apostle Paul was not a bona fide apostle, spiritual father, and teacher of the Gentiles according to God. One can, as a Christian, argue that Calvin was none of these, which I do, thus discrediting Calvin as a theologian and pastor.

I see him as a French lawyer who created his own religious system of theology, which we know as Calvinism, strongly affected by his legal training.

[kosciusko51]

One can, as a Christian, argue that Calvin was none of these, which I do, thus discrediting Calvin as a theologian and pastor.

Then you deny the truth, as he was a theologian and a pastor, had more than sufficient training for the role, and has been recognized as such for centuries.

You can have the last word, as I will not continue debate you about obvious facts that you deny.

[af_vet_1981]

Then you deny the truth, as he was a theologian and a pastor, had more than sufficient training for the role, and has been recognized as such for centuries.

You can have the last word, as I will not continue debate you about obvious facts that you deny.

At least I see no literal claim John Calvin was a bona fide apostle or prophet, as Mormonism claims for Joseph Smith and others. I have not explored where the title of theologian ranks in the Calvinist interpretation of scripture and if Calvinism does, in practice, consider Calvin an apostle or prophet.

There is no "the truth" that one must recognize Joseph Smith or John Calvin as bona fide scriptural theologians and pastors, though their disciples contend otherwise, and historically they both led their religious communities. Of course, John Calvin did not err as broadly as Joseph Smith, nor Calvinism as widely as Mormonism. As much as Calvinism adheres to the one holy catholic apostolic church, there is that much light in it and it is considered Christian (which Mormonism is not).

[SpirituTuo]

I receive, and continue to receive God’s graces through His Providence. I have been given the gift of Faith by the Holy Spirit.

Nothing I do can merit salvation, Jesus did it, once and for all.

However, I can reject the gift of salvation by refusing to obey God’s laws, and by refusing His commands. On the other hand, when I remember His love, mercy, and greatness, I feel true sorrow, and seek to conform my life to His will.

Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, what God has ready for those who love Him. Loving Him is more than obeying the Commandments, it is about serving others and evangelizing.

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling. I can’t get to Heaven just by saying I believe in Jesus, as the demons acknowledge the divinity of Jesus. On the other hand, I can’t just tick off a bunch of actions and wait around to die. No, I have to believe and acknowledge Jesus as my Lord, by my own submission. I also have to love my neighbor as my self, as well providing for those in physical and spiritual need. We perform these actions out of love for God, imitating His example.