Posted on 07/13/2016 12:29:26 PM PDT by ebb tide
The real-life experiences of a Catholic mother with a “gay” daughter:
When my oldest daughter was a teenager she had her first same sex relationship.
As a Catholic mother, finding out was very upsetting. Several years afterwards seeing an ad in the Assumption Blessed Virgin parish bulletin for a “Catholic ministry” “for parents of gay and lesbians” I had hope that I had found supportive safe place of likeminded Catholic parents.
The meeting was held in the parish meeting rooms of Holy Family parish in South Pasadena, led by a woman psychologist, Dr Elizabeth Taylor; there was no priest present. I was one of the only new parents that night. Quickly away I realized the way the other parents all agreed that the Catholic Church was “wrong” in their opinion. They openly outright condemned the Church as responsible for making their loved ones “feel bad,” “unwelcome” and called for their children’s relationships with their partners to be recognized as marriage - just like sacramental opposite sex marriages and for those in those relationships to be considered full Catholics able to receive all the sacraments. The message was loud and clear – If I really loved my daughter then I had to join with them in accepting and promoting homosexuality as “how” my child was made. And in advocating for lgbt issues and fighting against the discriminatory ideas the Catholic Church used to teach.
Missing from the meeting was any suggestion that our sons or daughters should not be having sexual relations outside of marriage. Or that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and can never be encouraged/supported.
The facilitator passed out articles for me to take home; both were very contrary to Catholic teaching on homosexuality.
I was so upset I couldn’t even think of what to say. After the meeting I sat in my car and full of anxiety began to cry. In Los Angeles, the Catholic Ministry with Lesbian and Gay Persons (the official Archdiocesan outreach to the LGBT community) annually sponsors a special “Pride” Mass to coincide with the LA Pride festivities; they openly support such secular initiatives as the legal recognition of same-sex marriage, healthcare benefits for same-sex couples, and the presence of the Gay-Straight Alliance in Catholic schools; on the theological front, they have advocated for the removal of the term “intrinsically disordered” from the Church lexicon, the inclusion of “…positive language regarding LGBT Catholics, especially for same sex couples in long term relationships,” and celebrated an “indelible moment” at the 2016 LA Religious Education Congress when “…at the closing liturgy on Sunday…a gay couple and their son helped present gifts at the altar to Archbishop Jose Gomez;” they stated that this was a sign that: “Progress for LGBT Catholics is slow and happens in incremental pieces, and often includes setbacks.”
Another gay-affirmative ministry in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles is headquartered at the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary Catholic Parish in Pasadena; the name of the “Gay & Lesbian Outreach” is “Always Our Children;” which is taken from the title of a controversial 1997 pastoral message from the USCCB. Besides a “Link” to the Archdiocesan “Gay” Ministry, the only other link listed on the group’s parish website page is to “Fortunate Families.”
Fortunate Families is a pro-gay “Catholic” apostolate for the parents of homosexual children; according to their Mission Statement, Fortunate Families: “serves as a resource and networking ministry with Catholic parents of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender children.” Their website and Newsletter is primarily a collection of “stories” written by parents, usually expressing their great dissatisfaction with the Catholic Church’s teachings on homosexuality.
Fortunate Families is a strong advocate for the legalization of same-sex marriage:
“Fortunate Families celebrates with our LGBT children the opportunity to share in the same rights as their straight siblings. The Supreme Court decision brings legal stability to our children’s lives and security to our grandchildren. We applaud this decision and continue our work in the Catholic tradition seeking social justice for all our children, and we look forward to the next hurdle, the passage of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act,” said Deb Word, President of Fortunate Families.
In the February 2016 issue of the Fortunate Families Newsletter “Voices for Justice,” the parents of a “gay” man wrote about attending their son’s wedding: “Now I know that this was not just another wedding. Not just because everyone there truly wanted to be there fully embracing them. Not just because Douglas and Steve married. This wedding was different because I witnessed not just another wedding, but the sacrament of marriage.”
In the May 2015 issue of the same Newsletter the co-founders of Fortunate Families, Casey and Mary Ellen Lopata, published a “Letter” they wrote to Pope Francis, in which they detail their support for same-sex marriage and their experiences related to an ongoing 20-year friendship with a “married” “gay” male couple; the Lopatas are the godparents for the couple’s two adopted children. They describe the two men and their children as “a model Catholic family.” According to the “Letter,” the “married” “gay” couple is very active in their Catholic parish:
“They are very active in parish life: one or the other (or both) has served as president of the parish council, chair of the liturgy committee and on the diocesan liturgical commission, religious education teacher, lector, Eucharistic minister, cantor and choir member.”
The Lopatas continued, with this message to Pope Francis:
“These two gay men have accepted their God-given sexual orientations and are striving to follow God’s will in their lives. Though our two godchildren are not being raised by their biological parents, their gay parents through their complementary (though not in the reproductive sense) and loving relationship have created a family every bit as authentic and holy—and life-giving—as that of any heterosexual relationship we know of including our own.”
In the same “Letter,” the Lopatas erroneously claim that: “Catholic teaching says sexual orientation is a ‘given,’ and a ‘deep-seated dimension of one’s personality’ whether heterosexual or homosexual [Always Our Children, USCCB, 1997];” This is an outright lie; “Always Our Children” was a “pastoral message” from the Bishops of the United States and had no power to interpret, let alone define, the origins of homosexuality for the Universal Church. Bishop Fabian W. Bruskewitz once boldly stated: “It is my view that this document carries no weight or authority for Catholics, whom I would advise to ignore or oppose it.”
The same dissident movement at Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary Catholic Parish is also present at Holy Family Catholic Parish, also in Pasadena, which has its own “gay” Ministry: “The Holy Family LGBT Ministry.”
For example, in 2014, at Holy Family Catholic Parish, Catholic dissident Phyllis Zagano, the author of the book “Women Deacons: Past, Present, Future,” spoke on the topic “Women in Ministry in the Catholic Church” during which she argued for the ordination of women as deacons. On the issue of “gay” marriage, she wrote: “As far as civil rights is concerned, I’m on the gay side…” Zagano also repeatedly debated the “born gay” theory in her blog for the National Catholic Reporter and argued that: “…if down the road science undeniably proves homosexuality is a status rooted in genetics — or at least is gestational biology — the church will be faced with a game changer.”
In 2016, on their Facebook site for the LA Religious Education Congress, Holy Family Parish highlighted certain progressive speakers with Karla Stephens, Member of the Education/Formation Commission, recommending an address to be given by Arthur Fitzmaurice, Resource Director of the Catholic Association for Lesbian and Gay Ministry. He formerly served as Chair for the Los Angeles Archdiocese Catholic Ministry with Lesbian and Gay Persons. The previous year, Fitzmaurice spoke at the Congress and had this to say about the Church’s stance on homosexuality:
“The paragraph on homosexuality, which describes it as ‘intrinsically disordered’ while also demanding respect for gays and lesbians, is placed in a section of the catechism paragraphs condemning ‘pornography, prostitution, and rape.’ To keep this abusive language in the Catechism and other Church writings is, in itself, gravely evil.”
In a 2013 video interview for The IN [Ignatian News] Network, made in cooperation with St. Monica’s Catholic Gay and Lesbian Outreach in Santa Monica, Arthur Fitzmaurice said: “I tried to be directed towards God…How do I be the person that God made me to be; and then it gets converted into a realization that God made me to be this gay person.”
One of the stated Purposes of The Holy Family Parish’s “LGBT Ministry:” “Dr. Taylor, facilitator, attends parish counsel meetings at other parishes to encourage them to begin formulating their own gay and lesbian ministries.”
Reprinted with premission from Joseph Sciambra's website.
In 2015, Archbishop Gomez was selected to represent the United States Catholic Bishops to represent them at the World Meeting of Families and the Synod of Bishops on “The Vocation and Mission of the Family in the Church and in the Contemporary World.”
The infiltration by the pedophile priests was the first salvo which paved the way for this, the destruction of the Church from within. De-moralize and destroy. Jesus said “Not my will, but Thine be done.” The gays want to kick out God and impose their own will.
This is so advanced in sin, it is terrible.
All of the Bibles?
Yep!
Excellent post. Thank you.
The next schism isn’t down the road somewhere. It is already here. The proponents are lined up in a serious face-off, their team shirts emblazoned “Pre-Vatican II” and “Post-Vatican II.”
The “Pre” folks are the all Latin, all the time minority, solemnly preferring Bach during liturgy. The “Post” people comprise the rest of us, dutifully singing St. Louis Jesuits’ songs and even (gasp!) exchanging handshakes at the kiss of peace.
Meanwhile, older church professionals who adjusted to vernacular liturgies and who incorporate mercy into their understandings of justice are retiring daily. They are being replaced, where they are replaced, by people whose theological education is complemented by self-appointed Internet theo-bloggers whose opinions grow from the conviction that anything that happened since 1965 is anathema.
Disgraceful!
The next schism isn’t down the road somewhere. It is already here. The proponents are lined up in a serious face-off, their team shirts emblazoned “Pre-Vatican II” and “Post-Vatican II.”
The “Pre” folks are the all Latin, all the time minority, solemnly preferring Bach during liturgy. The “Post” people comprise the rest of us, dutifully singing St. Louis Jesuits’ songs and even (gasp!) exchanging handshakes at the kiss of peace.
Meanwhile, older church professionals who adjusted to vernacular liturgies and who incorporate mercy into their understandings of justice are retiring daily. They are being replaced, where they are replaced, by people whose theological education is complemented by self-appointed Internet theo-bloggers whose opinions grow from the conviction that anything that happened since 1965 is anathema.
Disgraceful!
Thank you. And may our Blessed Lord watch over you and your loved ones.
“The solution is for Catholics to live Catholicism”
You say to live Catholicism, but with the changes listed below seems to me that no one really knows what “Catholicism” really is. For a church that claims beginnings and traditions from Peter I would have to say that your first pope must have forgot to tell you a few really important things.
1 . Prayers for the dead . …………-—————————……300 A.D.
2. Making the sign of the cross ………………………… …300 A.D.
3. Veneration of angels & dead saints …………-————…….375 A.D.
4. Use of images in worship………………………………… . 375 A.D.
5. The Mass as a daily celebration……………………………… 394 A.D.
6 Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, “Mother of God” applied a Council of Ephesus……………. .-———————————————————— 431 A.D.
7 Extreme Unction (Last Rites)……………………………… ..526 A.D.
8. Doctrine of Purgatory-Gregory 1…………………………… .593 A.D..
9. Prayers to Mary & dead saints ……………………………… .600 A.D.
10. Worship of cross, images & relics ……………………… … 786 A.D.
11 Canonization of dead saints ………………………………… ..995 A.D.
12. Celibacy of priesthood …………………………………… …1079 A.D.
13. The Rosary ……………………………………………… … 1090 A.D.
14. Indulgences ……………………………………………… …..1190 A.D.
15. Transubstantiation-Innocent III …………………………… 1215 A.D.
16. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest …………………… 1215 A.D.
17. Adoration of the wafer (Host)…………………………… .. 1220 A.D.
18. Cup forbidden to the people at communion …………………..1414 A.D.
19. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma……………………………..1439 A.D.
20. The doctrine of the Seven Sacraments confirmed …………….1439 A.D.
21 Tradition declared of equal authority with Bible by Council of Trent…………………………………………————————… 1545 A.D.
22. Apocryphal books added to Bible ………——————……….1546 A.D.
23. Immaculate Conception of Mary……………………………….1854 A.D.
24, Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals, proclaimed by the Vatican Council ……………… 1870 A.D.
25. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) ……………………………-—————————————————……1950 A.D.
26. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church……………………… 1965 A.D.
The short answer is that there is a difference between innovation, and development of doctrine. Development is legitimate, and involves the logical and reasonable application of doctrine to new situations, to answer new questions or settle new disputes. The Bible is chock-full of the "development" of doctrine, from cover to cover.
A reliable guide to Catholic doctrine is theCatechism of the Catholic Church (LINK). It is online and easily searchable.
Many a misunderstanding of Catholic doctrine could be avoided by taking 3 minutes to look up the topic in the Catechism.
But now: where did you get your information?
I do wish to refute a few of the more egregious errors.
You claim that the "apocryphal" books of Scripture were added by the Roman Catholic Church in 1546 (apparently at the Counter-Reformation Council of Trent?).
First, they are books of the Bible and not apocrypha. Second the present Catholic Canon of the Bible was declared by Pope Damasus who was pope from 366 to 384 AD, a tad earlier than 1546.
Second, Pope Damasus's Canon of the Bible was also repeated in identical form in a letter to a bishop in 405 by Pope Innocent I.
The honest and non-denominational answer to the controversy you are trying to raise is that there were TWO canons of the Old Testament among Jews (these were THEIR books, after all) one from the Sanhedrin at Jerusalem and the other from Biblical scholars at Alexandria. Surprisingly, I learned this from a Lutheran pastor and scholar after asking him what his reaction would be if Luther had simply dumped those OT books which had some content that Luther found disagreeable. He had no immediate answer but got back to me the next week with the news that Luther's preferences in theology had little to do with the canon he had chosen.
The Roman Catholic Church, at a time when NO ONE had declared which books were and were not to be included, ruled that all Old Testament books (including those that were later labeled "apocrypha") were to be included and that various questionable or outright ridiculous books (The Gospel of Jesus, The Gospel of Mary, The [original] Gospel of Thomas [not the one discovered in Egypt in the 1960s], etc.) largely promoted by Gnostic heretics were to e rejected. Someone had to take out the trash an Rome did.
There has never been genuine controversy over the New Testament, although Luther was not at all a fan of the Epistle of James. Luther did, as to the Old Testament, insist that the shorter Jewish Canon was to be what he believed in. So the innovation within Christianity was Luther's not Rome's and he, at least, had historical reasons for his position as did Rome have for its position.
Next, the celibacy of priests, required only in the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church in the West is NOT DOCTRINAL. All the other rites in communion with Rome allow married priests. In the Roman rite alone, this is a matter of long-standing discipline but it has NEVER been doctrinal.
Next, the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary was long held by the Faithful but never formalized as doctrine until 1854 after Mary's apparition at Lourdes describing herself as "the immaculate conception." Catholics believe in this dogma that Mary, alone of all women in the human race (her Son being the only male exception), having been created by God to be the perfect (sinless) vessel through whom Jesus would be incarnated and enter into this world was not subject to the consequences of original sin committed by Adam and Eve. She was not subject to death which is a wage of original sin. As a woman, she was not subject to the pangs of childbirth, a wage of the original sin of Eve visited on all of her female descendants other than Mary.
Next, the Assumption of Mary is just that and not an ascension. Jesus Christ ascended to heaven on his own power. Mary had no such power. She was taken body and soul to heaven by angels upon God's command to the angels.
Mary never died. In the Eastern Orthodox Churches (which despite some differences are closer to us than any other Church in ways that count like Apostolic Succession, valid sacraments, transubstantiation, valid Masses, etc.) they speak of the Dormition of Mary (her falling asleep literally and not metaphorically). Does it not surprise you that we know and still have the actual house in which the Apostle John and Mary lived until the end of her days on Earth (my then Protestant wife and her Protestant mother visited this house in the interior of Turkey in the mid-1970s) but no one claims to know ANYTHING about Mary's death or as to where she might have been buried. I would think that she was an important figure to early Christians (Catholics) and her death, if any, and burial would have been important enough to notice and remember. No????
Next, the rosary was given to St. Dominic in 1214 in a Marian vision.
Next, indulgences are essentially Biblical from the Peter passage: What you shall bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven. WHAT YOU SHALL LOOSE ON EARTH SHALL BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN. I give you the keys to the kingdom. If you are talking about SALE of indulgences such would not be efficacious and is, in fact, the very serious sin of simony. Unless Jesus Christ and Simon bar-Jonah who became Peter were among the living on Earth in 1190 AD, indulgences had a much earlier and quite Biblical origin.
I could spend a week researching the rest of your list but the foregoing should suffice. We serious Catholics do generally have a very good idea of what we believe. You may disagree with what I have written as I disagree with you. That's one of the things that makes the USA such a great country.
God bless you and yours!
John XXIII was no star. His short papacy was a disaster although he personally seemed reasonably orthodox in his beliefs. He was also a hero in saving Jews from the Holocaust. Paul VI was no star and did little to impede the horror that was Vatican II. He DID give us Humanae Vitae and thereafter seemed to turn to a very insular life of introspection and regret. Before he died ending twenty years of almost uninterrupted Catholic decline, emptying of the pews, vanishing vocations, the Sacrament of Penance becoming an endangered species, vanishing practical fertility of "Catholic" parents, the rise of heretical trash like Walter Cardinal Kaspar (Bergolio's godfather in ecclesiastical destruction) and many like-minded menaces through the ranks, Paul VI conceded and observed: "The smoke of satan surrounds our altars." God relieved his misery and called him home in 1978 and then gave us three quite Catholic popes in John Paul I, St. John Paul II and Benedict XVI.
I don't ever prefer Bach in Church or out. At the Oratory where I worship through the generosity and pastoral goodness of our diocesan bishops, we tend to prefer Palestrina and Mozart. In secular music (outside of Church) I think of classical music as Buddy Holly, Elvis, Five Satins, Doo Wop generally, Rockabilly, etc.
My team shirt reads Pre-Vatican II as is the case with many old enough to remember the Catholic Church of Pope Pius XII, Alfredo Cardinal Ottaviani, Amleto Cardinal Cicognani (Apostolic Delegate to the US from 1933 to 1958 with a HEAVY say so in the appointment of US bishops), Francis Cardinal Spellman, Samuel Cardinal Stritch, John Cardinal Carberry, James Cardinal McIntyre, Archbishop Fulton Sheen and vastly prefer it to the disaster of Archbishop Jadot, Joseph Cardinal Bernardin, Roger Cardinal McPhony, and so many, many others or the coming disaster of a class of trash headed up by Chicago's new curse: Archbishop Blase Cupich who thinks that homosexual perversion is peachy keen but disciplined pro-lifers in Spokane before being inflicted on Chicago. Though he is 67 or 68, he appears to be in unfortunately good health. OTOH, thanks to Paul VI, he will have to submit his resignation 1t 75. Hopefully an actually CATHOLIC pope (by then) will be eagerly awaiting it and will immediately accept it and declare a jubilee for Chicago while immediately appointing a forty-year old successor to the right of Raymond Cardinal Burke to the vacancy to cleanse what will surely be Cupich's Augean stable of Chicago. .
On Eagles' Wings???? St. Louis Jesuits? Kumbaya? Really? I'll take Gregorian Chant which makes Mozart look like a toddler. You give Bergoglio FAR too much credit if you are accusing him of appointing actual CATHOLICS as bishops.
What is really disgraceful is a couple of generations of intentionally poorly catechized "Catholics" who are so ill-prepared to defend the Faith against worldly influences.
So, let's amend your formula for what you think actual Catholics believe. Most of us readily accept the validity of Novus Ordo Mass and sacraments but they, compared to the traditional renditions of each are low rent, low class, uninspiring and a major (but by no means only) reason for empty pews. Ditto pop environmentalism, globaloney "warming"ism, anti-military, anti-police, open borders, etc.. posing as themes for encyclicals or sermons. We aren't listening and we won't. In these respects it is STILL Mater Si, Magister No and EVER WILL BE.
Therefore, MUCH of what has happened since 1985 is anathema as it should be but John Paul I, St. John Paul II and Benedict gave us 35 years of blessed relief even if they were not perfect. This reflects my actually CATHOLIC upbringing and education from the Jesuits soooooo long ago that the Jebbies were still Catholic.
I see by your reply that you are very well informed regarding matters such as this - and I do agree with much of what you posted.
One example : “What is really disgraceful is a couple of generations of intentionally poorly catechized “Catholics” who are so ill-prepared to defend the Faith against worldly influences.”
On the other hand, your criticisms of John XXIII and Paul VI seemed to me to be unduly harsh. In my estimation, they were both honorable and Holy Pontiffs; who did their best under very difficult circumstances.
Have a blessed day. Dominus vobiscum.
Post #14 ~ Re: tagline ~ Oscar Wilde (although during most of his life he lived as a demented and unrepentant homosexual) eventually believed in; and asked for, Divine Mercy ~ was above all else a brilliant poet.
My favorite quote of his was this, “Women are meant to be loved, not understood.” I’ll bet Mr. Don-o will agree!
May you and yours have a blessed day...
What went forward during the papacies of John XXIII and Paul VI came within a fraction of a centimeter of driving me from the Church during the last year of Paul VI. I came close to becoming a member of the Russian Orthodox Church in America, a quite conservative and anti-communist church founded to distinguish itself from the Russian Orthodox Church in Russia whose leaders were chosen by the soviets.
I told a friend of my intentions and of the fact that I believed doctrinally in traditional Catholicism in ever controversy with the Eastern Orthodox such as papal supremacy, and the need for central governance of the worldwide Church. I neither understood nor cared about the filioque. However God chose to do it, it was above my pay grade to disagree. At least they had reverent and valid Masses.
The friend told me to read the Wanderer for a year, provided me with a subscription, and I did. By the end of that year, Paul VI was gone and St. John Paul II was pope.
I do not doubt that John XXIII was a good and decent man. What he did under Pius XII to save Bulgarian Jews alone would qualify him for sainthood. He was tooooo old when he became pope and his idea of aggiornamento was a disaster. Paul VI lacked wisdom. He was made Archbishop of Milan so as to get him out of the Secretariat of State where he served as an undersecretary or sostituto and, according to Malachi Martin to keep him out of contention for the papacy. Pius XII left them a major league hammer to crush dissent but neither was up to it.
God bless you and yours!
“A reliable guide to Catholic doctrine is the Catechism of the Catholic Church (LINK). It is online and easily searchable.
A reliable guide to a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is the Bible. Any other doctrine whether by Angel or anyone else is from the pits of Hell.
Galatians 1:7-9 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
7 Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.
9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.
Looking at your CCC I find a prime example just how flawed your doctrine truly is. #841 Tells me that you and Muslims worship the same god. What have we learned so far is that you can’t leave Scripture because you end up dancing with the Devil and that will never end well.
“First, they are books of the Bible and not apocrypha. Second the present Catholic Canon of the Bible was declared by Pope Damasus who was pope from 366 to 384 AD, a tad earlier than 1546.”
So let’s go with your dates and say I’m off, but you are still agreeing that major changes happened to your current religion and that it isn’t the original tradition from your so called first pope. You can say all day long that they had the belief, but in some cases it took 1500 years to make it official and you really believe that? Yeah lets just play like church and all of a sudden oh yeah lets make it all official, I call bs.
As to your other ramblings you still couldn’t give Scriptural reference, so it still falls under Galatians 1:8 you have been fooled.
Yes we are all entitled to our beliefs per our God, but there is only one truth and that is Jesus Christ.
“you cannot imagine what we went through under those two popes.”
The Holy Spirit is trying to wake you up and save your soul, but you will make the ultimate choice.
“You may disagree with what I have written as I disagree with you.”
I’m not disagreeing with you, but the Scripture is disagreeing with you. Since the ccc and Holy Scripture disagree with each other you have chosen the ccc (tradition) and thus have chose where your soul will reside for eternity. If you can live with a document (ccc) that had changed many times over the years compared to the Bible that hasn’t changed then good luck because that’s all you have on your side.
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