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To: ebb tide

The next schism isn’t down the road somewhere. It is already here. The proponents are lined up in a serious face-off, their team shirts emblazoned “Pre-Vatican II” and “Post-Vatican II.”

The “Pre” folks are the all Latin, all the time minority, solemnly preferring Bach during liturgy. The “Post” people comprise the rest of us, dutifully singing St. Louis Jesuits’ songs and even (gasp!) exchanging handshakes at the kiss of peace.

Meanwhile, older church professionals who adjusted to vernacular liturgies and who incorporate mercy into their understandings of justice are retiring daily. They are being replaced, where they are replaced, by people whose theological education is complemented by self-appointed Internet theo-bloggers whose opinions grow from the conviction that anything that happened since 1965 is anathema.

Disgraceful!


27 posted on 07/13/2016 8:38:23 PM PDT by heterosupremacist ("Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson)
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To: heterosupremacist
There is no disgrace in regarding the papacy of Bergoglio as a total disgrace. Fortunately at his age, God should be firing him soon. The next conclave is not likely to repeat the blunder of the last one.

John XXIII was no star. His short papacy was a disaster although he personally seemed reasonably orthodox in his beliefs. He was also a hero in saving Jews from the Holocaust. Paul VI was no star and did little to impede the horror that was Vatican II. He DID give us Humanae Vitae and thereafter seemed to turn to a very insular life of introspection and regret. Before he died ending twenty years of almost uninterrupted Catholic decline, emptying of the pews, vanishing vocations, the Sacrament of Penance becoming an endangered species, vanishing practical fertility of "Catholic" parents, the rise of heretical trash like Walter Cardinal Kaspar (Bergolio's godfather in ecclesiastical destruction) and many like-minded menaces through the ranks, Paul VI conceded and observed: "The smoke of satan surrounds our altars." God relieved his misery and called him home in 1978 and then gave us three quite Catholic popes in John Paul I, St. John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

I don't ever prefer Bach in Church or out. At the Oratory where I worship through the generosity and pastoral goodness of our diocesan bishops, we tend to prefer Palestrina and Mozart. In secular music (outside of Church) I think of classical music as Buddy Holly, Elvis, Five Satins, Doo Wop generally, Rockabilly, etc.

My team shirt reads Pre-Vatican II as is the case with many old enough to remember the Catholic Church of Pope Pius XII, Alfredo Cardinal Ottaviani, Amleto Cardinal Cicognani (Apostolic Delegate to the US from 1933 to 1958 with a HEAVY say so in the appointment of US bishops), Francis Cardinal Spellman, Samuel Cardinal Stritch, John Cardinal Carberry, James Cardinal McIntyre, Archbishop Fulton Sheen and vastly prefer it to the disaster of Archbishop Jadot, Joseph Cardinal Bernardin, Roger Cardinal McPhony, and so many, many others or the coming disaster of a class of trash headed up by Chicago's new curse: Archbishop Blase Cupich who thinks that homosexual perversion is peachy keen but disciplined pro-lifers in Spokane before being inflicted on Chicago. Though he is 67 or 68, he appears to be in unfortunately good health. OTOH, thanks to Paul VI, he will have to submit his resignation 1t 75. Hopefully an actually CATHOLIC pope (by then) will be eagerly awaiting it and will immediately accept it and declare a jubilee for Chicago while immediately appointing a forty-year old successor to the right of Raymond Cardinal Burke to the vacancy to cleanse what will surely be Cupich's Augean stable of Chicago. .

On Eagles' Wings???? St. Louis Jesuits? Kumbaya? Really? I'll take Gregorian Chant which makes Mozart look like a toddler. You give Bergoglio FAR too much credit if you are accusing him of appointing actual CATHOLICS as bishops.

What is really disgraceful is a couple of generations of intentionally poorly catechized "Catholics" who are so ill-prepared to defend the Faith against worldly influences.

So, let's amend your formula for what you think actual Catholics believe. Most of us readily accept the validity of Novus Ordo Mass and sacraments but they, compared to the traditional renditions of each are low rent, low class, uninspiring and a major (but by no means only) reason for empty pews. Ditto pop environmentalism, globaloney "warming"ism, anti-military, anti-police, open borders, etc.. posing as themes for encyclicals or sermons. We aren't listening and we won't. In these respects it is STILL Mater Si, Magister No and EVER WILL BE.

Therefore, MUCH of what has happened since 1985 is anathema as it should be but John Paul I, St. John Paul II and Benedict gave us 35 years of blessed relief even if they were not perfect. This reflects my actually CATHOLIC upbringing and education from the Jesuits soooooo long ago that the Jebbies were still Catholic.

33 posted on 07/16/2016 5:25:34 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society: Rack 'em Danno!)
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