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To: piusv

This is true on one level, and not true on another. People killed for faith in Christ, even if that faith didn’t conform to Catholic doctrine, have always been regarded as true Christian martyrs (although not for veneration by the faithful). In fact, even non-Christians who adhered to natural law have been regarded as virtuous pagans and were considered to be retroactively covered by Christ’s atonement. After all, God is eternal, so what happens in God-time is not like what happens in our time.

But in terms of the future, there has got to be a definable and uniform Christian faith, especially as people, confused by everything from the “Reformation” to Vatican II, move further and further away from the roots of faith.

The Catholic Church has undermined itself in its attempt to adapt to Protestants and even to non-Christians, and this has got to stop. We have to keep our Faith and our doctrine, because whether they admit it or not, all the other non-Catholic Christians look to the Church as a standard.

Vatican II destroyed the Protestants as much as it destroyed Catholics. In fact, even non-Christians expect to be told the truth by the Church - but they haven’t heard it for 50 years now.


27 posted on 05/26/2015 1:25:30 PM PDT by livius
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To: livius
This is true on one level, and not true on another. People killed for faith in Christ, even if that faith didn’t conform to Catholic doctrine, have always been regarded as true Christian martyrs

Please cite Catholic teaching (pre-Vatican II) to support this.

31 posted on 05/26/2015 1:30:36 PM PDT by piusv
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To: livius
This council firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Cantate Domino.

40 posted on 05/26/2015 1:36:18 PM PDT by piusv
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To: livius
This is true on one level, and not true on another. People killed for faith in Christ, even if that faith didn’t conform to Catholic doctrine, have always been regarded as true Christian martyrs (although not for veneration by the faithful). In fact, even non-Christians who adhered to natural law have been regarded as virtuous pagans and were considered to be retroactively covered by Christ’s atonement.

Is your last statement part of catholic teaching? It's not Christian for sure.

Substantiate your last statement with the Word. I'm asking for chapter/verse.

135 posted on 05/26/2015 6:08:46 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: livius

sorry, I do not look to the RC as a standard for anything — I disagree with multiple errors if not outright heresy taught by the Romans. I am a Christian, washed and saved by the Blood of Christ. It is possible to be a Christian outside of Rome - some of us even think it is easier to be a Christian outside of Rome. Apparently many Romans do not think any of us outside Rome are saved - you have a big surprise coming.


145 posted on 05/26/2015 6:22:30 PM PDT by Mom MD
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To: livius
(although not for veneration by the faithful).

They don't NEED any damned 'veneration' by the faithful!

234 posted on 05/27/2015 10:55:02 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: livius

>>all the other non-Catholic Christians look to the Church as a standard.<<

No...we look to Christ as our standard, not the catholic church.


295 posted on 05/27/2015 6:43:38 PM PDT by servantboy777
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