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The Crafting of the 4th Century Roman Church, Doctrine, and Papacy
triablogue ^ | February 26, 2013 | John Bugay

Posted on 05/06/2015 3:22:31 PM PDT by RnMomof7

The Crafting of the 4th Century Roman Church, Doctrine, and Papacy

There is no question that there were “bishops” in Rome, likely beginning in the late second or early third centuries. But these were not “bishops” as we would understand them today.

Roger Collins, in his work “Keepers of the Keys of Heaven: A History of the Papacy”, New York, NY: Basic Books, a Member of the Perseus Books Group, ©2009) wrote:

Not everyone is convinced that what has been called a monarchic bishop, with unquestioned authority over all of the Christian clergy in the city, was to be found in Rome even as early as [155-166], and Fabian (236-250) has been proposed as the first bishop of Rome in the full sense. It is probably not necessary to take so extreme a view. The idea that in principle there should be a single bishop at the head of the whole Christian community of the city existed well before his time. On the other hand, even after 250 the authority of the bishop over all of the Christians in the city could not easily be enforced, as it was impossible to impose uniformity in so large a city when the Christians remained legally proscribed and danger of prosecution by the state (pg 14, emphasis added).

In fact, there were disputes – “street fighting among their followers” – for control long after the 250 date. Collins recounts, “because of the house-church system, such rival bishops could co-exist for as long as they had the backing of some of the city’s many Christian groups. But the divisions usually resulted in violent clashes between the partisans of the two claimants, and in all cases the imperial government intervened to end the bloodshed and to send one or both of the rivals into exile, as happened in 235, and would do so again in 306/7 and 308” (Collins 25-26).

After the conversion of Constantine and the legalization of Christianity in Rome, the bishops of Rome found that they had wealth and splendor, and began building monuments to themselves:

They [bishops of Rome] set about [creating a Christian Rome] by building churches, converting the modest tituli (community church centres) into something grander, and creating new and more public foundations, though to begin with nothing that rivaled the great basilicas at the Lateran and St. Peter’s. Over the next hundred years their churches advanced into the city – Pope Mark’s (336) San Marco within a stone’s throw of the Capitol, Pope Liberius’ massive basilica on the Esquiline (now Santa Maria Maggiore), Pope Damasus’ Santa Anastasia at the foot of the Palatine, Pope Julius’ foundation on the site of the present Santa Maria in Trastevere, Santa Pudenziana near the Baths of Diocletian under Pope Anastasius (399-401), Santa Sabina among the patrician villas on the Aventine under Pope Celestine (422-32).

These churches were a mark of the upbeat confidence of post-Constantinian Christianity in Rome. The popes were potentates, and began to behave like it. Damasus perfectly embodied this growing grandeur. An urbane career cleric like his predecessor Liberius, at home in the wealthy salons of the city, he was also a ruthless power-broker, and he did not he did not hesitate to mobilize both the city police and [a hired mob of gravediggers with pickaxes] to back up his rule…(Eamon Duffy, “Saints and Sinners, A History of the Popes, New Haven and London, Yale Nota Bene, Yale University Press ©1997 and 2001, pgs 37-38). (Eamon Duffy, “Saints and Sinners: A History of the Popes”, New Haven and London, Yale Nota Bene, Yale University Press ©1997 and 2001, pgs 37-38).

But the only changes weren’t architectural changes. During the fourth century, these bishops of Rome sought to put their own doctrinal marks on the church.

Since the mid third century there had been a growing assimilation of Christian and secular culture. It is already in evidence long before Constantine with the art of the Christian burial sites round the city, the catacombs. With the imperial adoption of Christianity, this process accelerated. In Damasus’ Rome, wealthy Christians gave each other gifts in which Christian symbols went alongside images of Venus, nereids and sea-monsters, and representations of pagan-style wedding-processions.

This Romanisation of the Church was not all a matter of worldiness, however. The bishops of the imperial capital had to confront the Roman character of their city and their see. They set about finding a religious dimension to that Romanitias which would have profound implications for the nature of the papacy. Pope Damasus in particular took this task to heart. He set himself to interpret Rome’s past in the light not of paganism, but of Christianity. He would Latinise the Church, and Christianise Latin. He appointed as his secretary the greatest Latin scholar of the day, the Dalmatian presbyter Jerome, and commissioned him to turn the crude dog-Latin of the Bible versions [currently] used in the church into something more urbane and polished. Jerome’s work was never completed, but the Vulgate Bible, as it came to be called, rendered the scriptures of ancient Israel and the early Church into an idiom which Romans could recognize as their own. The covenant legislation of the ancient tribes was now cast in the language of the Roman law-courts [emphasis added], and Jerome’s version of the promises to Peter used familiar Roman legal words for binding and loosing -- ligare and solver -- which underlined the legal character of the Pope’s unique claims (Duffy, 38-39).

It should be noted that this “Latinization” was one of the things that the Reformation worked to undo. It was the focus of the motto, “ad fontes” [“To the sources”].

As Alister McGrath has noted in his “Introduction to Christian Theology,” “the Vulgate translation of several major New Testament texts could not be justified.” Nevertheless, he said, “a number of medieval church practices and beliefs were based upon these texts.”

So in addition to some of the forgeries and works of fiction upon which the papacy aggrandized itself, Roman doctrines themselves were founded upon or expanded with translation errors.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholicism; doctrine; history; keystothekingdom; papcy; pope; popefrancis; romancatholicism; thepapacy; thepope
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1 posted on 05/06/2015 3:22:31 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; CynicalBear; daniel1212; Gamecock; HossB86; Iscool; ...

ping


2 posted on 05/06/2015 3:23:13 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

Thanks.


3 posted on 05/06/2015 3:24:21 PM PDT by MamaB
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To: RnMomof7

You should just write down in a few sentences what you really want to say instead of posting these really long treatises :) We Catholics can take it :)


4 posted on 05/06/2015 3:24:57 PM PDT by dp0622
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To: RnMomof7

It’s astounding that intelligent people don’t see the fallacy of the so called line of successors.


5 posted on 05/06/2015 3:27:48 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: dp0622

Taking no position on the article, was that humor to ask her to reduce long treatises to a few sentences? It had to be, every Catholic posting I see is unbelievably long, and reads like a motion in an investment banking securities fraud trial.

You kill me.


6 posted on 05/06/2015 3:39:26 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; Salvation; ...

Ping!


7 posted on 05/06/2015 3:41:21 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: RnMomof7

Papcy?


8 posted on 05/06/2015 3:43:24 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: All

The List of Popes

  1. St. Peter (32-67)
  2. St. Linus (67-76)
  3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
  4. St. Clement I (88-97)
  5. St. Evaristus (97-105)
  6. St. Alexander I (105-115)
  7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
  8. St. Telesphorus (125-136)
  9. St. Hyginus (136-140)
  10. St. Pius I (140-155)
  11. St. Anicetus (155-166)
  12. St. Soter (166-175)
  13. St. Eleutherius (175-189)
  14. St. Victor I (189-199)
  15. St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
  16. St. Callistus I (217-22) Callistus and the following three popes were opposed by St. Hippolytus, antipope (217-236)
  17. St. Urban I (222-30)
  18. St. Pontain (230-35)
  19. St. Anterus (235-36)
  20. St. Fabian (236-50)
  21. St. Cornelius (251-53) Opposed by Novatian, antipope (251)
  22. St. Lucius I (253-54)
  23. St. Stephen I (254-257)
  24. St. Sixtus II (257-258)
  25. St. Dionysius (260-268)
  26. St. Felix I (269-274)
  27. St. Eutychian (275-283)
  28. St. Caius (283-296) Also called Gaius
  29. St. Marcellinus (296-304)
  30. St. Marcellus I (308-309)
  31. St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
  32. St. Miltiades (311-14)
  33. St. Sylvester I (314-35)
  34. St. Marcus (336)
  35. St. Julius I (337-52)
  36. Liberius (352-66) Opposed by Felix II, antipope (355-365)
  37. St. Damasus I (366-84) Opposed by Ursicinus, antipope (366-367)
  38. St. Siricius (384-99)
  39. St. Anastasius I (399-401)
  40. St. Innocent I (401-17)
  41. St. Zosimus (417-18)
  42. St. Boniface I (418-22) Opposed by Eulalius, antipope (418-419)
  43. St. Celestine I (422-32)
  44. St. Sixtus III (432-40)
  45. St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
  46. St. Hilarius (461-68)
  47. St. Simplicius (468-83)
  48. St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
  49. St. Gelasius I (492-96)
  50. Anastasius II (496-98)
  51. St. Symmachus (498-514) Opposed by Laurentius, antipope (498-501)
  52. St. Hormisdas (514-23)
  53. St. John I (523-26)
  54. St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
  55. Boniface II (530-32) Opposed by Dioscorus, antipope (530)
  56. John II (533-35)
  57. St. Agapetus I (535-36) Also called Agapitus I
  58. St. Silverius (536-37)
  59. Vigilius (537-55)
  60. Pelagius I (556-61)
  61. John III (561-74)
  62. Benedict I (575-79)
  63. Pelagius II (579-90)
  64. St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)
  65. Sabinian (604-606)
  66. Boniface III (607)
  67. St. Boniface IV (608-15)
  68. St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)
  69. Boniface V (619-25)
  70. Honorius I (625-38)
  71. Severinus (640)
  72. John IV (640-42)
  73. Theodore I (642-49)
  74. St. Martin I (649-55)
  75. St. Eugene I (655-57)
  76. St. Vitalian (657-72)
  77. Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
  78. Donus (676-78)
  79. St. Agatho (678-81)
  80. St. Leo II (682-83)
  81. St. Benedict II (684-85)
  82. John V (685-86)
  83. Conon (686-87)
  84. St. Sergius I (687-701) Opposed by Theodore and Paschal, antipopes (687)
  85. John VI (701-05)
  86. John VII (705-07)
  87. Sisinnius (708)
  88. Constantine (708-15)
  89. St. Gregory II (715-31)
  90. St. Gregory III (731-41)
  91. St. Zachary (741-52) Stephen II followed Zachary, but because he died before being consecrated, modern lists omit him
  92. Stephen II (III) (752-57)
  93. St. Paul I (757-67)
  94. Stephen III (IV) (767-72) Opposed by Constantine II (767) and Philip (768), antipopes (767)
  95. Adrian I (772-95)
  96. St. Leo III (795-816)
  97. Stephen IV (V) (816-17)
  98. St. Paschal I (817-24)
  99. Eugene II (824-27)
  100. Valentine (827)
  101. Gregory IV (827-44)
  102. Sergius II (844-47) Opposed by John, antipope
  103. St. Leo IV (847-55)
  104. Benedict III (855-58) Opposed by Anastasius, antipope (855)
  105. St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67)
  106. Adrian II (867-72)
  107. John VIII (872-82)
  108. Marinus I (882-84)
  109. St. Adrian III (884-85)
  110. Stephen V (VI) (885-91)
  111. Formosus (891-96)
  112. Boniface VI (896)
  113. Stephen VI (VII) (896-97)
  114. Romanus (897)
  115. Theodore II (897)
  116. John IX (898-900)
  117. Benedict IV (900-03)
  118. Leo V (903) Opposed by Christopher, antipope (903-904)
  119. Sergius III (904-11)
  120. Anastasius III (911-13)
  121. Lando (913-14)
  122. John X (914-28)
  123. Leo VI (928)
  124. Stephen VIII (929-31)
  125. John XI (931-35)
  126. Leo VII (936-39)
  127. Stephen IX (939-42)
  128. Marinus II (942-46)
  129. Agapetus II (946-55)
  130. John XII (955-63)
  131. Leo VIII (963-64)
  132. Benedict V (964)
  133. John XIII (965-72)
  134. Benedict VI (973-74)
  135. Benedict VII (974-83) Benedict and John XIV were opposed by Boniface VII, antipope (974; 984-985)
  136. John XIV (983-84)
  137. John XV (985-96)
  138. Gregory V (996-99) Opposed by John XVI, antipope (997-998)
  139. Sylvester II (999-1003)
  140. John XVII (1003)
  141. John XVIII (1003-09)
  142. Sergius IV (1009-12)
  143. Benedict VIII (1012-24) Opposed by Gregory, antipope (1012)
  144. John XIX (1024-32)
  145. Benedict IX (1032-45) He appears on this list three separate times, because he was twice deposed and restored
  146. Sylvester III (1045) Considered by some to be an antipope
  147. Benedict IX (1045)
  148. Gregory VI (1045-46)
  149. Clement II (1046-47)
  150. Benedict IX (1047-48)
  151. Damasus II (1048)
  152. St. Leo IX (1049-54)
  153. Victor II (1055-57)
  154. Stephen X (1057-58)
  155. Nicholas II (1058-61) Opposed by Benedict X, antipope (1058)
  156. Alexander II (1061-73) Opposed by Honorius II, antipope (1061-1072)
  157. St. Gregory VII (1073-85) Gregory and the following three popes were opposed by Guibert ("Clement III"), antipope (1080-1100)
  158. Blessed Victor III (1086-87)
  159. Blessed Urban II (1088-99)
  160. Paschal II (1099-1118) Opposed by Theodoric (1100), Aleric (1102) and Maginulf ("Sylvester IV", 1105-1111), antipopes (1100)
  161. Gelasius II (1118-19) Opposed by Burdin ("Gregory VIII"), antipope (1118)
  162. Callistus II (1119-24)
  163. Honorius II (1124-30) Opposed by Celestine II, antipope (1124)
  164. Innocent II (1130-43) Opposed by Anacletus II (1130-1138) and Gregory Conti ("Victor IV") (1138), antipopes (1138)
  165. Celestine II (1143-44)
  166. Lucius II (1144-45)
  167. Blessed Eugene III (1145-53)
  168. Anastasius IV (1153-54)
  169. Adrian IV (1154-59)
  170. Alexander III (1159-81) Opposed by Octavius ("Victor IV") (1159-1164), Pascal III (1165-1168), Callistus III (1168-1177) and Innocent III (1178-1180), antipopes
  171. Lucius III (1181-85)
  172. Urban III (1185-87)
  173. Gregory VIII (1187)
  174. Clement III (1187-91)
  175. Celestine III (1191-98)
  176. Innocent III (1198-1216)
  177. Honorius III (1216-27)
  178. Gregory IX (1227-41)
  179. Celestine IV (1241)
  180. Innocent IV (1243-54)
  181. Alexander IV (1254-61)
  182. Urban IV (1261-64)
  183. Clement IV (1265-68)
  184. Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)
  185. Blessed Innocent V (1276)
  186. Adrian V (1276)
  187. John XXI (1276-77)
  188. Nicholas III (1277-80)
  189. Martin IV (1281-85)
  190. Honorius IV (1285-87)
  191. Nicholas IV (1288-92)
  192. St. Celestine V (1294)
  193. Boniface VIII (1294-1303)
  194. Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04)
  195. Clement V (1305-14)
  196. John XXII (1316-34) Opposed by Nicholas V, antipope (1328-1330)
  197. Benedict XII (1334-42)
  198. Clement VI (1342-52)
  199. Innocent VI (1352-62)
  200. Blessed Urban V (1362-70)
  201. Gregory XI (1370-78)
  202. Urban VI (1378-89) Opposed by Robert of Geneva ("Clement VII"), antipope (1378-1394)
  203. Boniface IX (1389-1404) Opposed by Robert of Geneva ("Clement VII") (1378-1394), Pedro de Luna ("Benedict XIII") (1394-1417) and Baldassare Cossa ("John XXIII") (1400-1415), antipopes
  204. Innocent VII (1404-06) Opposed by Pedro de Luna ("Benedict XIII") (1394-1417) and Baldassare Cossa ("John XXIII") (1400-1415), antipopes
  205. Gregory XII (1406-15) Opposed by Pedro de Luna ("Benedict XIII") (1394-1417), Baldassare Cossa ("John XXIII") (1400-1415), and Pietro Philarghi ("Alexander V") (1409-1410), antipopes
  206. Martin V (1417-31)
  207. Eugene IV (1431-47) Opposed by Amadeus of Savoy ("Felix V"), antipope (1439-1449)
  208. Nicholas V (1447-55)
  209. Callistus III (1455-58)
  210. Pius II (1458-64)
  211. Paul II (1464-71)
  212. Sixtus IV (1471-84)
  213. Innocent VIII (1484-92)
  214. Alexander VI (1492-1503)
  215. Pius III (1503)
  216. Julius II (1503-13)
  217. Leo X (1513-21)
  218. Adrian VI (1522-23)
  219. Clement VII (1523-34)
  220. Paul III (1534-49)
  221. Julius III (1550-55)
  222. Marcellus II (1555)
  223. Paul IV (1555-59)
  224. Pius IV (1559-65)
  225. St. Pius V (1566-72)
  226. Gregory XIII (1572-85)
  227. Sixtus V (1585-90)
  228. Urban VII (1590)
  229. Gregory XIV (1590-91)
  230. Innocent IX (1591)
  231. Clement VIII (1592-1605)
  232. Leo XI (1605)
  233. Paul V (1605-21)
  234. Gregory XV (1621-23)
  235. Urban VIII (1623-44)
  236. Innocent X (1644-55)
  237. Alexander VII (1655-67)
  238. Clement IX (1667-69)
  239. Clement X (1670-76)
  240. Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89)
  241. Alexander VIII (1689-91)
  242. Innocent XII (1691-1700)
  243. Clement XI (1700-21)
  244. Innocent XIII (1721-24)
  245. Benedict XIII (1724-30)
  246. Clement XII (1730-40)
  247. Benedict XIV (1740-58)
  248. Clement XIII (1758-69)
  249. Clement XIV (1769-74)
  250. Pius VI (1775-99)
  251. Pius VII (1800-23)
  252. Leo XII (1823-29)
  253. Pius VIII (1829-30)
  254. Gregory XVI (1831-46)
  255. Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)
  256. Leo XIII (1878-1903)
  257. St. Pius X (1903-14)
  258. Benedict XV (1914-22) Biographies of Benedict XV and his successors will be added at a later date
  259. Pius XI (1922-39)
  260. Pius XII (1939-58)
  261. St. John XXIII (1958-63)
  262. Paul VI (1963-78)
  263. John Paul I (1978)
  264. St. John Paul II (1978-2005)
  265. Benedict XVI (2005-2013)
  266. Francis (2013—)

9 posted on 05/06/2015 3:51:33 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: RnMomof7

I think you guys can settle these disagreements once and for all. How about a donate to FreeRepublic campaign for next month. Everyone send in a donation to Free Republic in the name of your faith.
Whichever group sends in the most will be declared the true faith and everyone else will have to admit they are heretics.


10 posted on 05/06/2015 3:54:10 PM PDT by MNDude
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To: MNDude

Lol!


11 posted on 05/06/2015 3:55:12 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: CynicalBear; RnMomof7; Tax-chick; GregB; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; ..
It’s astounding that intelligent people don’t see the fallacy of the so called line of successors.

The seven great letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, written around the year 106 while on his way to Rome to be thrown to the beasts, take for granted the existence of local hierarchical churches, ruled by bishops who are assisted by priests and deacons. Ignatius, a living disciple of John the Apostle, writes that "Jesus Christ...is the will of the Father, just as the bishops, who have been appointed throughout the world, are the will of Jesus Christ. Let us be careful, then, if we would be submissive to God, not to oppose the bishop."

EPISTLES of St. Ignatius of Antioch

12 posted on 05/06/2015 3:59:22 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: NYer; CynicalBear; RnMomof7
...Ignatius, a living disciple of John the Apostle, writes that "Jesus Christ...is the will of the Father, just as the bishops, who have been appointed throughout the world, are the will of Jesus Christ. Let us be careful, then, if we would be submissive to God, not to oppose the bishop."

So, your assertion is that Roman Catholicism can make a claim which cannot be found within Scripture, and your group accepts it with our question (as long as it supports the ridiculous proscriptions therein!)?

Where did Jesus make bishops? Scripture reference, please...

It’s astounding that intelligent people don’t see the fallacy of the so called line of successors.

You give more credit than deserved! Indoctrinated peoples do not question the "authority", and within that cult, they risk excommunication. To me, that would be a good thing that may cause them to actually seek God's Word, with the guidance of His Holy Spirit (as He promised).

There is no Papal succession. There is only a long line of pretenders to God's Throne!

13 posted on 05/06/2015 4:22:40 PM PDT by WVKayaker (Impeachment is the Constitution's answer for a derelict, incompetent president! -Sarah Palin 7/26/14)
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To: DesertRhino; dp0622; Salvation; RnMomof7
instead of posting these really long treatises :)

....

It had to be, every Catholic posting I see is unbelievably long, and reads like a motion in an investment banking securities fraud trial.

Or, like some people pinged here, they post long Roman Catholic propaganda under the guise of liturgy and make repeated replies to their own thread, without ceasing. I guess some people may think it will earn them a shorter time in purgatory and some have admitted that it is done to earn a reward (RCCult indulgences are still around!).

Of course there is no purgatory, and there is nothing to do to earn anything in God's economy! Free, Free, Free... Grace, unmerited Grace!

Smells and bells are remnants of pagan worship. Repetitious prayer was specifically faulted by Jesus. God is a Spirit, and the prayers of the saints (all Christians, not a select few) are God's sweet savor!

14 posted on 05/06/2015 4:31:53 PM PDT by WVKayaker (Impeachment is the Constitution's answer for a derelict, incompetent president! -Sarah Palin 7/26/14)
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To: MNDude
I think you guys can settle these disagreements once and for all. How about a donate to FreeRepublic campaign for next month. Everyone send in a donation to Free Republic in the name of your faith.
Whichever group sends in the most will be declared the true faith and everyone else will have to admit they are heretics.

"A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things."

15 posted on 05/06/2015 4:52:09 PM PDT by Lonely Bull ("When he is being rude or mean it drives people _away_ from his confession and _towards_ yours.")
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To: CynicalBear; RnMomof7
It’s astounding that intelligent people don’t see the fallacy of the so called line of successors.

I think it falls apart right at the beginning. The Apostles were missionaries they weren't Bishops. The Apostles founded churches it was the local members of these churches that determined the elders of their churches. The Apostles did not take up permanent residence in a church. It wasn't until the 2nd century, after the Apostolic Era ended, that a centralized structure began to emerge.

16 posted on 05/06/2015 5:08:25 PM PDT by wmfights (a stranger in a hostile and foreign land that used to be my home)
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To: Salvation

**St. Hilarius (461-68)**

LOL


17 posted on 05/06/2015 6:03:09 PM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: RnMomof7

Half truths and innuendos trying to pass as history. Praying for your mind to be opened and your heart to be softened.


18 posted on 05/06/2015 6:28:52 PM PDT by verga (I might as well be playing chess with pigeons,.)
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To: NYer
The seven great letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, written around the year 106 while on his way to Rome to be thrown to the beasts, take for granted the existence of local hierarchical churches, ruled by bishops who are assisted by priests and deacons. Ignatius, a living disciple of John the Apostle, writes that "Jesus Christ...is the will of the Father, just as the bishops, who have been appointed throughout the world, are the will of Jesus Christ. Let us be careful, then, if we would be submissive to God, not to oppose the bishop."

All scholars reject 8 of Ignatius' alleged writings as forgeries and say the 7 remaining letters are genuine and were written in 110AD.
Some scholars reject them all as forgeries that were written about 250AD
We take the firm view that all 15 Ignatian letters are forgeries. All of the letters that claim to be written by Ignatius are fakes.
Almost nothing is known about the real Ignatius. See Schaff's comments below.

The Fifteen Forged Letters of Ignatius

19 posted on 05/06/2015 6:33:05 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: WVKayaker
Or, like some people pinged here, they post long Roman Catholic propaganda under the guise of liturgy and make repeated replies to their own thread, without ceasing.

God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as that poster. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

20 posted on 05/06/2015 7:35:03 PM PDT by Lonely Bull ("When he is being rude or mean it drives people _away_ from his confession and _towards_ yours.")
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