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To: CynicalBear; RnMomof7; Tax-chick; GregB; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; ..
It’s astounding that intelligent people don’t see the fallacy of the so called line of successors.

The seven great letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, written around the year 106 while on his way to Rome to be thrown to the beasts, take for granted the existence of local hierarchical churches, ruled by bishops who are assisted by priests and deacons. Ignatius, a living disciple of John the Apostle, writes that "Jesus Christ...is the will of the Father, just as the bishops, who have been appointed throughout the world, are the will of Jesus Christ. Let us be careful, then, if we would be submissive to God, not to oppose the bishop."

EPISTLES of St. Ignatius of Antioch

12 posted on 05/06/2015 3:59:22 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: NYer; CynicalBear; RnMomof7
...Ignatius, a living disciple of John the Apostle, writes that "Jesus Christ...is the will of the Father, just as the bishops, who have been appointed throughout the world, are the will of Jesus Christ. Let us be careful, then, if we would be submissive to God, not to oppose the bishop."

So, your assertion is that Roman Catholicism can make a claim which cannot be found within Scripture, and your group accepts it with our question (as long as it supports the ridiculous proscriptions therein!)?

Where did Jesus make bishops? Scripture reference, please...

It’s astounding that intelligent people don’t see the fallacy of the so called line of successors.

You give more credit than deserved! Indoctrinated peoples do not question the "authority", and within that cult, they risk excommunication. To me, that would be a good thing that may cause them to actually seek God's Word, with the guidance of His Holy Spirit (as He promised).

There is no Papal succession. There is only a long line of pretenders to God's Throne!

13 posted on 05/06/2015 4:22:40 PM PDT by WVKayaker (Impeachment is the Constitution's answer for a derelict, incompetent president! -Sarah Palin 7/26/14)
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To: NYer
The seven great letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, written around the year 106 while on his way to Rome to be thrown to the beasts, take for granted the existence of local hierarchical churches, ruled by bishops who are assisted by priests and deacons. Ignatius, a living disciple of John the Apostle, writes that "Jesus Christ...is the will of the Father, just as the bishops, who have been appointed throughout the world, are the will of Jesus Christ. Let us be careful, then, if we would be submissive to God, not to oppose the bishop."

All scholars reject 8 of Ignatius' alleged writings as forgeries and say the 7 remaining letters are genuine and were written in 110AD.
Some scholars reject them all as forgeries that were written about 250AD
We take the firm view that all 15 Ignatian letters are forgeries. All of the letters that claim to be written by Ignatius are fakes.
Almost nothing is known about the real Ignatius. See Schaff's comments below.

The Fifteen Forged Letters of Ignatius

19 posted on 05/06/2015 6:33:05 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: NYer
The first known extra-scriptural reference to apostolic succession is 1 Clement, written during the apostolic age:
44:1 Our Apostles, too, by the instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ, knew that strife would arise concerning the dignity of a bishop;

44:2 and on this account, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed the above-mentioned as bishops and deacons: and then gave a rule of succession, in order that, when they had fallen asleep, other men, who had been approved, might succeed to their ministry.

44:3 Those who were thus appointed by them, or afterwards by other men of good repute, with the consent of the whole Church, who have blamelessly ministered to the flock of Christ with humility, quietly, and without illiberality, and who for a long time have obtained a good report from all, these, we think, have been unjustly deposed from the ministry.

44:4 For it will be no small sin in us if we depose from the office of bishop those who blamelessly and piously have made the offerings.

44:5 Happy are the presbyters who finished their course before, and died in mature age after they had borne fruit; for they do not fear lest any one should remove them from the place appointed for them.

44:6 For we see that ye have removed some men of honest conversation from the ministry, which had been blamelessly and honourably performed by them.

1 Clem 44 (tr. Charles H. Hoole, 1885).
35 posted on 05/07/2015 5:18:45 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: NYer

There is no such office of priest in the New Testament church other than Christ as the High Priest and all believers as priests.


36 posted on 05/07/2015 5:39:50 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: NYer
St. Ignatius of Antioch had a much different view of bishops than the current Roman view.

"Wherefore it is fitting that ye should run together in accordance with the will of your bishop."

His Epistle to the Ephesians tells the Ephesians to follow their local bishop. The bishop is the center of the local church.

"For your justly renowned presbytery, worthy of God, is fitted as exactly to the bishop as the strings are to the harp."

The elders and ministers (presbytery) of the local church are to work with the local bishop.

"For even Jesus Christ, our inseparable life, is the [manifested] will of the Father; as also bishops, settled everywhere to the utmost bounds [of the earth], are so by the will of Jesus Christ."

All bishops are equal. Everyone submits to their local bishop. There is no hierarchy of bishops.

Additionally, St. Ignatius never mentions anything about a line of successors. He says to submit to your local bishop. Words that I take to heart and follow.

43 posted on 05/07/2015 7:51:12 AM PDT by Tao Yin
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