Posted on 08/05/2013 6:15:40 PM PDT by wmfights
We look back in time, and say the universe is 15 billion years old. But as every scientist knows, when we say the universe is 15 billion years old, there's another half of the sentence that we rarely bother to say. The other half of the sentence is: The universe is 15 billion years old as seen from the time-space coordinates of the earth.
The key is that the Torah looks forward in time, from very different time-space coordinates, when the universe was small. Since then, the universe has expanded out. Space stretches, and that stretching of space totally changes the perception of time.
(Excerpt) Read more at geraldschroeder.com ...
Why do you say you had no choice to believe in Him?
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you,
I realize here that Jesus is talking to his Apostles but it may just as well apply to every one where salvation is concerned.
We don,t know the mind of God.
Personally i believe we should spend more time doing the simple little things Jesus told us to do in our private lives,myself included( the parable of the good Samaritan comes to mind ) .
The sheep and the goats is an other example.
John6
10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
We are to show our love by doing what Jesus told us to do, by giving of our selves to help people who need help.
John6
40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
But no, some one comes up with something that no one actually knows anything about but only assumes and like others i jump to the fore, and usually regret it.
Hm. We know the age of humans because we know what a newborn human looks like.
How can we know the age of the universe if we’ve never seen a newborn universe?
So we should not be delving into deep theological issues? Or other such stuff?
And that is where the question of choice leads us.
I confess I am just now starting to get into some deeper theological reading after 20 years in my walk with the Lord, but when push comes to shove I am content to take Him at His word as laid out in Scripture.
He can reveal the answer to your questions like choice/freewill without me.
I also find it difficult to debate stuff like this on the Internet because I do not know the people I am writing to and have not observed their lives or their walk. Much easier for me in person when we are face to face.
He can reveal the answer to your questions like choice/freewill without me.
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
“Everything is relative.”
Perhaps that statement is too absolute.
I found your entire post to be interesting. But here is one thing I want to comment upon:
“for the photon, no time elapses at all”
I’d never heard that before. Like relativity and quantum mechanics, it opens up new ways of thinking about things.
Loosely speaking perhaps, it is one of those every day miracles that is always available for inspection, contemplation, or perhaps even experimentation.
Genesis 3: 15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
If you had been Adam, you would have proceeded (immediately?) to eat the apple, compelled by logical necessity, as you understood it.
On the other hand, had I been Adam, I would have understood that I had a choice. My initial choice would have been to refuse the apple. I expect that I would have succumbed to temptation eventually. However making a choice is not the same thing as having not having a choice.
“Dr. Schroeder is a “concordist,” that is, he seeks to make modern scientific theories conflate with the text of Genesis.”
This article, and its replies, have given me two conflicting insights.
One is that it may now be possible to reconcile science with a reading and understanding of the bible. I thank Dr. Schroeder.
The other insight is that both today’s science and any particular understanding of the bible may be erroneous. Trying to reconcile the two may be like trying to shoot at a moving target, when you should be shooting at a different target. I thank the readers/posters for their replies.
Overall, I have to thank Dr. Schroeder again for his valiant attempt. Rather than snidely dismissing Genesis, as many academics do, he has given serious thought to both Genesis and science.
In general, I think religion has been dismissed by many academics for reasons of fashion, conformity, free will, due to outdated Newtonian understandings, and over-inflated Darwinian “certainties.” These people claim to speak with the “authority” of science.
True scientific thinking is a process, not a product. Dr. Schroeder, and many of the posters on this site, are contributing to the process of science. It’s kind of like the difference between thinking and repeating a thought. People think. Parrots repeat. A spoken thought and a repeated thought may sound the same, yet be worlds apart.
Don't believe me regarding democRATs et. al? Just ask one what they had for breakfast yesterday morning, and they won't be able to tell you.
5.56mm
Thanks, that was an interesting link.
Ingrained in my mind is the title of a movie, “All Dogs go to Heaven.” My experience with animals is pretty much limited to cats and dogs. I like them both. I cannot imagine that a cat would choose to die for its master. However it is easy to imagine that a dog would do so.
Farmers and zoo keepers are familiar with more animals. What animal, besides a dog, might conceivably sacrifice itself for a person? Dolphins perhaps?
As to cats and almost all animals, the term “nefesh” clearly applies.
As a youth, I found my dog one morning with its tail between its legs. Then I saw the wrappers that once held individual chocolate candies. Putting two and two together, I yelled at the dog and even spanked him.
He was so relieved. He knew he’d done wrong, paid his dues, and would soon be forgiven. A few licks to the face latter and I felt I had no choice but to hug him.
Guilt, love, self-sacrifice, these are traits that can be found in “man’s best friend.” Although I never saw the movie, I wonder if perhaps all dogs do go to heaven.
Thanks for the link.
I know a theoretical physicist who happens to be an oenophile. She may take issue with certain aspects of this study.
For myself, I am may dedicate my few remaining years to finding Carid’s original research.
My understanding also.
Even I know something about the actions of Caesar and Napoleon. This in no way negates their free will.
Correction in the last sentence. It should have ended with:
“as not having a choice.”
Lovely reply, ChessExpert, but I am going to have to go back and see what it was I wrote you about.
Because I’ve no idea how we got on the subject of animals on this thread.
Gosh, it is hard being senile at 52! lol
At FreeRepublic, I’ve become accustomed to “sarcasm” alerts. Perhaps a “pulling your leg” alert was in order in this case.
I enjoyed the trilogy.
It’s been many years since I read it. I still remember the hero’s unwelcome realization that it fell to him to change the course of events on Venus. God could have done it the easy way and sent an angel, but oh no, our hero had to take action. Not only that, but the matter would not be resolved through sophisticated discussion. Instead crude action was required - very determined crude action.
At post 96 you mentioned:
“the Schroeder article The Two Souls of Humankind”
So I did a search and found:
http://geraldschroeder.com/wordpress/?page_id=102
Thank you so much!!
That was way too long ago, ChessExpert. I can’t remember what I did this morning. lol
That was a really fascinating article though, I have to say. I don’t know if it answers my mother’s question about where babies’ souls come from but fascinating nevertheless.
I got very little of the nefesh and a whole lotta the neshamah since I am always giving away money and stuff I shouldn’t be and with no drive to earn more. Need my nefesh kicked into overdrive. :)
I don’t know about animals being in heaven but surely they would have to be. I have never been close to or fond of animals much. But my sister had a dog that, even though I was not especially close to him, I was very fond of. He died last year and now going to her home is just not the same. I miss him and his familiar presence. He was very reassuring and gentle and I’ve never even felt that from a human. So I am hoping I will see him again and get to be close to him as I never was here.
Here’s a couple of articles I found just now about the subject.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2012/april/do-pets-go-to-heaven.html?start=1
http://carm.org/animals-heaven
It is awesome to me that God chose light as the metaphor for His glory.
Likewise, the illumination God gives us is timeless.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. - John 1:3-4
'-)
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