Posted on 04/06/2013 2:20:59 PM PDT by Morgana
ick Warren’s son has taken his own life. Matthew Warren, 27, had struggled with mental illness before his death.
Evangelist Greg Laurie posted an e-mail the Saddleback Church pastor sent to this staff: “Only those closest knew that he (Matthew) struggled from birth with mental illness, dark holes of depression, and even suicidal thoughts. In spite of America’s best doctors, meds, counselors, and prayers for healing, the torture of mental illness never subsided. Today, after a fun evening together with Kay and me, in a momentary wave of despair at his home, he took his life.” Click here to read a prayer request Rick Warren e-mailed to his staff.
Prayers and condolences are flooding into Warren’s Facebook page. And Laurie also expressed his heartfelt pain over Warren’s loss.
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
What u said....precisely
Let’s hope.
Asking you for chapter and verse to support your claim that Luke was no longer a doctor is me accusing Luke??
Paul says, "Luke the beloved doctor", not anything remotely like, "Luke the beloved ex-doctor."
He doesn't even say merely, "Luke the doctor" mentioning his profession as a means of identifying him, but he says, "Luke the beloved doctor", which I take as expressing his appreciation for Luke as a physician; a medical doctor. He is saying that he loved and highly esteemed Luke as a physician.
Find a better translation if you like. I believe I am taking the words in their ordinary, normal sense, and the forgoing is their plain meaning. If you have a more reasonable explanation for these words of Scripture I would like to see it.
Again, do you have any Scripture to support your claim that Luke was no longer a doctor?
Cordially,
Read my post again. I said “true Christian”. That would mean true to all. You seem to be claiming that if we appropriate all of God’s commands that we will never be oppressed with sickness. Is that your position?
There is a great review of Henry Wright’s book “A More Excellent Way” here: http://bible.org/article/review-more-excellent-way-henry-wright. I’m afraid he is just one more of the “health and wealth” preachers of today taking scripture out of context and adding his own meanings to others.
You didn’t answer the question. Did you see the Louisville basketball game? Where that young man’s leg broke and the bone was sticking 6 inches out of the skin? If that happened to you.... you’d refuse to have a doctor treat it?
Hmm.. am I special? Well, yes and no. John 15:16 “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.”
Special to my Father in Heaven, yes. Special to you? I am guessing- no.
And if this is way for Rick Warren to surrender the rest of his pride- and surrender to God, that is good news for him.
And if that is God’s will, that doesn’t mean I have to stop speaking the truth about the word of God. Compassion for someone does not mean enabling them to lie, steal and deceive.
Do you feel you are called to judge me? I am called to speak the truth, in love for my neighbors, and that feels pretty darn good.
Where is my mercy you ask? How about the mercy for the many people and pastors, who are deceived by this man, Rick Warren? Should those people be shown mercy? AND where did I say that this death made me happy? I sad it was tragic and horrible and sad, and I can not imagine the pain of losing a child (but we are warned in the Word what will happen when take high positions and then deceive people)- and I prayed for Rick Warren to find Jesus. I hope that for everyone.
WHAT in the world do you think is more merciful than Jesus?
Hello PW....
Yes it hurts....I stood with a friend who for years she and her husband took their son to physicians and clinics to find help for his mental illness....he suffered terribly and so did the family.
However there was little relief for very long...she shared some of the conversations she had with her son....heartbreaking to hear how much ‘he didn’t want to be as he was’.
He died a couple years ago at 25 yr.s It was a sweet sorrow for them...they knew he was finally relieved and with the Lord fully the man he so desired to be.
Sorry, I’ve known too many genuinely virtuous people who died horrible deaths because they used prayer instead of common sense. The most insidious and lethal part of it was that they were encouraged to procrastinate instead of deal with their medical problems promptly, turning easy to treat problems into lethal ones.
Make no mistake, prayer does *help* the healing process, but a person who relies entirely on prayer is leaping off a cliff and hoping that the hand of God will catch him. It doesn’t work that way.
However --- let me go all schoolmarm on you (on one little point) --- I see you used the words "middle ages," to allude to a time before scientific, or at least empirical, medicine. That's not quite right. The Middle Ages in Europe saw the spread the healing arts especially in monastic settings, with much emphasis on bodily cleanliness, the use of soap, pure water, moderate diet and herbal remedies, and (on the physical side), and examination of conscience, repentance for sin, and forgiveness of all who have injured one, invoking God's mercy on both friends and enemies (on the spiritual side.)
The monasteries --particularly the Benedictines--- also preserved and translated books from classical antiquity, with many medical texts both on ancient Greek and Islamic medicine translated from Arabic during the 13th century.
It's a personal bug of mine when people use words like "middle ages" or "medieval" to suggest ignorance.
OK, carry on! :o)
It sounds like he had a very painful life.
Good post, ‘brumuy. Very interesting. I jab myself with B12 once a month because of an absorption problem. I’m thanking God for injectable vitamins.
Or Colossians 4:14, where Paul calls Luke the "beloved physician," or a neat passage where Paul himself tries a little doctoring, telling Timothy, "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities." (1 Timothy 5:23)
The anti-medicine advocates would truly be dangerous if Christian believers took them seriously.
Fortunately, few do.
Thank you for that link. Very enlightening, I would say.
“Or Colossians 4:14, where Paul calls Luke the “beloved physician,” or a neat passage where Paul himself tries a little doctoring, telling Timothy, “Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23)”
It has been proven that red wine does help the digestive tract. I have had to argue with christians on this. I finally won when I said “think of it like taking aspirin for a headache. You take two aspirin not the whole bottle. Same for wine take a glass or two not the whole bottle”.
yep
Thank you so much for clarifying and educating me. You are correct. So sciences in medicine has a long history of trying to deal with human illness, sometimes great, sometimes with goofs later altered.
I find it interesting that in the Mental Health arena it was the nuns that tried to care for the mentally ill in more compassionate ways as best they could without the medicine advances we have today. I don’t think the church or Christianity gets credit for this history.
caww,
It is so wonderful to know that the things we don’t understand ....God does!
Someday it will all make sense...but for now we Trust Him.
Newsflash -- your judgments of Warren on this thread accomplish nothing but keeping you from the peace that passes understanding. Any who may have been "deceived" by Rick Warren, as you claim, are responsible for their own gullibility and/or scriptural illiteracy. Gloating is a sin. Tying your negative opinion of Warren to the occasion of the death of his son makes Christians look hard and unforgiving in the face of a broken man's tragedy.
Show a little heart for a parent, any parent, who has lost a child. Represent the love of Christ.
I will be praying for you.
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