Why Mormonism will Surrender to Homosexuality

The Mormonism Research Ministry is a missionary/apologetics organization organized in 1979 to propagate the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to critically evaluate the differences between Mormonism and biblical Christianity. Of the many crucial differences, the Mormon rejection of the Genesis account of supernatural creation ex nihilo in favor of a naturalistic account is just one of many pressing differences.

MRM reveals that Joseph Smith taught that matter is eternal and the Mormon God Elohim had no power to create out of nothing. Elohim merely reorganized already present elements, which have no beginning or end and cannot be destroyed:

"Since Mormons believe that the elements are eternal, it follows that they deny the ex nihilo creation." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism 1:400).

From this it follows that a mere man can become God, as the great Mormon prophet Joseph Smith explains:

"It is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and suppose that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did... Here then, is eternal life – to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priest to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one. . . . (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-47

The Mormon God is a creature from within creation (nature). In fact, Mormon scripture states that he is merely a physical, exalted man who lives on a planet near the great star Kolob where he and his wives busily procreate millions of spirit children who are sent into this material realm of suffering and evil to live according to the laws of the gospel and thereby earn their own godhood over their own planet:

"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us." (D&C 310:22, Ed Decker, "The Lesser gods of Mormonism")

In the Genesis account the living, supernatural Triune God created all things ex-nihilo, or out of nothing. He is self-existent, eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. He is the sovereign Lord of the universe. He is the God of all creation. He is the God who stands outside of the space-time dimension, thus creation actually began before time came to be as God spoke life, soul/spirit, matter and all else out of nothing. The living, supernatural God is the First Cause of all things. (Psalm 33:6; John 1:3; Romans 4:17; Hebrews 11:3):

"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." Col. 1:16, 17

In the "Pagan Temptation," Christian scholar Thomas Molnar reports that the idea that matter is eternal is a pattern of thought stretching back to the ancient Babylonians, Egyptians, and Greeks in the West and in the East to the Upanishads:

"Matter is regarded as the opposite of God, equal to him or even greater in power, and thus absolutely evil. All of the great philosophers of Greece believed this....with the exception of Aristotle (and the materialists, of course.)" (P. 26)

In this way of thinking, everything somehow emerged out of either eternally existing matter as the ancients and Joseph Smith taught, or in contemporary terms from out of spontaneously-generated matter.

From the Babylonians forward, primordial matter has gone by many names. For example: divine One Substance, watery abyss, chaos, or void.

The Egyptian Sun-God Ra emerged (created himself) from out of Nu – the divine One Substance (primordial matter) and then as Joseph Smith recounts, became God "by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one:"

"I came into being from primordial matter...I made all the forms under which I appeared by means of (or out of) the god-soul which I raised up out of Nu (i.e., the primeval abyss of water.)" (The Long War Against God, Dr. Henry Morris, p. 243

In all pagan systems that speak of pre-existent matter as "spirit," Molnar writes that spirit is not personal. It is neither male nor female. It does not live, think or speak; it merely is. The human soul therefore is not created in the spiritual image of the living God Who exists outside of the time-space dimension (nature) Who Spoke and revealed Himself to man, thus it follows that humans are neither male nor female and that,

"Thought, reflection, and discursive reason entered the world through humanity..." (p. 30)

This is naturalism or materialism, which is the belief – taught by Joseph Smith – that there is neither living supernatural God nor heavenly realm outside of the space-time dimension. There is only the natural dimension.

Materialism is held in common by pantheism and spiritualism and dates back to pagan antiquity and was or is taught by all non-Biblical – but more specifically, non-Genesis account (creation ex nihilo) – thought systems.

At the heart of ancient and contemporary naturalism is monism, which refers to the view that pre-existent or spontaneously generated matter is the Ultimate Substance of which the universe and all life are made, therefore as the ancient Hermetic magic formula decrees, "as above, so below," or all is one.

In his book, "The God of Sex: How Spirituality Defines Your Sexuality," Dr. Peter Jones writes that pagan monism,

"(is) a mystical, unitive experience, a state in which distinctions disappear and opposites are joined. Androgyny, on a sexual level, reflects and confirms such an experience." (ibid, p.79)

Writing during the student revolution of the 1960s, Francis Schaeffer saw a transformation of consciousness permeating and overtaking the Western mindset, moving it away from the Christian ideal to the pagan model:

"Some forms of homosexuality today...are a philosophic expression...a denial of the antithesis. It has led in this case to an obliteration of the distinction between man and woman. So the male and the female as complimentary partners are finished." (The God of Sex: How Spirituality Defines Your Sexuality, Dr. Peter Jones, pp. 78-79)

As male and female distinctions drain into androgyny, the use of toddlers, older children and even babies for the sexual satisfaction of adults will not only be tolerated but prized, hence the pagan sage Xenophon declared:

"I must now speak of pederasty, for it affects education." (The One and the Many, Rousas John Rushdoony, p. 73)

"Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me." John 14:

The unresolvable problem for all nature systems, and this includes Mormonism, is the ultimate origin of life and soul/spirit. This is why contemporary naturalists such as SETI researcher Paul Davies and Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the DNA molecule, have rejected abiogenesis, the idea that brute matter spontaneously generated itself from nothing, in favor of panspermia.

Panspermia is the vain idea that life on earth was accidentally seeded by meteorites containing the essential building blocks of life or perhaps by highly evolved extraterrestrials from deep space who for billions of years have been guiding the evolution of man. The extraterrestrial idea was favored by Arthur C. Clarke in his book, "Childhood's End" and a variation on this theme has recently been advanced by Davies, Crick, and Ralph Pudritz of McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario.

Crick however admits that panspermia only pushes the unresolvable problem out into deep space:

"This scenario still leaves open the question of who designed the designer [aliens] – how did life originally originate?" (Crick, Life Itself: Its Origin and Nature, 1981)

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14

The revolutionary impact of the Christian teaching about creation ex nihilo and the Incarnation was nothing less than a scandal for pagan sages just as it is for 'new' pagan evolutionary materialists (i.e., Karl Marx, Freud), evolutionary pantheists like Hegel, Blavatsky, and Luciferian Theosophists, as well as for both pre-Christian and Christian-era Gnostic's and Mormon prophet Joseph Smith.

"...the spiritual being par excellence, should assume materiality – a thought as distasteful to their contemporaries as the idea of creation ex nihilo, which meant that matter too was God's creation and did not preexist creation as a separate and evil principle." (pp. 26-27)

In company with pagan sages, Mormonism rejects creation ex nihilo and the Incarnation. While faithful Christians adhere to the fact that Christ's birth was the result of a miraculous conception, that Mary was a virgin yet still conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18), according to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism,

"Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons and daughters of Elohim." (4:1676; Mormonism Research Ministry)

The LDS Church manual Gospel Principles makes clear that all men and women are children of the man-god Elohim:

"All men and women are literally sons and daughters of Deity." (2009, p. 9; ibid)

This includes the Mormon Jesus, who according to Sixth LDS President Joseph F. Smith was,

"Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors" (Gospel Doctrine, p.70; ibid).

So both Jesus (Jehovah) and his spirit-brother Lucifer were birthed by the man-god Elohim who lives near the great star Kolob. Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball comments,

"Long before you were born a program was developed by your creators ... The principal personalities in this great drama were a Father Elohim, perfect in wisdom, judgment, and person, and two sons, Lucifer and Jehovah." (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, pp. 32-33; Mormonism Research Ministry).

Putting all of this together, the Mormon man-god Elohim emerged (created himself) out of eternally existing matter much like the ancient Egyptian's self-created Sun-God Ra. And as with all ancient nature origin accounts, the Mormon man-god cannot account for either the ultimate origin of life or man's soul/spirit:

"The essence of the human is not the body, but the soul. It is the soul alone that God made in his own image and the soul that he loves....For the sake of the soul...the Son of God came into the world...." (Incomplete Work on Matthew, Homily 25, Ancient Christian Devotional, Oden and Crosby, p. 153)

Nor can it ultimately account for the two created sexes, male and female, since all things – including the Mormon man-god Elohim – somehow emerged out of genderless spirit (pre-existing matter). Thus like their ancient counterparts, Mormonism is fated to give way before the demands of gender-neutral homosexuality.

"Attorneys for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are in quiet discussions with leaders of Utah's gay and lesbian community, trying to hammer out language for a statewide ban on housing and employment discrimination that the church could support. Sen. Curt Bramble, R-Provo, opened a bill file on Thursday – the last day to request attorneys draft legislation – titled Housing and Employment Amendments and will sponsor the legislation should an agreement be reached." (Mormon Church Working on Bill to Protect Gays From Discrimination, hypervocal.com)

And while LDS attorneys hammer out tolerance policies with the gay and lesbian community, the Boy Scouts meanwhile, have put off deciding whether to reverse its long-standing policy regarding open homosexuality. The BSA's indecision is hailed by some as a strong stand, by 'gay' supporters as intolerant and bigoted. (Boy Scouts Stand Strong, Delay Potential Policy Reversal, Walker & Messner, heritage.org, 2/7/2013)

By whatever label – homosexual, gay, man-boy-lover, transgender, drag queen, bi-sexual – androgyny and nature systems go together like a hand and glove. Prior to Jesus Christ's earthly ministry pagan sages generally taught and practiced some form of gender-neutrality in keeping with their belief that pre-existent matter is the gender-free "one substance" out of which all things emerged. But when Jesus Christ – fully man-fully God – walked this earth, nature sages came face to face with the awful truth that God really exists, and further, that He really did create just two distinct sexes, male and female.

Nature philosophers and high priests had exchanged the truth about God for a lie (Romans 1:25-27). Writing in agreement, early Church Father Athanasius reveals that pride preceded man's fall into nature worship. A haughty spirit led them to disregard the higher things of God and seek in preference lower things here in the natural dimension.

"...is that it originates, and resides, in the perverted choice of the darkened soul "which, materialized by forgetting God," and engrossed in lower things (i.e. matter, chemicals, DNA) "makes them into gods" and thereby "descends into a hopeless depth of delusion and superstition" whereby "they ceased to think that anything existed beyond what is seen (naturalism)....so turning away and forgetting that she was made in the image of the good God...sees no longer the Word after whose likeness she is made...." (Against the Heathen, New Advent)

Ideas have consequences. For Mormonism – as with evolutionary materialism, its secular derivatives and occult 'green' pantheist New Age spirituality – the predisposing corruption resides in foundational ideations. Thus in the rejection of the supernatural Triune God of Revelation together with the Genesis account of creation ex nihilo resides the inability to account for the origin of life, of man's soul/spirit (reason, will, conscience), immutable truth, moral absolutes, fixed meaning, and purpose (Psalm 115:4-8).

And with the rejection of the Incarnation (the historical Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity), comes the inability to logically account for and defend the two sexes. Thus the fate of Mormonism together with evolutionary materialism and occult pantheism is to not only fall into moral relativism and superstition but to eventually give way to the demands of unrestrained libido – including the use of children for the sexual gratification of adults. And these are the crimes against nature said Augustine,

"(which are the) crimes of the men of Sodom (and if) all nations in the world committed them they would all stand guilty of the same crime against the Law of God, which did not design men so that they should use each other this way." (Confessions of St. Augustine, p. 49)

Sorry for the repost, but you’ve got to read this:

First, I don’t set the standard, God does. His Holy Bible is clear on ex nihilo creation, there is pre-Genesis matter being worked on. That doesn’t destroy the majesty, power and wonder of His creation. It just means it wasn’t, as recored in the Bible, ex nihilo.

Reading it again will help:

Here’s Genesis 1: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm and 2: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-2.htm

Young’s Literal Translation makes it clearest:

In the beginning of God’s preparing the heavens and the earth — the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,

That’s verse 1 and 2 from Young’s Literal. It is obvious now, no?

The Biblical text states clearly that the earth in its void/formless/empty state was there to be worked on already. It’s existance doesn’t undermine the power, authority or majesty of God.

His first act is contained in Gen. 1:3. He tames chaos/disorder by immediately declaring light. There are a lot of great scientific attributes of light that make this beginning so amazing. There are also wonderful religious metaphors for light, not the least of which is joy.

So enjoy yourself, God and His Holy Word.

Reading it again will help:

Here’s Genesis 1: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm and 2: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-2.htm

Young’s Literal Translation makes it clearest:

That’s verse 1 and 2 from Young’s Literal. It is obvious now, no?

The Biblical text states clearly that the earth in its void/formless/empty state was there to be worked on already. It’s existance doesn’t undermine the power, authority or majesty of God.

So enjoy yourself, God and His Holy Word.

It is useful to keep talking, only if you’re able to be taught. Otherwise, you’re wasting my time and wearying me.

This is my last post on this thread:

Reading it again will help:

Here’s Genesis 1: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm and 2: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-2.htm

Young’s Literal Translation makes it clearest:

That’s verse 1 and 2 from Young’s Literal. It is obvious now, no?

The Biblical text states clearly that the earth in its void/formless/empty state was there to be worked on already. It’s existance doesn’t undermine the power, authority or majesty of God.

So enjoy yourself, God and His Holy Word.

New International Version (©1984)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
New Living Translation (©2007)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Standard Version (©2001)
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

International Standard Version (©2012)
In the beginning, God created the universe.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
In the beginning God created heaven and earth.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

American King James Version
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

American Standard Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.

Darby Bible Translation
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Revised Version
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Webster's Bible Translation
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

World English Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Young's Literal Translation
In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth —

One out of 17 ain't bad I guess.

But it still begs the original question, this formless Earth, where did it come from. Speculate if you need to.

Your humility is charming.

But one will have to forgive a lowly cretin such as myself if I am not swayed by the words of one who themselves will not speak for what belief system they stand for, nor speak as to what they base the ability to remove ignorance from us ignorant (and obviously petulant) rubes.

I know its silly but if some one wants to “remove my ignorance” i would like some basis on which to assure myself that they are not actually making it real...

Your humility is charming.

I know its silly but if some one wants to “remove my ignorance” i would like some basis on which to assure myself that they are not actually making it real...

Let’s see, first you self-righteously reject the words of men (Church Fathers) and then you hypocritically apply your favored interpretation, pre-existent matter, an ancient concept secretly revealed by disembodied, malign intelligences to MEN, not God.

It is not that Our Lord did not create ex nihilo but rather that proud, willful men who prefer pagan concepts, i.e., of a limited deity and pre-existent matter, reject Truth in preference of the Lie.

It’s 17/17. Gen. 1:1 isn’t any action, it’s an introductory statement. Read the Hebrew here: http://biblos.com/genesis/1-1.htm

The Hebrew indicates forming, shaping, creating, but from an existing item. http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/1254.htm

53 verb shape, create (compare Arabic probably loan-word, form, fashion by cutting, shape out, pare a reed for writing, a stick for an arrow,....

In the beginning is simply placing it at the start of the Biblical narrative, not just of Genesis, but the entire Masoretic text.

http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/7225.htm

So every example you give is the same thing and none of them imply an act of creation at that moment. It starts in Gen. 1:3, but the introduction of Gen. 1:1 is followed by what God had to work with and what state it was in, see Gen. 1:2.

As to where the pre-Genesis matter came from the Bible doesn’t say and neither will I. Clearly, God is capable of creating anything at anytime.

One interesting item to consider is how increasingly precise measuring instruments have destroyed the concept of “nothing”. In math we think of nothing as a null set, but when measuring the presence or absence of a physical item the fineness of the measurement is what counts. For a long time zero held, then we developed the technology to more precisely measure and nothing became something.

I am not self-righteously rejecting the words of the “Church Fathers”, just your interpretation of them and pointing out the limitations of human thought and perception. Feel free to accept what they said, but read their words direclty. They’re available online. The earliest Church Fathers don’t confirm either ex nihilo creation or the modern conception of the Trinity.

As I said earlier, believe what you want to believe. I simply used our common belief in the Bible to discuss your misconception about the creation story. I presume you’re Catholic. I commend your appeal to authority and understand it. Withouth authority and without a Priesthood of God you’ve got paganism, i.e. self-worship. It’s the warning contained in the first four of the Ten Commandments. Outside of Catholicism and Orthodoxy churches are tyrannies of democracy and anarcho-Christian in outlook where parishoners choose their own god. That’s wrong, unBiblical and unChristian.

We’re warned over and over again against these false teachers who would alter God’s word. That said, any reading of the Bible at nearly any point will show that apostasy is the standard form for humanity and that God is always working to bring people back to him. Moses took apostate Israel out of Egypt. The prophets throughout worked against apostasy. Jesus ministered to apostate Israel and they were certain that they had the truth.

What you see is that apostasy is the steady state. Those in majoritarian control rarely have the truth and yet there is always a remnant remaining, working miracles, preserving the ordinances and maintaining the Gospel. That’s the story of the Bible. Take a look.

“This is my last post on this thread:”

So along with the fact you refuse to acknowledge your own Church, you refuse to give any substance to your qualifications on spiritual matters you also say one thing and do another.

And you ask me to look to you to clear any ignorance you think I have?

Really?

My Church? Christ’s

My qualifications? I am a polymath, lead by the Light of Christ and His Holy Spirit with the same qualifications as Jesus’ followers throughout all time.

When have the learned doctors of the Old or New Testaments ever been with Him?

Am I asking you to look to me to cure your ignorance? No, absolutely not. That’s why throughout this discussion I’ve referenced only God’s Holy Word. Reason and faith are all you need to set your path straight, but it is a narrow path and easily missed without a child’s open mind and faith.

Really? Yes, really.

Many places claim to be Christ’s Church. Many of them are, and more than a few clearly are not despite their best efforts at verbal and spiritual gymnastics.

It is more than interesting that you so avoid naming your Church specifically and have done so for some time. It is rather an easy thing, people do it every day. One asks of another “What Church do you attend?”, the other replies “Methodist” or “Catholic” or “Baptist” or even “LDS” without all the cute replies and coy answers.

Such actions scream that SOMETHING is up.

As it is you seem to claim no more basis of authority or education than any of the rest of us give or take, so you will excuse us if we take your claims of “teaching us” and exposing our alleged ignorance, especially in light of all the cute games lo these many months with more than a few grains of salt.

A great polymath such as yourself who holds such knowledge and understanding can comprehend our dilemma...

“throughout this discussion I’ve referenced only God’s Holy Word...”

Spirited: A limited deity that emerged over time out of self-generated or so-called pre-existent matter is not holy. And no matter how often one communes with it, it cannot respond because it cannot think, speak, or move since it is a nature deity.

From the Babylonians, Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Upanishad Hindus, Luciferian Theosophists, high degree Masons, dialectical materialists, Joseph Smith/LDs, and occult spiritist New Age, the worship of matter is a constant. All of these nature systems have exchanged the truth about God for the Lie of matter worship (Romans)

1010RD does not understand Paul’s meaning in Romans. If he did he would see that Paul is describing not just the Epicureans, Stoics, etc. but LDs as well.

If you really seek the living, supernatural Holy Word then you must repent of matter worship and seek Him in communion with true Christians. Doubtless ejonsie would gladly help you in this.

Exactly and few know of the doctrine, hence the need to read God’s Holy Writ. There are those more concerned with “credentials” than with the Bible.

Instead, look to Christ’s example. Which Apostle was a trained theologian? What wages were the Apostles paid? Christ’s Church, if it exists on earth in our day, must follow the plan he set out, not the ideas of men.

What bothers you most is the clarity of the Bible itself. It stands in contradiction of what you want to believe; what you want to be true. You’re unable to refute what you have seen demonstrated because you know it is true, as true as the Holy Bible and God’s own Word. Concentrate on that. Pray on that. Ponder it in your heart and mind.

Stop thinking about anything else. All is fleeting, but the Kingdom of God and His Will be done. Take care, FRiend.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.