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To: 1010RD; ejonesie22

Let’s see, first you self-righteously reject the words of men (Church Fathers) and then you hypocritically apply your favored interpretation, pre-existent matter, an ancient concept secretly revealed by disembodied, malign intelligences to MEN, not God.

It is not that Our Lord did not create ex nihilo but rather that proud, willful men who prefer pagan concepts, i.e., of a limited deity and pre-existent matter, reject Truth in preference of the Lie.


271 posted on 02/15/2013 1:25:11 PM PST by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish; ejonesie22

I am not self-righteously rejecting the words of the “Church Fathers”, just your interpretation of them and pointing out the limitations of human thought and perception. Feel free to accept what they said, but read their words direclty. They’re available online. The earliest Church Fathers don’t confirm either ex nihilo creation or the modern conception of the Trinity.

As I said earlier, believe what you want to believe. I simply used our common belief in the Bible to discuss your misconception about the creation story. I presume you’re Catholic. I commend your appeal to authority and understand it. Withouth authority and without a Priesthood of God you’ve got paganism, i.e. self-worship. It’s the warning contained in the first four of the Ten Commandments. Outside of Catholicism and Orthodoxy churches are tyrannies of democracy and anarcho-Christian in outlook where parishoners choose their own god. That’s wrong, unBiblical and unChristian.

We’re warned over and over again against these false teachers who would alter God’s word. That said, any reading of the Bible at nearly any point will show that apostasy is the standard form for humanity and that God is always working to bring people back to him. Moses took apostate Israel out of Egypt. The prophets throughout worked against apostasy. Jesus ministered to apostate Israel and they were certain that they had the truth.

What you see is that apostasy is the steady state. Those in majoritarian control rarely have the truth and yet there is always a remnant remaining, working miracles, preserving the ordinances and maintaining the Gospel. That’s the story of the Bible. Take a look.


274 posted on 02/15/2013 3:42:57 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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