Who is the Harlot AND Her Daughters?

12/3/2012 | self

[DouglasKC]

Question: In the passages below a harlot symbolizes something. The title on her head is "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." One of the titles is "the mother of harlots". This suggests that there are other harlots that have sprung from this harlot.

This is more curiosity then anything else...but what are opinions on what this represents?

Rev 17:1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,
Rev 17:2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication."
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication.
Rev 17:5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev 17:6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
Rev 17:7 But the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 17:9 "Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.
Rev 17:10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.
Rev 17:11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.
Rev 17:12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.
Rev 17:14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful."

[Cronos]

Hey, I’m going to continue boasting of the power of Jesus Christ. If it annoys you, tough luck. Go to DU

[Just mythoughts]

What does ‘sabbath’ mean? How many times has the calendar been changed. God gave prophecies about those of the solar - sun-Son - children of light, and then prophecies about children of darkness - moons, lunar, months.

There is no one who can argue with credibility that our 7th day of the week is still the same day of the week as was instituted by the hand of God, though Moses. Wonder why God allowed that to happen IF He intended to punish people for not keeping that particular day?

Christ became our Sabbath, the word means ‘rest’. And not one day should go by without a Christian ‘resting’ in Christ.

Have you noticed that since the beginning the majority were always on the side of wrong, not ‘right’.... still nothing new under the sun because church has become the new idol. People need to belong to something and post after post is about trashing this church or another church with total disregard of the log in the eye of their church. God is judge and when and IF He wants the eyes/ears opened of any one of us He is able.

[Cronos]

perhaps actually reading would help, right?

If Rome is the harlot city, as the majority opinion presumes, there is a problem in that it was never destroyed. It was sacked many centuries after Biblical times (in the late 4th and early 5th Centuries AD), but it was never burned or destroyed as depicted in Revelation. Jerusalem however was destroyed and burned in 70 AD and thereby correspondent to the prophecies of the Book of Revelation (e.g. Rev 18:18 inter al).

In the Old Testament, Jerusalem, and the people of Israel are called the “harlot” since they have committed adultery, forsaken the Lord, and are sleeping with false gods. Nowhere in the Old Testament is Rome or any pagan city called a harlot. But Jerusalem repeatedly is.

(Isa 1:20-21) But if you refuse and rebel [O, Israel], you shall be devoured by the sword; for the mouth of the LORD has spoken.” {21} How the faithful city has become a harlot, she that was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers.

.(Jer 2:19-20) Your wickedness will chasten you, and your apostasy will reprove you. Know and see that it is evil and bitter for you to forsake the LORD your God; the fear of me is not in you, says the Lord GOD of hosts. {20} “For long ago you broke your yoke and burst your bonds; and you said, ‘I will not serve.’ Yea, upon every high hill and under every green tree you bowed down as a harlot.

[Cronos]

Bluedragon -- you were asking about British Israelism, well here is it Today, America, Canada, Britain -- Israelitish nations. descended from the ancient so-called lost ten tribes of Israel -- are actually in the ways of this "BABYLON."

It's still alive and well :)

[Responsibility2nd]

Double standard?

Evangelicals LIVE by the double standard around here. Look at post 201; the reply to 196.

Does he answer my questions? Is he confronting the truth?

Nahhhh... Just a stock response from someone who loses the arguement:

“Go to DU”

Typical.

[Boogieman]

“I’m not trying to be difficult here but be specific in what she said that did not come to pass.”

She falsely predicted the end of the world and the Second Coming of Christ, many times, and was wrong every time. Here’s a site that has some details about that:

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/ellen_white_false_prophecy.html

“But the Catholics want to disparage the SDA’s by posting the ex SDA website that says absolutely nothing and yet their own teachings veer FAR FAR FAR from the Bible. Praying to statues and dead people, priests forgiving sins, etc., are NOT grounded in Biblical truth.”

Well, if the Catholics are wrong in some of their doctrines, it doesn’t mean the SDAs’ doctrine is sound simply because they denounce the Catholics’ errors. One needs to look at all things critically, with the Bible as the standard of proof.

[BlueDragon]

It was the JOHN Smith part that threw me. The rest, well whatever. Quaint theories. Lots of folks have them. Some are more well stocked than others.

[Syncro]

Thanks for the very informative post, xzins!

I once heard Chuck Missler say about those that believed differently that “we will explain it to them on the way up.”

[xzins]

Lots of good verses. Thanks.

If you summed up your position, what would it be?

[BlueDragon]

I don’t think he’s an “evangelical”, Ask him. He thrives in categorization or religious divisions, from a particular perspective.

[Boogieman]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[xzins]

That’s why it’s just one of the pieces of evidence.

[xzins]

Missler in among those preacher/teachers who can pack so much info into such a short period of time and with clarity.

I’m in awe of such a gift. I wouldn’t turn such a thing down.

[Boogieman]

“Ok, so when Christ said “on this day”, He didn’t really mean it?”

I’m sure he meant it. He didn’t, however, say the thief would be in “Heaven, on this day”, or “resurrected, on this day”, but that the thief would be in “paradise, on this day”. Most of the possible meanings of “paradise” are quite different than the traditional meaning of heaven. It may instead refer to the place known as Abraham’s bosom, or as Strong’s Concordance puts it:

“3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise”

This would make perfect sense, because even if the thief did go to heaven on that day, Christ wouldn’t have been with him, since Christ went down to the grave that day, and not to heaven. The only way the statement really makes sense is if the “paradise” is part of the grave/sheol, and that is why Christ would be with him, since that was where Christ was headed as well.

[Just mythoughts]

If you summed up your position, what would it be?

I take the Words of Christ as His Standard, the one by which I will be judged. I accept Paul's description of Ephesians 1:4, the 'chosen', 'election', took place as Paul says before the foundation of this world, which is actually a verb that means before the casting down - overthrow of the first rebel. Those elected holy prophets as Peter calls them wrote the script that we on any given day can see being played out. Christ said for the elect's sake time was shortened. But every event He said in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 (which are the seals/trumps/vials, John elaborates upon in Revelation) will take place, but in quick time.

The tribulation is deception, notice how many times Christ repeated that warning in the above name books. So much so that Paul says II Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie;

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Paul also says Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

All of these things tell what that tribulation is. We have war and rumors of war all over this globe but Christ said Matthew 24:6 ........ see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass but the end is not yet.

So all the white faced fear of a bloody 'anti-Christ' is misleading, because he will play the part of Jesus coming to save IF whatever tradition of man passed down through the generations will be part of his script. Problem is the majority do not have a clue the first supernatural being dumped out of heaven is none other than the devil himself. Why would Paul write Ephesians 6 if the church was not going to be here to take a stand against the devil?

Christ did not need be tempted by the devil, Christ did that for us to see what the devil's method of operation will be.

Check out the 6th trump, the 6th seal, and the 6th vial all point to the instead of Jesus. Christ does not return until the last trump, the 7th.

[Responsibility2nd]

Oh, I think I was confusing. No, I know that poster is no Evangelical. By no means. I know exactly what he is and his motives for posting here.

I’M the Evangelical Christian. And I meant to say that I (and all other Evangelicals) live and FReep around here UNDER the double standard set by Catholics.

[xzins]

The 7th seal opens up the trumpet judgments, but the 7th trumpet sounds before the vials/bowls are poured out.

[BlueDragon]

Ok. Yet to double-standard is only human. Individual mileage will vary ;)

[Boogieman]

“That’s why it’s just one of the pieces of evidence.”

Well, they can’t be very good pieces of evidence, if you must bolster them with weak sauce such as that.

[Yosemitest]

The order of the days of the week has NEVER changed.

Read from THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA.

Sunday (Day of the Sun), as the name of the first day of the week, is derived from Egyptian astrology.
The seven planets, known to us as Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, the Sun, Venus, Mercury, and the Moon, each had an hour of the day assigned to them,
and the planet which was regent during the first hour of any day of the week gave its name to that day (see CALENDAR).
During the first and second century the week of seven days was introduced into Rome from Egypt, and the Roman names of the planets were given to each successive day.
The Teutonic nations seem to have adopted the week as a division of time from the Romans, but they changed the Roman names into those of corresponding Teutonic deities.
Hence the dies Solis became Sunday (German, Sonntag).
Sunday was the first day of the week according to the Jewish method of reckoning,
but for Christians it began to take the place of the Jewish Sabbath in Apostolic times as the day set apart for the public and solemn worship of God.

Now let's study the 4th Commandment.

"Remember the Sabbath Day"
Most professing Christians believe that Sunday has replaced the seventh-day Sabbath.
Somehow they have come to assume that they can keep the Fourth Commandment by observing Sunday.
Others feel that it is not necessary to keep any specific day as a Sabbath.
They believe every day is a "spiritual" Sabbath.

Let's look directly into the Word of God for the truth about this key commandment.
1. When, how and by whom was the Sabbath "made"? Gen. 2:1-3; Mark 2:28.
COMMENT: Jesus Christ is the "Lord" of the Sab- bath because He made it!
(Recall from our past studies that Christ is the "LORD" God of the Old Testament, and the Creator of all things.)
Christ created the Sabbath by the act of resting on the seventh day of what is commonly called creation week.
He blessed and sanctified the Sabbath - put His divine favor upon and set apart for a special use and purpose, a 24-hour period of time that was to occur once every seven days.

2. For whom did Jesus say the Sabbath was made? Mark 2:27.
COMMENT: "The Sabbath was made for man," declared Jesus.
It was made the day after man was created.
The Sabbath was set apart at Creation for the benefit of all mankind.
(Since Adam was the first man, he therefore stood as the representative of the whole human race which has descended from him.)

3. How did Christ intend the Sabbath to serve our needs? Ex. 20:8-11; Deut. 5:12-15.
COMMENT: Notice that God made the seventh day of the week holy-and He commands us to keep it that way.
The Sabbath, then, is holy time.
And it was made to be a great blessing for all humanity.

The word "Sabbath" means "rest" in the original Hebrew.
Simple physical rest and mental relaxation after a week of hard work is an obvious reason for the Sabbath.
But the true purpose of the Sabbath goes far beyond resting from our work on this day.
This is because the seventh-day Sabbath is inextricably interwoven into God's transcendent purpose for creating man.

Human beings desperately need this period of time in which to have spiritual contact with God.
Time in which to think more about God and to worship Him in private prayer, personal Bible study and in fellowship with others.

4. Was the observance of the Sabbath day to be a special "sign" of identification between God and His people Israel? Ex. 31:13-17.
COMMENT: A quick review of a portion of Israel's history is in order at this point.
Recall that the Israelites had been slaves of the Egyptians.
While in Egypt, the Israelites were forbidden to worship the true God.
They were forced to work seven days a week.
As time passed, they forgot the knowledge of the true Sabbath day, which they had received from their forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

After God miraculously delivered the Israelites from the hands of their cruel taskmasters, He revealed the exact seventh day to them
by supplying a double portion of manna on the sixth day of the week (Friday)
and withholding manna on the seventh day (Saturday), and commanding them to rest on that day (Ex. 16:22-30).
(Recall also that the miracle of the manna continued for their entire 40-year sojourn in the wilderness- verse 35.)
After revealing the true Sabbath day, God codified the Sabbath commandment at Mount Sinai by including it as one of the ten great commandments, which He wrote on two tables of stone.

In order that the Israelites would especially remember that the eternal God is the Creator, Sustainer and Supreme Ruler over all His creation,
God singled out Sabbath observance as the one great "sign" by which they could always be reminded of who He is, and who they were.

Many other nations had laws that paralleled some of the laws of God.
Some had fairly strict moral laws, usually criminal (e.g., against mur- der and stealing).
But none had a law requiring them to keep the Creator's seventh-day Sabbath.
Therefore it was the one law of God that would make Israel stand out from all the other nations.

God doubly commanded Sabbath observance by making it a separate covenant with His people Israel.
(The Sabbath was already one of the Ten Commandments, which God gave to Moses shortly before the Old Covenant was ratified.)
Sabbath observance was to be an everlasting covenant (Ex. 31:16), and would identify the people of God.

Likewise today, the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath is one of the signs that helps to identify those who are God's people today.

NOTE: A PARTLY RESTORED SYNAGOGUE in Capernaum is believed to be built on the original site of a synagogue in which Christ taught on the seventh-day Sabbath "as his custom was" (Luke 4:16, 31).

5. Does the Bible plainly reveal that a real Chris- tian is one who has become a spiritual Israelite- one of Abraham's "seed" through Jesus Christ? Gal. 3:28-29; Rom. 4:16; 9:4.
COMMENT: God made the special Sabbath covenant with Abraham's physical "seed."
It was to be obeyed throughout their generations.
Today, all Spirit-begotten Christians have become Abraham's spiritual "seed" through faith in Christ,
and are therefore under the same obligation to keep the Sabbath day!

6. Did Jesus Christ keep the Sabbath? Luke 4:16,31.
COMMENT: Jesus regularly attended religious services on the Sabbath "as his custom was."
Thus He fulfilled His own command to meet for worship services every Sabbath day (Lev. 23:3).
This is the day He would obviously observe, because He is the One who originally made the Sabbath and ordained that it be kept holy!

7. Is there biblical evidence that the early New Testament Church also observed the Sabbath? Acts 13:14-15, 42-44; 14:1; 17:1-2; 18:1-11.

8. Was it Paul's "manner" (Acts 17:2), even as it was Christ's "custom" (Luke 4:16), to keep the Sabbath because Paul felt like it, or because Jesus Christ dwelt in him? Gal. 2:20.
Does Christ's will remain the same forever? Heb. 13:8.
COMMENT: It is quite plain that the Apostle Paul observed the seventh-day Sabbath.
And if Christ lives His life in us today through the Holy Spirit as He did in Paul, then we will also be keeping the same day Jesus and Paul kept! (I Cor. 11:1.)

9. What are all Christians warned in Hebrews 3:8-13?
Was rebellion, especially Sabbath breaking, the reason God prevented an entire generation of ancient Israelites from entering His "rest"? Ezek. 20:12-13, 15-16.
COMMENT: Because Israel had become rebellious and polluted God's Sabbaths, God did not allow the generation that came out of Egypt to enter the Promised Land-a symbolic type of the Kingdom of God.
Those Israelites under Moses were headed toward the Promised Land, even as God's Spirit-begotten people today are aiming at the goal of entering into God's Kingdom.

The word "rest" in Hebrews 3:11 is translated from the Greek katapausin, which is defined as "rest" or "place of rest."
As used in this verse, it denoted for ancient Israel "rest" from their wanderings in the wilderness by entering the Promised Land.
This is a TYPE of the Christian's spiritual rest-being born as immortal Sons of God into the KINGDOM OF GOD!

10. Was it primarily because of their unbelief that the Israelites disobeyed, and therefore were prevented from entering God's "rest" for them- the land of Canaan? Heb. 3:19; 4:1-2.
COMMENT: Because the Israelites did not believe God, and therefore lacked faith in Him, they "hardened their hearts."
They profaned God's Sabbaths even though He had made that the very testing point
("that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no"-Ex. 16:4);
therefore God said of that generation, "They shall not enter into my rest" (Heb. 3:11).

And none except faithful Joshua and Caleb of that generation entered the Promised Land.
But the next generation, the children born along the way during the 40 years, did enter with these two men.
God had originally promised this land to Abraham for his descendants,
and regardless of whether or not the Israelites sinned, God was bound to keep His promise.

Notice that before the second generation of Israelites crossed the Jordan River into the Promised Land, Joshua said to the men of three tribes:
"The LORD your God hath given you REST, and hath given you this land" (Josh. 1:13).

11. But if New Testament Christians believe and obey God, may they enter their "rest"- eternal life in God's Kingdom? Heb. 4:3, first nine words, and verse II.
COMMENT: The result is very clear: Real belief produces obedience!
If a person truly believes God's Word, he will be keeping the Sabbath!

12. Will true believers be keeping God's weekly Sabbath day as a symbol of their future "rest" in God's Kingdom? Heb. 4:9.
COMMENT: The vital meaning of this verse has been obscured by the King James rendering of the word "rest."
Everywhere else in chapters 3 and 4 of the epistle to the Hebrews, the English word "rest" is translated from the Greek word katapausin.
However, in verse 9 of chapter 4, "rest" is translated from the Greek sabbatismos, meaning literally (as most Bible margins show) the keeping of a Sabbath.

So, because of the future "rest" (katapausin)-the Kingdom of God that spiritual Israel is to enter-there remains for them a sabbatismas, the keeping of the Sabbath day.
This means that Christians will enter the future "rest" of God's Kingdom even as they now keep the weekly Sabbath, which is a type that pictures it!

Most English translations of the Bible have correctly translated Hebrews 4:9. Even the margin of the King James Version renders it:
"There remaineth therefore a keeping of a sabbath to the people of God."
The Revised Standard Version translates it:
"So then, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God."
The Jerusalem Bible states:
"There must still be, therefore, a place of rest reserved for God's people, the seventh-day rest."

13. What further encouragement are Chris- tians given about entering God's eternal "rest"? Heb. 4:10-11.
Where may they go for the help- the faith- needed to obey God? Verses 14-16.
COMMENT: Notice how the Revised Standard Version renders verses 10-11:
"For whoever enters God's rest [the Kingdom of God] also ceases from his labors as God did from his [on the seventh day following the six working days of creation] .
Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, that no one fall by the same sort of dis- obedience [as ancient Israel did]."

God's seventh-day Sabbath is not to be treated lightly, for the Sabbath is both a memorial and a shadow.
It is a memorial of Creation and a foreshadow of the coming eternal "rest" that Spirit-begotten Christians will enter when born into God's eternal Family.

14. Did God command the entire nation of Israel to assemble ("convoke") on the Sabbath? Lev. 23:3; Num. 28:25.
What are New Testament Christians admonished regarding the assembling of themselves? Heb. 10:25.
COMMENT: As early New Testament Christians assembled together every Sabbath day, likewise God's Church in this age also assembles for worship services on God's holy Sabbaths, and has congregations all over the world.
Every Sabbath, God's people meet to receive spiritual instruction and inspiration from the Word of God as expounded by the ministry of His Church (Eph. 4:11-13).
They attentively listen to His ministers expound the Christian way of life as revealed in the Bible.
Before and after services, members fellowship with and encourage one another, making new friendships and strengthening old ones.

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