Posted on 08/23/2012 8:20:55 PM PDT by delacoert
Edited on 08/23/2012 8:26:36 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
In recent decades the Republican Party has made a person’s religious beliefs an issue for election to political office, despite the First Amendment to the Constitution explicitly forbidding this.
For the Republicans, that requirement is a person must be a Christian. Mitt Romney has chosen staunch Roman Catholic Paul Ryan as his running mate. That should help divert some of the concern about Romney himself being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints — a Mormon.
There has been debate, including in The Herald-News’ OpenLine, about whether or not Mormons are true Christians. Most people don’t know what Mormons believe, so I thought I would publicize some of their basic precepts, all of which can be easily confirmed.
Mormons believe that “God” created multiple worlds with people living on them. Multiple gods exist but each has its own universe. All people existed as pre-mortal spirit children of God and are then physically born on this earth and are subject only to our specific “God.” If you follow God and his law (the precepts of the LDS Church) you can reach the highest level of heaven and become a “God” also.
Our “God” was a mortal on another planet who reached this highest level and became “God.” He had a mortal wife who also became a “Goddess.” He physically had sexual relations with Mary and Jesus became mortal from his spirit life as the eldest son of “God.”
Mormons recognize God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but all three are not one substance but completely different beings forming one “godhead.”
They feel the early Christian Church became corrupted by pagan influences at the Council of Nicea. The Church was finally “restored” through appearances by God, Jesus and some of the apostles to Joseph Smith, beginning in 1820 at age 14. (Smith and his mother and father all believed in “visions, prophecies and folk magic.”) Joseph Smith viewed himself as the “prophet” of God who spoke to the people through him. The LDS still has a “prophet” who can have visions from God and announce new Church beliefs, such as the acceptance of African Americans into the “priesthood” in 1978.
Further beliefs: When people die, the “spirit” is separated from the body and either goes to “spirit heaven” or “spirit prison” waiting for the second coming; Jesus appeared to the people of America after his resurrection; and God, Jesus, and “resurrected beings” have bodies of flesh and bone.
They believe there is no salvation outside the LDS Church, there is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet, and Satan originated the idea that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation.
Mormons believe the entire world must be converted to Mormonism, and they proselytize aggressively.
The final item is their belief in “temple garments,” often referred to as “Mormon underwear.” These are worn day and night, and are required to be worn to enter a temple. They are believed to be a constant reminder of the LDS covenant with God and are a “source of protection from evil.”
These are some of the beliefs of Mitt Romney, the man who would be president; beliefs he does not want to discuss. What do you think?
My point was that Mormonism is alone in that claim.
Christianity is clear that Mormonism is not Christian, it isn’t an inside the Christian family argument of theology, like one of Catholic versus Orthodox, versus Protestant, it is a universal Christian recognition that Mormonism isn’t even in the ball park, but instead, is purely a polytheistic creation of Joseph Smith.
“he problem with insisting on ideological purity is that it eventually leaves you all alone, without any allies. Then when the barbarians come, you are overwhelmed.
Of course, the opposite is also true. If you accept everything, then you stand for nothing.
For me, I look for a middle ground, I believe in Reagan’s “big tent” philosophy. I view Mormons as VERY misguided Christians, but Christians nevertheless.”
There’s your problem. You think a disagreement about this matter is just political ideology. You don’t seem to realize that it is a damnable heresy and people are going to hell over it. Sorry, but the truth of God is more important than your big tent and hell-bound politicians.
“Romney thinks he’s a Christian. All Mormons think they are Christians. They aren’t practicing some sort of deception. They are saying what they really think.”
If that’s the Mormon position, then they do not believe that Christians are Christian.
“Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the Church of the Lamb of God and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of God belongeth to that great church; which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.” (The Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10)
“Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” (Documentary History of the Church, Introduction, xl)
“I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight” (Joseph Smith History 1:19).
“...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian.” (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)
“...the God whom the ‘Christians’ worship is a being of their own creation...” (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)
“The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God.” (Brigham Young, JD 8:171)
“We may very properly say that the sectarian world do not know anything correctly, so far as pertains to salvation. Ask them where heaven is?- where they are going to when they die?-where Paradise is! -and there is not a priest in the world that can answer your questions. Ask them what kind of a being our Heavenly Father is, and they cannot tell you so much as Balaam’s ass told him. They are more ignorant than children.” (Brigham Young, JD 5:229).
“The Christian world, I discovered, was like the captain and crew of a vessel on the ocean without a compass, and tossed to and fro whithersoever the wind listed to blow them. When the light came to me, I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness.” (Brigham Young, JD 5:73).
“What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best.” (John Taylor, JD 13:225)
“What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God.” (John Taylor, JI) 13:225)
“Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177)
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” (Joseph Smith, DHC 1:6)
“I spoke of the impropriety of turning away from the truth, and going after a people so destitute of righteousness as the Methodists.” (Joseph Smith, DHC 2:319)
“...brother Joseph B. Nobles once told a Methodist priest, after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshiped was the “Mormon’s” Devil-a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts and passions.” (Brigham Young, JD 5:331)
“...brother Heber C. Kimball was beset by a number of Baptist priests who had been attending a conference. He read them all down out of the New Testament....With regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world.” (Brigham Young, JD 8:199).
“The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon....” (Orson Pratt, Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle,”Divine Authenticity,” no.6, p.84).
“...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels.” (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60)
“And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act.” (Orson Pratt, OP-WA, “The Kingdom of God,” no.2, p.6)
“...all other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who recieves baptism or the Lord’s supper from their hands will highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt people.” (Orson Pratt, The Seer, pg. 255)
“...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil.” (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)
“Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness.” (Pratt, The Seer, p.255)
“Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.” (Brigham Young, JD 6:176)
“Evil spirits control much of the so-called religious worship in the world; for instance, the great creeds of Christendom were formulated so as to conform to their whispered promptings.” (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.246)
“After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christiandom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common orgin. They belong to Babylon.” (George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p.324)
“You may hear the divines of the day extol the character of the Saviour, undertake to exhibit his true character before the people, and give an account of his origin...I have frequently thought of mules, which you know are half horse and half ass, when reflecting upon the representations made by those divines. I have heard sectarian priests undertake to tell the character of the Son of God, and they make him half of one species and half of another, and I could not avoid thinking at once of the mule, which is the most hateful creature that ever was made, I believe. You will excuse me, but I have thus thought many a time” (Journal of Discourses 4:217).
Romney thinks he’s a Christian. All Mormons think they are Christians. They aren’t practicing some sort of deception. They are saying what they really think.It's a confusing faith. Romney seems a good family man, and if he wasn't so controlling, and so back-and-forth on [for me] major issues, I could maybe vote for him, but right now, I'm still deciding, and hoping for a miracle of sorts.
Here we agree 100%. You and I can have our opinions on scripture, but we are only mortals. God alone will decide the validity of Mormonism.
Good night to you!
“For me, I look for a middle ground, I believe in Reagan’s “big tent” philosophy. I view Mormons as VERY misguided Christians, but Christians nevertheless.”
Is your big-tent Christianity biblical? Can you support it with Scripture?
“Here we agree 100%. You and I can have our opinions on scripture, but we are only mortals. God alone will decide the validity of Mormonism.”
God did, and He told us about it too. I even quoted His words to you. Your relativism and dismissal of it doesn’t change what is written.
we are not electing a “Pope” nor a bishop or even a pastor, but a president - a non-religious office. We must elect someone who will be best able to lead
I second your sentiment.
What do I think? I believe that Romney’s religious beliefs are far, far less threatening to the peaceful progress of America and to advancing the purposes of constitutional self-government than are the convoluted underlying ideologies of Barack Obama, an amalgam of Black Liberation Theology, Islam and State Socialism.
“Not only that but we should remember that we are not electing a “Pope” nor a bishop or even a pastor, but a president - a non-religious office.”
For the secularist, you may be right. But what about the Christian? Our allegiance is first and foremost to Christ and the dictates of Scripture, not ourselves. Did you know that Romans 13 Paul identifies civil rulers as ministers of God, just as our ecclesiastical ministers are ministers of God. Since Paul made no distinction, should’t the Christian hold civil ministers to the same standard we hold our religious ministers? Isn’t it possible that’s what the Lord intended for our own protection?
From Matthew Poole’s (English theologian 1624-1679) commentary on the Romans 13 passage:
“That is the end of his office. And for this reason God hath invested in him with His authority. The Scripture applieth the same title to him that preacheth the Word, and to him that beareth the sword; both are God’s ministers, and there is one common end of their ministry, which is the good and welfare of mankind.“
What a boring and tiresome debate! Obviously Mormons consider themselves Christians of a fashion, but orthodox Christians do not consider Mormon to be orthodox Christians. This is just obvious to anyone with half a brain. What is the purpose of raising this issue over and over again? I think it is silly to not vote for Romney solely because of his religion.
I agree, our duty is to obey God rather than man - when the choice is needed. However, the president of the United States IS a secular position. Romney will have NO power to impose his religious beliefs on Americans like the Romans did during their run at governing a nation. Our Constitution protects us from such a thing - something INTENTIONALLY put in there for such a purpose. Now, do I believe God sets up and removes nations and their leaders? yes, he does. We also know that in Israel's history, God sometimes gave them cruel, sadistic and unbelieving kings as punishment for their own unbelief and disobedience. Modern America is not the Israel of old - God does not rule over the whole world YET.
The passage in Romans 13 says:
We are commanded to obey those set up in authority over us and when Paul wrote this, remember, pagan Rome was the world ruling power - hardly a Christian one. Those set up as rulers have a divine responsibility to execute judgment, to keep the laws, protect the rights of its citizens and to punish those who do wrong. "His power is delegated to him for the defense and encouragement of the good, and the punishment of the wicked; and he has authority to punish capitally, when the law so requires: this the term sword leads us to infer. For he is the minister of God, a revenger - Θεοῦ διακονος εστιν εκδικος, For he is God's vindictive minister, to execute wrath; εις οργην, to inflict punishment upon the transgressors of the law; and this according to the statutes of that law; for God's civil ministers are never allowed to pronounce or inflict punishment according to their own minds or feeling, but according to the express declarations of the law." (Clarke's Commentary on the Bible)
These are secular responsibilities and the law is not set up to be the religious leader, hence the term "minister" should not be taken in the same sense as one who is a minster of the Gospel. These are minsters of justice and law and, by that, I don't think it must necessarily mean that ALL secular leaders MUST be Christians. Is it an ideal? SURE! But, as long as we live in this fallen world filled with fallible people, we will never know a true king who rules in the hearts of men. But, one day, we will. When that time comes, there will be no need for laws, because the law of God will be written on our hearts and we will be ruled by Jesus Christ, the King of kings and the Lord of lords. Until then, we should use the rights we have in this country to elect those who best represent our values and who exhibit strong leadership skills, lead good and moral lives and who will execute the laws of the land in a fair and just way. Thank God we HAVE that right and can also boot out those who fail to live up to those ideals. The Apostle Paul was not so fortunate, and he ended up being executed for his faith - something I genuinely fear Obama would be delighted to institute given the chance. With this election, we don't have the luxury of waiting for the perfect man/woman. We have to do what is best for our country with what we have and leave it in God's hands.
You make an excellent point. I’ve known some Mormon friends, and while we don’t agree on theology, they, for the most part, showed me better fruits than some Christians. Sad, isn’t it?
I’ll vote for a Mormon over a Black Liberation Theologist any day. Not because of the word, “Black,” but because they are a Marxist organization.
Yeah, your right, let’s just stick with the Muslim Communist instead. /S
He is not. He is a polytheist.
Barack Hussein Soetoro 0dinga Dunham Whatever 0bama is a mohammedan and a racist.
Oh joy!
I have not given up and I am still praying for a miracle candidate for America - nothing is beyond Him.
Is Mormonism a Christian Denomination?
http://catholiclane.com/is-mormonism-a-christian-denomination
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