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“Well Actually, He’s Not Talking to You.” Answering One Critique...New Translation [Catholic Caucus]
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | November 28, 2011 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 11/29/2011 4:01:37 PM PST by Salvation

I, like you, have read with interest the reactions of many to the new translation, after its first week of use. Most of the remarks I have read are quite positive. A smaller, though not insignificant number, are negative, some strikingly so. No need to summarize all the remarks here. I am personally a big fan of the new translation and have carefully and joyfully prepared my congregation for it. Our first Sunday went off without a hitch.

There is one strain of negative reaction I would like to address however, since it goes to the heart of a common misunderstanding of the Liturgy. The negative reaction basically stated is:

I can’t easily understand what Father is saying in those long, run-on sentences. It doesn’t make sense to me and I get lost in all the words.

It is a true fact that the new translation preserves more authentically the sentence structure of the Latin original which, like older English, makes greater use of subordinate clauses. For example, consider the prayer from the first Monday of Advent with subordinate clauses indented,

Keep us alert,
we pray, O Lord our God,
as we await the advent of Christ your Son,
so that,
when he comes and knocks,
he may find us watchful in prayer and exultant in his praise
.

This manner of speaking is more formal and ancient.

The just abrogated translation of 1970 turned the rich sentence structure of the Latin prayers into a series of declarative statements:

Lord our God,
help us to prepare for the coming of Christ your Son.
May he find us waiting,
eager in joyful prayer.

Not only is the language less elaborate and more informal, it also omits the humbly beseeching quality of the Latin, and wholly omits the Scriptural allusion of Jesus standing at the door and knocking (cf Rev 3:20)

Now, if the priest who recites or sings the prayer is careful with the commas, and alters his tone of voice properly, the new translation is quite intelligible, and also quite beautiful. My own mind lit up as I recited the new prayer above, this morning.

That said, it may still be harder for some in the pew to attend the words of the priest, even if it is well spoken, since the use of sentences with subordinate clauses requires the listener to hold one thought, while a subordinate thought is articulated, and then the speaker branches back to the main thought.

So lets grant that it is a little harder.

But here we come to an important insight that, though it is not politically correct, is still true: The priest is not talking to you. He is not directing the prayer to you, and the first purpose of the prayer is not that you understand it perfectly. The prayer is directed to God, (most often, to God the Father). The priest is speaking to God, and is doing so on your behalf, and that of the whole Church. And God is wholly able to understand the prayer, no matter how complicated its structure.

Too often in modern times we have very anthropocentric (man-centered) notions of the Sacred Liturgy. With the return to the vernacular, and mass celebrated toward the people, (neither intrinsically wrong), there is often the wrongful conclusion that the Liturgy is about us, the gathered assembly. Surely there are aspects celebrated on our behalf and for our benefit, especially the Liturgy of the Word and the reception of Holy Communion, but the prayers of the Sacred Liturgy are addressed to and focused on God.

When we understand God as the addressee, the notion of “formalism” in the texts we use makes more sense. One may reasonably argue that, in private prayer, simple and personal words from the heart are most appropriate. But in the Sacred Liturgy, which is both communal and where the words are carefully chosen in accord with ancient practice, nobility and a stately seriousness are important and instinctive. It is God to whom we speak, and our language down through the centuries, in the liturgical context, has been courtly, rich and marked with a sobriety and elevated quality. While this notion was largely set aside in 1970, it has been recovered now.

If the text is less immediately understandable (it need not be) to the human listeners, it must be recalled that we are not the first or intended audience, God is.

Surely intelligibility to the average “pew sitter” is not wholly unimportant, for the Liturgy has a critical teaching role (lex orandi, lex credendi). Further, if the faithful are to join their prayers to that of the celebrant, some degree of intelligibility is helpful. But, frankly, it is not essential. Otherwise the faithful could not validly attend Mass in foreign lands, and the Mass could not be offered in Latin. Likewise young children would be excluded, since many of even the simplest words mean little to them. Full participation in the liturgy is deeper than mere auditory comprehension.

So the central point here is that God is the one to whom our liturgical prayers are directed. This is often forgotten today, and the complaint that the new prayers are “harder to understand” (they are not intrinsically so) belies a premise that “my personal understanding” is the central point. It is not.

I can hear a thousand “yes, but” s coming in the combox. And many of these will be quite valid. Distinctions are important, as is balance.

Intelligibility, while not the most important thing, IS important. And hence, we priests who celebrate the Mass using the new texts, need to work carefully to master the texts so that what we say is not lost in an ungraceful and stumbling proclamation. God and God’s people deserve our best effort.



TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; Prayer; Worship
KEYWORDS: advent; catholic; msgrcharlespope; romanmissal
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To: ODC-GIRL; Salvation
I liked them too, but we had a lot of mistakes in our Masses too. I heard a lot of "AND ALSO WITH YOU"'s all around me. (And in the interest of honesty, I must confess that "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa" for that same old response once or twice.)

(But I think even Father Mitch on EWTN Daily Mass today forgot to say I have "greatly" sinned"...)    :)

We all need lots of practice...
21 posted on 11/29/2011 7:12:56 PM PST by Heart-Rest (The church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. (1 Timothy 3:15))
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To: Heart-Rest

Agree, in a month we should have it down and not need the cue cards, oh, wait....................what about the C Catholics or the E Catholics?

Oh, dear, are they going to be lost at Christmas and Easter.

OK, though, in my book, because I think they will probably like the translations too.

But it a chuckle to think about it.


22 posted on 11/29/2011 7:26:59 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

They’ll think they accidently turned into the wrong church, especially if they go to a Midnight Mass after raising a jolly toast or two of Christmas cheer!


23 posted on 11/29/2011 7:41:36 PM PST by Heart-Rest (The church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. (1 Timothy 3:15))
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To: campaignPete R-CT
Can't talk, Pete! Am receiving a super secret transmission from the Vatican on our super evil plans to overthrow the US government!!

You know us Papists - its just what we do !

24 posted on 11/29/2011 8:30:30 PM PST by warsaw44
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To: Salvation
Intelligibility, while not the most important thing, IS important. And hence, we priests who celebrate the Mass using the new texts, need to work carefully to master the texts so that what we say is not lost in an ungraceful and stumbling proclamation. God and God’s people deserve our best effort.

It occurred to me last Sunday that the priest will have to pay close attention to the prayers of the Mass while he, and the congregation are learning the new translation. I think some priests had gotten to a point where their presentation of the prayers was very pedestrian, without any real interest, because the language wasn't inspirational.

25 posted on 11/29/2011 8:55:26 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: warsaw44

I know you are joking because whenever there is a secret transmission, it goes first to the K of C headquarters here in New Haven, CT. And I hear about it before the freepers do.

And there ain’t been no transmissions this week. I just checked.


26 posted on 11/29/2011 9:31:10 PM PST by campaignPete R-CT (I will go back to New Hampshire to campaign.)
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To: Craftmore

God forbid that you THINK you understand what it is you are praying, and do NOT. Take for instance, the word “consubstantial.” Not your everyday word, I grant you, but word important to understand. The English form of the Latin consubstantius which is the Latin form of the Greek Word homoousious. A term COINED by the Council of Nicaea in 325, and to what end? To stand in place of the Arian word Homoiousius. And why? Because the Arians denied that Jesus was God. The alternative offered by the Council Fathers, criticised by the Arians because it is not biblical, says he was. So by pronouncing that words you are saying UNEQUIVOCALLY that Jesus is God, the second person of the Holy Trinity.


27 posted on 11/29/2011 11:50:42 PM PST by RobbyS (Viva Christus Rex.)
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To: Salvation

I think a lot of people are just resistant to change, period, not that they have any opinion on whether these particular changes make the situation better or worse. Asked for comment, they think pretending to be too dumb to understand sounds humble and democratic, plus they might have heard or read that some of the Bishops have offered that as a legitimate position.

However, I think most people will very quickly stop noticing anything different, and to the extent that they pay attention to the prayers other than the congregation’s participation, they will find they understand them just as well as they did previous versions.


28 posted on 11/30/2011 6:09:56 AM PST by Tax-chick (Thomas Sowell. Accept no substitutes!)
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To: Mad Dawg; Craftmore
Don't get angry at Craftmore.

He had to take a remedial English course when his own congregation switched from The Message to the NIV.

He's still upset (that means "mad" or "not happy") at Lincoln for writing that complicated, hifalutin' Gettysburg Address. And don't even get him started on that showoff James Madison and his hoity-toity Constitution.

29 posted on 11/30/2011 10:41:13 AM PST by wideawake
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To: campaignPete R-CT

“Maybe I just don’t have a mind for words and stuff. And the rest of it.”

Okay, so your bent is not toward the linguistic. Still, this is not high-level stuff.


30 posted on 11/30/2011 8:11:12 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: dsc

I think I was just kidding. Sort of.

I usually read along on the English right page of the missal as we’re prayin’ the Latin. But, yep, the 3 years of HS French is good education for understanding the issues of Latin to English translation.


31 posted on 11/30/2011 8:48:17 PM PST by campaignPete R-CT (I will go back to New Hampshire to campaign.)
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To: campaignPete R-CT
The further you get away from the original word, the less easy it is to understand its meaning. In chosing the phrase" one being with the Father," the old translation goes one step further. That's because consubstantial is a technical term. Technical terms are used when ordinary language does not capture the full meaning.
32 posted on 11/30/2011 11:24:21 PM PST by RobbyS (Viva Christus Rex.)
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To: campaignPete R-CT

“But, yep, the 3 years of HS French is good education for understanding the issues of Latin to English translation.”

Yeah, there are problems I never imagined until I became fluent in a second language.


33 posted on 12/01/2011 10:35:14 AM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: wideawake

Im always happy and comforted to see all the good loving catholic answers.That shows me the level of thier loving forgiving hearts.Truly the Lord is present in thier lives.Forgive me for pointing out the entire purpose of the article was that people didnt understand,and that the snide response was,,,We really dont care if you dont understand,,we werent talking to YOU anyway,,,.
Yes,,God forbid we enderstand what it is we are saying to Him.


34 posted on 12/10/2011 10:02:16 AM PST by Craftmore
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