Posted on 05/28/2011 10:55:47 AM PDT by Bed_Zeppelin
Bible prophecy may have a bad name in the light of Harold Camping's misguided date-setting, but the biggest sign of the end may have been overlooked in all the rapture hysteria of last weekend.
Once again, we've seen the U.S. hit with a series of deadly superstorms following Barack Obama's pledge to return Israel to pre-1967 borders.
Just days after Obama insisted Israel must give up lands it won through military victory with its enemies, some 200 people were killed by a tornado in Joplin, Mo.
There's a pattern here.
We saw it in Katrina, when George Bush forced Israel's withdrawal from Gaza. In fact, as everyone from Israeli rabbis to U.S. senators have noted, it seems to happen every single time the U.S. pressures Israel to divide the land.
The phenomenon was best documented by Bill Koenig, author of "Eye to Eye: Facing the Consequences of Dividing Israel."
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
Excuse me!
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Am greatly humbled by your answer.
I just ache for folks. I just . . .
I know from VERY painful, VERY STUPID sinful experience how
EXCRUCIATING
“If only I’d . . .
—listened . . .
—woke up sooner . . .
—done differently . . .
—paid better attention to what I felt in my spirit . . .
I know that GREAT SUFFERING must needs come. Scripture is clear. The rough outline of the script is clear. And it’s being played out exactly so more and more brazenly; more and more fully;
My wife and I’s housemate once noted to my wife that I was the sort of person—if I thought it would help someone overcome their problems, I’d build a swimming pool so I could teach them under-water basket weaving just to help them get better. I couldn’t deny it.
It’s NOT about being right. I’d MUCH rather be wrong about such things.
I think I ache for the children the most.
And for people who have been mangled by abusive homes and just generally don’t have much of a clue about which end is up.
I know Alamo-Girl has persistently exhorted me
!MARANATHA!
PRAISE THE LORD FOR THE RETURN OF THE KING!
LOOK UP! OUR REDEMPTION DRAWS NIGH! REJOICE!
And, to a degree, I do. I’m certainly sick to wall of all the hurtful suffering this sin soaked world executes on mortals and they on each other.
And, I know that running around hitting folks on their heads with Bibles just doesn’t help.
And I know that willful blindness is rarely to never overcome by Damascus road experiences.
I just grieve for my precious Country—the USA.
I just grieve for so many millions utterly blithely clueless.
It’s like 5-6 year old little girls playing jacks in the middle of an 8 lane intersection. 4 semi-s are headed from opposite directions for the intersection breaking all speed limits. On the other 4 lanes, 4 army low-boys hauling 4 D-9 cats are heading for the intersection breaking all speed limits.
And on the sidewalks many people are going to and fro chatting, laughing, patting one another on their backs.
Some look at the vehicles headed for the intersection—point, shake their heads, laugh and walk on down the street.
One or two old ladies who are inching their ways forward with walkers try yelling at the little girls but they are a block away and their voices are a faint whisper.
Mostly, no one really cares. No one really lets the situation register. No one races out into the intersection to scoop the girls up to safety.
I know rending my clothes and running down the road screaming from 3 blocks away will do no good.
It just grieves me. It REALLY GRIEVES me.
I love everyone. I particularly love FREEPERS.
And it REALLY GRIEVES me.
Sigh.
Quit so. Quite so.
No. I haven’t forgotten.
AND, I KNOW MOST INTENSELY THE PRICELESSNESS OF HOPE.
But grasping at straws is not hope—certainly not grounded, effective, true hope in anything real.
It has always been true in all eras that
GOD ALONE IS HOPE.
Yet mankind has had the seductive luxury, the illusion, the delusion . . . that other sources would do quite nicely, thank you very much.
That science would fix things.
That government would fix things.
That even the church would fix things.
That unions would fix things (right—down the tubes!).
That industry would fix things.
That marching and waving placards would fix things.
That education would fix things (and I’m a life long educator).
That positive thinking would fix things.
That relatives, as a last resort, might fix things.
That the courts would fix things (FIX things indeed!).
That eating organic and exercising would fix things.
That pills and alcohol etc would fix things.
That Annie and tomorrow would fix things.
That Hollyweed and glamor and success would fix things.
That money and houses and lands would fix things.
That power and status and !!!CONTROL!!! would fix things.
That voting right would fix things.
None of those ever lastingly fix much of anything.
They sure don’t fix hearts.
And without fixed hearts, none of the other FIXES will do much good for very long.
They never have. They never would. They CANNOT.
CHRIST ALONE FIXES THINGS.
GOD ALONE MAKES ALL THINGS NEW—WITHIN HEARTS, WITHIN THE WORLD, WITHIN THE MULTIVERSE.
THE CROSS ALONE; HIS BLOOD ALONE; THE FULCRUM OF ALL ETERNITY AND ALL REALITY.
It has always been so.
It is brazenly blatantly, vividly so in this climax of an era.
And people are still getting excited running around exalting over their grasping handfuls of chaff they proudly show one another.
And others know none of the above work—but they are stubbornly determined to not go to GOD FOR HELP, LIFE, HOPE,
REGARDLESS.
And it GRIEVES ME to the core.
Laz, I forgot to ping you to #82 above.
I suspect the problem is rooted in the personal epistemology of individual Freepers – which is to say: what they know to be true, how they know it and how certain they are that they actually know it.
For instance, I trust the words of God above all other sources of knowledge including my own sensory perception and reasoning and the counsel of men. Indeed, I hold the words of men – whether authority, journalist, scientist, religious authority, prophet, friend, family, etc. – to four tests:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. – Matthew 22:29
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. – John 10:3-5
[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. - Romans 8:1
I do not think Freepers trust the mainstream media. If they did, they would not be here.
In doing the Downside Legacy during the Clinton Administration, it became clear that the burden in presenting research to this wide range of epistemology fell squarely on my own shoulders. I had to vet my sources carefully, find the most credible sources available and present material with caveats where appropriate.
There were many conspiracy theories back in those days. And I researched them as best I could.
The Waco incident was a classic and there was enough credible information there to present it all with timelines and sources. The “red flags” were the presence of bioweapon military command in the planning of the assault, the SAS, special forces and the use of tanks.
Another classic was the fortuitous (to the administration) demise of a number of people - Vince Foster, Ron Brown and Jerry Parks to name a few. So it behooved me to keep a list of them all so that the Freepers could arrive at their own conclusions – I never told them what I believed the information to mean, i.e. whether it was just weird coincidence, malicious behavior of men or spirits.
And there was China-gate, globalism, the death of al-Dura, TWA800 and many others that I researched.
But in all of that I could never find credible sources – original sources that would stand up to scrutiny - for the alleged secret societies and conspiracies, e.g. Bilderbergers, Trilateral Commission. So I downplayed everything related to such claims – most especially the alleged quote from Rockefeller. I couldn't source it and didn't want to present a Trojan horse. Bottom line, what better way to discredit the credible conspiracies (reducing the U.S. through globalism, international courts, etc.) than to throw in conspiracies that have no basis in fact?
The New Madrid Fault theory is an example. Scientists and government emergency authorities have long been aware of the great danger of another major earthquake in the New Madrid Fault. Memphis and St. Louis would be devastated The deaths would be in the thousands and property damage unimaginable. It would dwarf not only Katrina but also the fall of the WTC on 911.
But as far as I can tell, none of the credible scientific studies predict that the tragic consequences would include the Gulf of Mexico reaching up to Great Lakes.
If I were presenting information about New Madrid to the forum, I would very, very, very carefully research, vet and categorize the remarks. If it is a major research organization, I would cite it. If it came from a fringe scientist or group of scientists, I would point that out. If it were a vision, dream or prophecy, I would say so – right up front. And let the correspondent arrive at his own conclusions about it all.
This is all necessary to maintain my own credibility in the debate. Some Freepers are inclined to accept modern day dreams, visions and prophecies while others reject them out-of-hand on principle.
Some Freepers are fed up with mainstream scientists and are more inclined to give an ear to the fringe scientists whereas others are more confident in peer-reviewed studies.
Some Freepers read current events and see Biblical prophecies unfolding whereas others either do not believe those prophecies, understand them differently or believe they've already been fulfilled.
And of course some Freepers love God, believe Him and trust Him - and others, not so much - or not yet.
RUSHING OFF TO CHURCH. More later.
Thanks for the substantive treatment I was desperately hopeing for.
You are, of course, as usual, right again. LOL.
LUB
Westboro Baptist Church, anyone?
I doubt it very much. Westboro Baptist Church is a group of Democrats that exists solely to discredit true believers in Christ.
Nobody in the Westboro Baptist Church takes Scripture seriously and certainly doesn't accept that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob judges those nations that betray Israel and take action to harm Israel.
bttt
Someone else made that comparison HERE
You wrote: “After reading this wise essay, I am left to wonder how God will punish the nation for Obomba’s messing up the toast to the Queen of England? Earthquake in California?”
But based on the history of the false “dooms-day prophets”, their “pronouncements”, “predictions” and “visions” have a tendency to backfire right back on top of them. :) bttt
When you read some of the comments of the dooms-day guru followers on this board, they arrogantly accuse anyone who doesn’t agree with their “intrepretation” of Scripture as “hating God, rejecting “Scripture”, and on his way to hell. One can easily see where they get it from. Read it for yourself. They parrot talk like that almost word for word from guys like this:
Remember In ‘98 when Pat Robertson predicted God would send Hurricane Bonnie to Disney World as punishment for their sins. No hurricane hit Orlando, but one did hit Virginia Beach, Virginia, where Robertson’s ministry has its headquarters
Robertson prayed to God to steer hurricanes away from his company’s Virginia Beach, Virginia headquarters. He credited his prayers for steering the course of Hurricane Gloria in 1985, which caused billions of dollars of destruction in many states along the U.S. east coast. He made a similar claim about another destructive storm, Hurricane Felix, in 1995
Many of Robertson’s views mirror those of fellow evangelical pastor/activist *Jerry Falwell, who made frequent appearances on The 700 Club. He agreed with Falwell when Falwell stated that the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks were caused by “pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays, lesbians, the American Civil Liberties Union and the People For the American Way.”
On the June 8, 1998 edition of his show, Robertson denounced Orlando, Florida and Disney World for allowing a privately sponsored “Gay Days” weekend. Robertson stated that the acceptance of homosexuality could result in hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, terrorist bombings and “possibly a meteor.” The resulting outcry prompted Robertson to return to the topic on June 24, where he quoted the Book of Revelation to support his claims. The first hurricane of the 1998 Atlantic hurricane season, Hurricane Bonnie, actually turned away from Florida and instead damaged the rest of the east coast. The area hardest hit by the hurricane was the Hampton Roads region, which includes Virginia Beach, where the Robertson’s The 700 Club originates. While other hurricanes did hit Florida, none of them hit Disney World
On January 14, 1991, on The 700 Club, Pat Robertson attacked a number of Protestant denominations when he declared: “You say you’re supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don’t have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist.”
On his November 10, 2005 broadcast of The 700 Club, Robertson told citizens of Dover, Pennsylvania that they had rejected God by voting out of office all seven members of the school board who support intelligent design. “I’d like to say to the good citizens of Dover: if there is a disaster in your area, don’t turn to God, you just rejected Him from your city”, Robertson said on his broadcast. “And don’t wonder why he hasn’t helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I’m not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that’s the case, don’t ask for His help because He might not be there.”
On the January 13, 2010 broadcast of The 700 Club, Robertson blamed the Haitians for making a deal with the Devil during their 1791 slave rebellion, resulting in the Haitian Earthquake of January 12, 2010 and other misfortunes.
He told viewers of his Christian Broadcasting Network: “... something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it, they were under the heel of the French, uh, you know, Napoleon the third and whatever, and they got together and swore a pact to the devil, they said, we will serve you, if you get us free from the French, true story. And so the devil said, ‘OK, it’s a deal.’ And they kicked the French out, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free, and ever since they have been cursed by one thing after the other, desperately poor.”
He went on to state: “That island of Hispaniola is one island. It is cut down the middle; on the one side is Haiti on the other is the Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, etc. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have and we need to pray for them a great turning to God and out of this tragedy I’m optimistic something good may come. But right now we are helping the suffering people and the suffering is unimaginable.
The reference to a “pact to the devil” was later said by CBN to be a reference to the Vodou ceremony conducted by Dutty Boukman involving animal sacrifice in Bois Caïman that began the Haitian revolution. Contrary to Robertson’s claims however, this ceremony and the religion of Vodou in general does not involve Satan or devil worship. Robertson mistakenly identified the French government as that of Napoleon III, as Haiti became independent (and the Revolution won) four years before Napoleon III was born. In fact, it was Napoleon Bonaparte (by far, the more famous of the two rulers), who sent a French army to try to recapture Haiti a decade after its revolution. The force was destroyed by yellow fever and the fierce resistance led by Haitian generals.
Veteran Christian radio broadcaster Michael Ireland stated that this Haitian Vodou ceremony has long been erroneously referenced by various self-assoiling Christian sources as the “pact with the devil” or “pact to the devil” that began the Haitian revolution.
In the 1970s and 1980s Robertson was a faith healer, and James Randi devoted a chapter, “A World of Knowledge from Pat Robertson” on Robertson in Randi’s book The Faith Healers. Randi commented that “in 1986, soon after the full importance of the AIDS epidemic began to become evident, Robertson was attempting to cure it” by proclaiming people cured after prayer. Randi commented, “Gerry Straub, a former associate of Pat Robertson and his television producer, pointed out in his book Salvation for Sale the astonishing fact that God seemed to time miracles to conform with standard television format,” and “God would stop speaking to Pat and stop healing exactly in time with the theme music.” Randi explained that “in 1979, it appeared to Robertson’s staff that their boss had been taking lessons from ** Oral Roberts” and “proposed to film the Second Coming!”. The project was eventually publicly dropped, but “budget allocations [CBN] are made for their development.” Martin Gardner also criticized Robertson’s faith healing in Gardner’s work Beyond Reason.
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson_controversies
* Jerry Falwell:
Falwell said that LGBT organizations angered God, thereby in part causing God to let the September 11 attacks and Hurricane Katrina happen. Falwell said that 9/11 represented God’s judgement on America’s sinful behaviour and further stated that the 9/11 attacks were “probably deserved” HERE: http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/80614828.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Sep+14%2C+2001&author=John+F.+Harris&pub=The+Washington+Post&edition=&startpage=C.03&desc=God+Gave+U.S.+%27What+We+Deserve%2C%27+Falwell+Says
On July 31, 2006, Cable News Network’s (CNN) Paula Zahn Now program featured a segment on “whether the crisis in the Middle East is actually a prelude to the end of the world,” “marking the third time in eight days that CNN had devoted airtime to those claiming that the ongoing Mideast violence signaled the coming of the Apocalypse.” In an interview Falwell claimed, “I believe in the premillennial, pre-tribulational coming of Christ for all of his church, and to summarize that, your first poll, do you believe Jesus’ coming the second time will be in the future, I would vote yes with the 59 percent and with Billy Graham and most evangelicals.” Based on this and other statements, Falwell has been identified as a Dispensationalist.
In 1999, Falwell declared the Antichrist would probably arrive within a decade and “Of course he’ll be Jewish.” After accusations of anti-Semitism Falwell apologized and explained that he was simply expressing the theological tenet that the Antichrist and Christ share many attributes.
** Oral Roberts:
In 1977, Roberts claimed to have had a vision from a 900-foot-tall Jesus who told him to build City of Faith Medical and Research Center, and the hospital would be a success.[ In 1980, Roberts said he had a vision which encouraged him to continue the construction of his City of Faith Medical and Research Center in Oklahoma, which opened in 1981. The City of Faith operated for only eight years before closing in late 1989
In January 1987, during a fundraising drive, Roberts announced to a television audience that unless he raised $8 million by that March, God would “call him home.” Some were fearful that he was referring to suicide, given the impassioned pleas and tears that accompanied his statement. He raised $9.1 million. Later that year, he announced that God had raised the dead through Roberts’ ministry.] Some of Roberts’ fundraising letters were written by Gene Ewing, who headed a business writing donation letters for other evangelicals such as Don Stewart and Robert Tilton.
HERE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts
You wrote: “This would be a plausible theory if tornados and such were hitting the White House instead of the Bible Belt.”
Exactly. See:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2726515/posts?page=89#89
Ummmm, Obama’s set the stage for it to get much worse over the next few years. Hopefully Sarah will be able to deal wit the mess...
gettinolder wrote: “I find a lot of correlation between certain political going on’s and natural disasters”
FredZarguna responded: “OK, fine. What correlation do you find between the European countries weather patterns and their positions on Israel? What correlation do you find between Iran’s weather and their supplying rockets to terrorists? What’s the weather like in Syria and South Lebanon lately? When you’ve explained those (non)correlations, maybe you can explain a theological correlation between something our idiot President and his anti-Semite State Department comes up with, and the deaths of 200 innocent people in Missouri. If this is God’s doing, He needs to practice His aim.”
bttt
I appears as if gettinolder gets his “correlation” by watching certain “televangelists” whose god also has a bad aim. :)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2726515/posts?page=89#89
Your whole post is grand, but this sums the whole post up grandly. (;
PRAISE GOD!
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
It’s amazing to me how many naysayers are still straining desperately at gnats and swallowing camels glibly.
Sigh.
Thanks for your humblingly kind words.
PRAISE GOD!
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
I don't think it's easy, if possible to convey to you how much it meant to me to get your substantive reply.
THANKS ENORMOUSLY.
Here's my bit more amplified reply . . .
=============================================
A-G:
I suspect the problem is rooted in the personal epistemology of individual Freepers – which is to say: what they know to be true, how they know it and how certain they are that they actually know it.
ABSOLUTELY, INDEED. NO DOUBT.
For instance, I trust the words of God above all other sources of knowledge including my own sensory perception and reasoning and the counsel of men. Indeed, I hold the words of men – whether authority, journalist, scientist, religious authority, prophet, friend, family, etc. – to four tests:
Actually, that’s very close, if not the same, criteria and filter I use fairly routinely. I suspect you are a more rigorous screener, or filter-er than I am—at least on some issues in some contexts. Perhaps I am in others. Certainly those Scriptures and that set of criteria is a priceless way to deal with reality. It doesn’t prevent bumps in the road nor eve necessarily all crash & burn incidents. It sure minimizes them and yields them to be more redemptive, quicker, imho.
A lot of your correspondents here put their trust in the counsel of men – some to religious authorities and others to scientists or experts. And a lot of your correspondents put their trust in themselves, i.e. sensory perception and reasoning.
I THINK YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AGAIN.
I do not think Freepers trust the mainstream media. If they did, they would not be here.
I used to think that. I no longer think that.
I think there are quite a number of topics and spheres where that’s quite true. However, in these forbidden topic areas, repeatedly, relentlessly for most of 12 years now, I’ve been castigated, ridiculed, thrashed, laughed at, demeaned, and more TO THE DEGREE THAT AND BECAUSE I have not taken the MSM stance on the forbidden topics.
And the FREEPER CORRESPONDENTS have relentlessly in such exchanges spouted the MSM positions on such issues, topics, incidents, events—right down the line—virtually to the letter—carbon copy. And, the harrasssments, castigations etc. have ALSO been right down the line, straight out of the MSM playbook and script on such scores. . . . almost every day of those 11-12 years. I can no longer deny or minimize all that evidence.
In doing the Downside Legacy during the Clinton Administration, it became clear that the burden in presenting research to this wide range of epistemology fell squarely on my own shoulders. I had to vet my sources carefully, find the most credible sources available and present material with caveats where appropriate.
Certainly this is a critical area where we have differed markedly and clearly to my own hurt and significantly to the hurt of my message.
However, given the topic areas I’ve routinely dealt with—I don’t think I had as much leeway or choice as you had even in your tricky subject area.
There was a LOT more material of a LOT better quality provable sources for even the Klintoon horrific stuff than is routinely the case in the forbidden topic areas I’ve dealt with. The conservatives and even GOP to some degree were digging stuff up relentlessly—somewhat by design. Regardless—it afforded you better sources easier to vet and more of such sources.
That’s the NATURE OF the particular topics involved. Logically, it would not be otherwise—could not be otherwise—for extended, long periods of time in decades. I think this issue is greatly minimized. Folks seem to just not comprehend well their overwhelming addiction to avoiding TYPE I ERRORS. Perhaps worse, they do not seem to comprehend well the resulting virtual certainty that they will suffer the pains of potentially very hazardous TYPE II ERRORS.
THAT is still very mystifying to me. What is WITH the absolute brain fade about that issue!? No one ever gives a good response to that question. One would think that the “scientists” types—the obsessive hyper Super Rationalists—would have better and more congruent understanding on such scores—to the degree that they could give a congruent, reasonable set of responses on that issue. Alas, their biases seem to reign and to neutralize reasonable discussion on those points.
And, no one has come up with any viable alternative for finding out and determining truth in such a well hidden, full of disinformation; super complex and super convoluted subject area. OF COURSE the sources are going to be questionable. OF COURSE the sources are going to be difficult, if not impossible to vet—the vast majority of the time.
Nevertheless, as difficult as such things are, many murderers have been rightly convicted on far less quality less vetted information and sources than is now available on these forbidden topics.
Yes, most sources and most documents etc. are STILL questionable enough that the super rationalists will always be able to justify flushing whatever data they find sufficiently uncomfortable. That does NOT EQUAL saying that therefore the data is untrue.
But that’s NOT EQUAL to there being no reasonably verifiable data available.
Actually, at this point, WHEN one looks at the BREADTH AND DEPTH AS WELL AS THE WIDE DIVERSITY of only the better quality sources asserting some of the main points in each of these forbidden subject areas, most sensible people would—IF THE SUBJECTS WERE NOT SO HIGHLY CHARGED AND FIERCELY RIDICULED so successfully in the MSM—most reasonable people would make pretty reasonable conclusions based on the piles of reasonably good quality diverse sourced info—EVEN THOUGH they did not rise to the standard you used with the Clinton Waco and other such stuff.
However, the subject areas are uncomfortable enough for a list of reasons—most people are happy to sing the MSM’s tune and go on whistling by the graveyard. It probably helps millions of people sleep better to sleep in blissful denial. I don’t know what percentage that is true for on FR. Sometimes, it SEEMS like a majority of the mods--sometimes, not.
And, of course, looking at the UFO ping list and the END TIMES ping list—there’s a wide breadth of personality; degree of scientific sophistication etc. who believe very firmly in the realities involved with the UFO stuff as well as the END TIMES RELATED global government stuff. Yet, by some mods and the super hyper rationalists all such individuals are made out to be super stupid, low IQ, clueless, hay-seed, troll idiots—which is simply far from THE TRUTH—as though THE TRUTH were really what was desired vs comfort zones; appearing “normal,” whatever that is; being in step with the ‘conventional wisdom,’ whatever that is—and—honestly—not straying too far from the MSM’s constructions on realities involved with those topics.
I could probably often point to equally high quality sources but the provable vetting was not likely to be near as good—except in rare cases. For example, we have a FREEPER—Dr, Colonel Jesse Marcel Jr MD retired Vet Army Surgeon. I’m pinging him to this msg.
Given his qualifications; given his military service; given his very Conservative Christian (Roman Catholic) values—I can’t think of a MORE qualified source—for FR—unless, perhaps it was Ronald Reagan. However, Ronald Reagan did not handle the pieces of the crashed UFO at Roswell—Dr Colonel, Jesse Marcel Jr did.
Yet, even on FR—his testimony on such scores is just as ridiculed, trashed etc. as anyone else’s. NOT because he’s a poor quality source—MERELY BECAUSE OF BIAS—normalcy bias; MSM propagandized bias—whatever.
There were many conspiracy theories back in those days. And I researched them as best I could.
And, no doubt, you did a much higher quality, high class job of it than I have in these forbidden areas. I’ve been much more of a hay-seed sort of bloke collecting piles of things in the dusty barn of my mental archives. I end up with a gestalt of what’s more likely true vs less likely true. It’s a very coarse sorting criteria that has distilled over the decades consciously and unconsciously.
The Waco incident was a classic and there was enough credible information there to present it all with timelines and sources. The “red flags” were the presence of bioweapon military command in the planning of the assault, the SAS, special forces and the use of tanks.
I believe there are PLENTY of “red flags” available in the forbidden topics I’ve posted on over the years—and even high quality sourced “red flags.” However, typically, the dogpile descends on such sources or examples and is dismissive, derisive—REGARDLESS of the degree of quality of the source—and it gets trashed or shouted down—NOT because it’s a lower quality source—but because of the biases involved and evidently the horrific degree of discomfort on the part of some—with even considering that such things MIGHT be true.
And, this or that example or source can certainly be less than pristine or perfect in 100% of the factors involved. Life’s like that. I doubt even your “red flags” in the Waco case were 100% all 100% pristine and perfect in all respects.
HOWEVER, what was different about that with the FR audience is that IT FIT WITHIN THE FREEPER VALUES to construe Clintons accurately with respect to Waco. For significant chunks of at least the mods and at least significant chunks of the FR membership—that’s simply NOT true—more the opposite is true.
For THOSE folks to even BEGIN to fair-mindedly CONSIDER that there’s truth (as such sources on such forbidden topics indicate)—is just—clearly—ABSOLUTELY INTOLERABLE AT AN INTENSELY EMOTIONAL LEVEL—as well as at an intellectual level—given their pretend tidy little intellectual boxes and a visceral aversion to thinking outside such boxes.
I don’t have a specific set of examples off the top of my head and am not interested in taking time to dig one up. I just know from my extensive experience with the evidence that there’s a significant number of DIFFERENT cases in both the UFO and global government spheres wherein “red flags” of equal alarm, quality and import to the tanks, bioweapon command, SAS involvements in the Waco case are documentable and accepted as proven by knowledgeable professional, even scholarly researchers in the fields..
Yet, the same quality of evidence will NOT ever—certainly not on FR but also not even on ATS (Above Top Secret.com) garner even a respectable fraction of the respect your Waco example garnered.
Is that all 100% attributable to my cavalier, hit and run, very coarse sorting and treatment of the evidence into only 2 basic categories of PROBABLY/likely TRUE, PROBABLY NOT TRUE? I don’t think so. I think the biases involved and particularly the EMOTIONAL and pseudo-intellectual biases involved determine the vast majority of dismissiveness, derisiveness and clinging to the MSM constructions on reality about such matters.
Another classic was the fortuitous (to the administration) demise of a number of people - Vince Foster, Ron Brown and Jerry Parks to name a few. So it behooved me to keep a list of them all so that the Freepers could arrive at their own conclusions – I never told them what I believed the information to mean, i.e. whether it was just weird coincidence, malicious behavior of men or spirits.
THIS ONE IS A REALLLLL TRIP TO ME. That list of facts and terminated individuals is ACTUALLY AND TRULY a relatively ‘minor’ subset of a GREAT NUMBER of similar terminations at the pleasure of the globalist powers that be. The documentation, proofs, types, etc. of deaths are at least as MANY, IF NOT THE MAJORITY--at least as good as those you uncovered in the Clinton cases. And, such have been documented ad nauseum by quality scholarly researchers—some going back decades. We’re talking hundreds of cases. IIRC, I think there’s over 135 bioengineering biological warfare specialists PhD’s/MD’s ALONE who have been terminated mysteriously, internationally.
Now certainly, it’s easy to accurately say that A-G’s reputation is a thousand times well earned better than Quix’s in terms of such research and the presentation of such research. Yet, that’s more than a little hyperbole. The sources and evidence I’ve at least SOMETIMES presented, is NOT totally anything near as off the wall as many make it out to be. Again, I think it’s the emotional and tidy boxed intellectual aversion to such possibilities that send even many FREEPERS running screaming for the MSM’s construction on such realities.
Yet, there’s NO DISCERNABLE DIFFERENCE TO THE RESPONSES I trigger between the quality sources and evidence vs the lower quality. That’s very telling, to me. The blackwashing is as though it’s all horsefeathers—grossly lacking in quality to the max. And that’s just NOT true by a long shot.
And there was China-gate, globalism, the death of al-Dura, TWA800 and many others that I researched.
But in all of that I could never find credible sources – original sources that would stand up to scrutiny - for the alleged secret societies and conspiracies, e.g. Bilderbergers, Trilateral Commission. So I downplayed everything related to such claims – most especially the alleged quote from Rockefeller. I couldn't source it and didn't want to present a Trojan horse. Bottom line, what better way to discredit the credible conspiracies (reducing the U.S. through globalism, international courts, etc.) than to throw in conspiracies that have no basis in fact?
Would you agree or not agree that THERE’S A POTENTIALLY HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN “conspiracies that have no basis in fact” and “conspiracies that have no basis in CLEARLY IRON-CLAD PROVABLE facts???
We are talking about a subject area where THE VERY NATURE OF THE TOPIC PRECLUDES MUCH EASY opportunity to be dealing with “CLEARLY IRON-CLAD PROVABLE FACES!”
When the very subjects being investigated have relatively unlimited resources to spread widely about half-truths; well-crafted disinformation etc. to muddy the waters; shred credibility on very true and real events etc.—WHAT ELSE WOULD ONE EXPECT?
So, I have a question for you. Let’s say there were 10 of such other conspiracies which you, in the end, decided to leave out because the level of proof was just not available. How many out of that 10 WERE YOU PERSONALLY convinced were highly likely to be true or mostly true?
The New Madrid Fault theory is an example. Scientists and government emergency authorities have long been aware of the great danger of another major earthquake in the New Madrid Fault. Memphis and St. Louis would be devastated The deaths would be in the thousands and property damage unimaginable. It would dwarf not only Katrina but also the fall of the WTC on 911.
But as far as I can tell, none of the credible scientific studies predict that the tragic consequences would include the Gulf of Mexico reaching up to Great Lakes.
That should not be surprising in the least—any more than it should be surprising that the global/shadow government has access to exotic technologies which afford it options and opportunities that almost make science fiction tame by comparison.
At some point, when one is examining such a huge pile of puzzle pieces . . . one has to deal with BOTH the GREEK/pseudo-scientific method to discover truth vs the HEBREW phenomenological method to discover truth. The super hyper rationalist naysayers virtually 100% cling obsessively to the GREEK method and PRETEND valiantly and derisively that there IS NO OTHER way to reliably discover any kind of truth on any topic in any context, ever, priod.
THAT’S NONSENSE. They lose the weight of a HUGE amount of subtle information that may be priceless. If our intelligence folks had tossed out all the subtle puzzle pieces in WWII as not worth considering fairly, we might well have lost the war.
If I were presenting information about New Madrid to the forum, I would very, very, very carefully research, vet and categorize the remarks. If it is a major research organization, I would cite it. If it came from a fringe scientist or group of scientists, I would point that out. If it were a vision, dream or prophecy, I would say so – right up front. And let the correspondent arrive at his own conclusions about it all.
I THINK THAT’S A VERY GOOD EXHORTATION. And, I’ll likely follow it at least much of the time, on my blog.
I think my poor ASSUMPTION has been that most readers are ABLE*AND* WILLING to process fair-mindedly subtle data, nuance, AND a wide range of qualities of data . . . as productively as some of the rest of us can. And, clearly, that’s a dumb assumption.
This is all necessary to maintain my own credibility in the debate. Some Freepers are inclined to accept modern day dreams, visions and prophecies while others reject them out-of-hand on principle.
I THINK THIS IS ANOTHER VERY GOOD POINT. My reputation and credibility have been shredded so many ways to Sunday so many times over the decades that I’ve come to treat it as inconsequential.
AND, to be honest, frankly, THOSE SERIOUSLY INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH HAVE DEMONSTRATED a capacity, WILLINGNESS and interest in ferreting out the truth regardless of the credibility issues AND REGARDLESS OF THE MIXTURE OF LOW TO HIGH QUALITY sources and evidence.
CLEARLY, there are major portions of FR for whom that is *NOT* true.
Some Freepers are fed up with mainstream scientists and are more inclined to give an ear to the fringe scientists whereas others are more confident in peer-reviewed studies.
QUITE SO. Though I still fail to see why one group has SUCH AN OBVIOUS compulsion to cling sooooo tenaciously—regardless of the quality of evidence, sources etc--TO THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA’S CONSTRUCTION ON SUCH REALITIES . . . VIRTUALLY REGARDLESS OF THE CONTEXT, SEQUENCES, TIMELINES, VETTED SOURCES ETC.
Some Freepers read current events and see Biblical prophecies unfolding whereas others either do not believe those prophecies, understand them differently or believe they've already been fulfilled.
INDEED. More stuff I just shake my head over! LOL.
And of course some Freepers love God, believe Him and trust Him - and others, not so much - or not yet.
INDEED. And, LOL, SOMETIMES, that one factor seems to decide a lot.
THANKS SO ENORMOUSLY FOR ALLOWING ME YOUR HELP IN SORTING MY THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS THROUGH regarding such things—and in helping me to put some realistic perspective on so much that’s been hugely mystifying and exasperating about such things on FR. I would, of course, greatly appreciate any thoughtful responses you have to the above.
I realize it’s all a moot issue on FR. Nevertheless, your kind sounding board service to me about such things is a GREAT help in me letting it go more fully and cleanly vis a vis FR.
It’s really not the priority for me to be right per se—certainly not in a psycho-dynamic sense.
THE PRIORITY IS TO PREVENT UNNECESSARY SUFFERING on the part of FREEPERS I LOVE AND CARE ABOUT A GREAT DEAL.
The grieving over that inevitability is abidingly with me. Many people who know me face to face have likened me to Jeremiah in such regards. I certainly can identify with him a lot.
The NATURE of the topics is such and the RUSH of history toward Armageddon is such—it is inevitable that great percentages of FR will not wake up and realize the truths involved until it is far too late for them to prepare even their hearts and minds to deal with such realities. THAT GRIEVES ME, a LOT.
I laughed at the naysayer who said that if he was abducted by a UFO, he’d ask them to let him out at Quix’s house to apologize. I don’t need any apologies—certainly not per se. I just need folks to avoid as much unnecessary suffering as possible.
Yet, I realize I cannot save, nor fix, nor ‘mother,’ nor ‘father,’ nor even successfully BEFRIEND the whole world—even merely the whole FR world. And I can accept that—eventually—at the end of each day. LOL.
THANKS TONS, TOO, for helping me sort out my own thoughts and feelings more clearly and more productively about all the above.
I seriously doubt I’m going to turn into even half the quality researcher and presenter that A-G naturally is.
I can only be me.
Thankfully, God has those who He insures benefit from HIS amplifying the me that HE has created, trained, coached, led to this point in my life. I trust that HE WILL REVEAL IN ETERNITY that there’s been much more fruit from that—WHICH HE HAS WROUGHT than I’d dared hope for.
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD. THANKS, DEAR SISTER IN CHRIST FOR YOUR HELPING ME GROW SO MANY TIMES IN SO MANY QUALITY WAYS. Thanks immeasurably for your caring and prayers.
There's a pattern here.
Sure. That's why the tornado chased Obama down Pennsylvania Avenue instead of crushing a random town in the Midwest.
Oh, wait....
"I do not think Freepers trust the mainstream media. If they did, they would not be here."
True,assuming everything that hits the ears is vetted.I've long thought that "faith cometh by hearing" applies to everybody,as though it's part of being human.ie:What is heard the most,is trusted the most.Not just by believers,but by everybody.
Are any of us totally immune to what we hear?
As I've said before,I read the Bible as an atheist and came to believe through looking at the world through the lens of the Word.At least as much as my mind could comprehend.I've come to very much agree with bro' Quix on many things,not least of all his couched desperation concerning those around him.I suppose that could simply mean that we're both nuts.I don't think I am,but the thought does cross my mind now and then.8-)
Grace and peace to you both.
Can you define these, please?
Is this St. Paul's "The Jews ask for a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom, [but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to the Jews and folly to the Greeks, but for us who believe the power of God and the wisdom of God]" ...?
Cheers!
Great reply, thanks!
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