Posted on 03/05/2011 5:29:44 AM PST by WPaCon
Lately, there seems to be a lot of conflict on the religion forum. Much of this has been between Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox. To show that we are all united as Christians and to reduce animosity, I hope we can all agree to one of 4 following statements:
1) I am Catholic. I love Orthodox and Protestant Christians. I consider Orthodox Christians and Protestants to definitely be Christian. All Christians need to work together to defeat our common enemies-- specifically Islam, liberal postmodernism, and totalitarian communism.
2) I am Protestant. I love Orthodox and Catholic Christians. I consider Orthodox Christians and Catholics to definitely be Christian. All Christians need to work together to defeat our common enemies-- specifically Islam, liberal postmodernism, and totalitarian communism.
3) I am an Orthodox Christian. I love Catholic and Protestant Christians. I consider Catholics and Protestants to definitely be Christian. All Christians need to work together to defeat our common enemies-- specifically Islam, liberal postmodernism, and totalitarian communism.
4) I am a non-believer. I love Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant Christians. I consider Orthodox Christians, Catholics, and Protestants to definitely be Christian. All Christians need to work together to defeat our common enemies-- specifically Islam, liberal postmodernism, and totalitarian communism.
I feel confident that most freepers agree to at least one of these statements, even if they do not say so.
If you agree with any of these statements, please feel free to say so.
Thanks!
I don’t know whether to read an almost 200 post thread or not. First thought is that the statements seem to make faith a tool of accomplishing things other that the soul’s salvation.
Saint Seraphim of Sarov said. “Acquire the Holy Spirit and thousands will find their salvation.”
This seems a more worthy goal than defeating this, that or the other thing.
Has he written anything that is untrue?
Dr,
you are so very right. I’m a relative newb here, having lurked for about a year before signing up. Great thread, WPaCon. I’m in the first sentence. I’m a devout Catholic, and love Orthodox and Protestant Christians, as well as considering them Christians. Like the good doctor, this is my last post before a Lenten fast. I pray that all of you have a holy and blessed Easter, and I will pray for all of you during this Lent. Bless you all.
I will be away from all but devotional threads in RF but will keep abreast of other news.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
A thoughtful comment.
Thx.
Amen. That prayer is also one of protection against malevelont spiritual forces.
A problem is that i think more than one RC apologist (and few of the more active ones on either side have weighed in here yet) here sees Protestants as lost unless they become Catholic before they die, even a nominal RC who becomes a conservative evangelical, as Lumen Gentum as well as Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus is open to interpretation.
And while i am glad that on social/moral issues we as evangelical Protestants (who are not worthy to "properly be called churches") have some unity, RC's overall do not share this as strongly, while i believe the ones who see Protestants as lost if not in submission to Rome have the historical weight*, for what its worth (which is only what the Infallible Magisterium gives it).
And as long as Rome insists on the self-promotion of herself as supreme in power and jurisdiction, based upon her formulaic infallibility, she will be need to be reproved, and cannot complain about being targeted. And anyone who claims that one must come to God as one damned for his works and destitute of any moral merit, whereby he may escape his just punishment in Hell fire and be made accepted in the Beloved, with works following, and that the Scriptures are the only objective, transcendent source that is affirmed to be wholly inspired of God, and thus alone is the supreme rule of faith, then they also will be opposed by the world and by those who require implicit assent to faith to an office of men.
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*We furthermore forbid any lay person to engage in dispute, either private or public, concerning the Catholic Faith. Whosoever shall act contrary to this decree, let him be bound in the fetters of excommunication. — Pope Alexander IV (1254-1261) in “Sextus Decretalium”, Lib. V, c. ii: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/archive/index.php/t-51631.html * Do not converse with heretics even for the sake of defending the faith, for fear lest their words instil their poison in your mind. Bl. Isaias Boner of Krakow (Polish, Augustinian priest, theologian, professor of Scripture, d. 1471) Thus, the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith by corrupting it, such as heretics, or by renouncing it, such as apostates. “the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith they once received, either by corrupting the faith, as heretics, or by entirely renouncing the faith, as apostates, because the Church pronounces sentence of excommunication on both.” St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica Is it permitted for Christians to be present at, or to take part in, conventions, gatherings, meetings, or societies of non-Catholics which aim to associate together under a single agreement everyone who, in any way, lays claim to the name of Christian? In the negative! - (Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos) How does a Catholic sin against faith? A Catholic sins against Faith by Apostasy, heresy, indifferentism and by taking part in non-Catholic worship." (Catechism of the Council of Trent, and the Baltimore Catechism) "It is not permitted at all for the faithful to assist in any active manner at or to have any part in the worship of non-Catholics." 1917 Code of Canon Law [Canon 1258] "If any ecclesiastic or layman shall go into the synagogue of the Jews or to the meeting houses of the heretics to join in prayer with them, let them be deposed and deprived of communion. If any Bishops or Priest or Deacon shall join in prayer with heretics, let him be suspended from Communion" - III Council of Constantinople. "One must neither pray nor sing psalms with heretics, and whoever shall communicate with those who are cut off from the communion of the Church, whether clergy or layman: let him be excommunicated". (Council of Carthage) "No one shall pray in common with heretics and schismatics" - Council of Laodicea. Rome, Italy, Feb 19, 2010 / 02:03 pm (CNA).- The president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, Cardinal Walter Kasper, announced this week that Pope Benedict XVI will visit the Evangelical Lutheran Church located in Rome on March 14 for an ecumenical celebration. Pope Leo XIII, in Sapientiae Christianae: "But the supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires, together with a perfect accord in the one faith, complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself. This obedience should, however, be perfect...(and) must consequently be accepted without wavering.... Pope Leo XIII, in Sapientiae Christianae (On Christians As Citizens), Encyclical promulgated on January 10, 1890, #22-24. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13sapie.htm Council of Constance, Condemnation of Errors, against Wycliffe [Sentence condemning various articles of John Wyclif]: 8. If a pope is foreknown as damned and is evil, and is therefore a limb of the devil, he does not have authority over the faithful given to him by anyone, except perhaps by the emperor. [Condemned articles of J. Hus]: 20. If the pope is wicked, and especially if he is foreknown to damnation, then he is a devil like Judas the apostle, a thief and a son of perdition and is not the head of the holy church militant since he is not even a member of it. Council of Constance, Condemnation of Errors, against Wycliffe http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Councils/ecum16.htm Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino 1441): "Whoever, therefore, have adverse and contrary opinions the Church disapproves and anathematizes and declares to be foreign to the Christian body which is the Church." Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino: "The sacrosanct Roman Church...firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation... and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino, Bull promulgated on February 4, 1441 (Florentine style), proclaimed "ex cathedra" (infallible). http://www.catholicism.org/pages/florence.htm Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Singulari Quidem March 17, 1856): “There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church. (On the Unity of the Catholic Church) http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9singul.htm Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff. Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Bull promulgated on November 18, 1302. http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html Fifth Lateran Council: Moreover, since subjection to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for all Christ's faithful, as we are taught by the testimony of both sacred scripture and the holy fathers, and as is declared by the constitution of pope Boniface VIII of happy memory, also our predecessor, which begins Unam sanctam, we therefore...renew and give our approval to that constitution... Fifth Lateran CouncilSession 11, 19 December 1516, http://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum18.htm Pope Pius XII, Ad Apostolorum Principis: "We teach,...We declare that the Roman Church by the Providence of God holds the primacy of ordinary power over all others, and that this power of jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff, which is truly episcopal, is immediate. Toward it, the pastors and the faithful of whatever rite and dignity, both individually and collectively, are bound by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, not only in matters which pertain to faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church spread throughout the whole world, in such a way that once the unity of communion and the profession of the same Faith has been preserved with the Roman Pontiff, there is one flock of the Church of Christ under one supreme shepherd. This is the teaching of the Catholic truth from which no one can depart without loss of faith and salvation." Pope Pius XII, Ad Apostolorum Principis (On Communism And The Church In China), Encyclical Promulgated on June 29, 1958, #46. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_29061958_ad-apostolorum-principis_en.html Pope Pius X, Iucunda Sane: "...We cannot but remind all, great and small, as Pope St. Gregory did, of the absolute necessity of having recourse to this Church in order to have eternal salvation, to follow the right road of reason, to feed on the truth, to obtain peace and even happiness in this life." Pope Pius X, Iucunda Sane (On Pope Gregory the Great), Encyclical promulgated on March 12, 1904, #9. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_x/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_12031904_iucunda-sane_en.html Pope Boniface I, Epistle Ad Thessalon: "Whosoever has cut himself off from the Church of Rome has become an alien to Christianity." Pope Boniface I, Epistle Ad Thessalon, LAF, vol IX:57; FOC, p 324 (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4: "The Book of Christians", Chapter 2: "Those Who Reject Christ's Church Are Anti-Christian"). http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/6480/catholics/apostolic4chp2.html Pope Pius IX, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore: Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff.. Pope Pius IX, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, #8 http://www.ewtn.com/library/encyc/p9quanto.htm Pope Pius IX, Amantissimus: “There are other, almost countless, proofs drawn from the most trustworthy witnesses which clearly and openly testify with great faith, exactitude, respect and obedience that all who want to belong to the true and only Church of Christ must honor and obey this Apostolic See and Roman Pontiff." Pope Pius IX, Amantissimus (On The Care Of The Churches), Encyclical promulgated on April 8, 1862, # 3. http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P9AMANT2.HTM Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 9): The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium. Satis Cognitum (# 9): June 29, 1896: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_29061896_satis-cognitum_en.html Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos: "No one is found in the one Church of Christ, and no one perseveres in it, unless he acknowledges and accepts obediently the supreme authority of St. Peter and his legitimate successors." Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, PTC:873, http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11MORTA.HTM Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." "If, therefore, the Greeks or others say that they are not committed to Peter and to his successors, they necessarily say that they are not of the sheep of Christ, since the Lord says that there is only one fold and one shepherd (Jn.10:16). Whoever, therefore, resists this authority, resists the command of God Himself. " Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302) http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html Pope Pelagius II, Quod Ad Dilectionem: Those not willing to be at agreement in the Church of God cannot abide with God. For the Church of God is established among those known to preside over the Apostolic Sees, and whoever separates himself from these Sees is manifestly in schism." Pope Pelagius II, Quod Ad Dilectionem," http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_29061896_satis-cognitum_en.html Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis: "They, therefore, walk in the path of dangerous error who believe that they can accept Christ as the Head of the Church, while not adhering loyally to His Vicar on earth. They have taken away the visible head, broken the visible bonds of unity and left the Mystical Body of the Redeemer so obscured and so maimed, that those who are seeking the haven of eternal salvation can neither see it nor find it... Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (On the Mystical Body of Christ), Encyclical promulgated on June 29, 1943, #41-42, 69. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_29061943_mystici-corporis-christi_en.html Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum: St. Augustine denies that anyone who dissents from the Roman faith can be a Catholic. "You are not to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith if you do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held" (Sermo cxx., n. 13). St. Ambrose, "Expl. of Luke: "The Lord severed the Jewish people from His kingdom, and heretics and schismatics are also severed from the kingdom of God and from the Church. Our Lord makes it perfectly clear that every assembly of heretics and schismatics belongs not to God, but to the unclean spirit." St. Ambrose, "Expl. of Luke", ch.7, 91-95; PL 15; SS, vol. II, p. 85, (quoted in The Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4: "The Book of Christians", Chapter 2: "Those Who Reject Christ's Church are Anti-Christian"). http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/6480/catholics/apostolic4chp2.html St. Thomas Aquinas: It is also shown that to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for salvation. For Cyril says in his Thesaurus: “Therefore, brethren, if we imitate Christ so as to hear his voice remaining in the Church of Peter and so as not be puffed up by the wind of pride, lest perhaps because of our quarrelling the wily serpent drive us from paradise as once he did Eve.” And Maximus in the letter addressed to the Orientals says: “The Church united and established upon the rock of Peter’s confession we call according to the decree of the Savior the universal Church, wherein we must remain for the salvation of our souls and wherein loyal to his faith and confession we must obey him.” St. Thomas Aquinas, Against the Errors of the Greeks, Pt. 2, ch. 36 http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraErrGraecorum.htm#b38 St. Peter Julian Eymard: "People often say, 'It is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic.' That is not true! (quoted in "The Real Presence, NY: Blessed Sacrament Fathers, 1938, p. 245). http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/heretic.htm St. Frances Xavier Cabrini: "Many Protestants have almost the same practices as we, only they do not submit to the Holy Father and attach themselves to the true Ark of Salvation. They do not want to become Catholics and unite themselves under the banner of truth wherein alone there is true salvation. Of what avail is it, children, if Protestants lead naturally pure, honest lives, yet lack the Holy Ghost? They may well say: 'We do no harm; we lead good lives'; but, if they do not enter the true fold of Christ, all their protestations are in vain." St. Frances Xavier Cabrini, "Travels", Chicago: 1944, pp. 84, 71. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/heretic.htm Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis (Concerning Some False Opinions Threatening to Undermine the Foundations of Catholic Doctrine): "Some say they are not bound by the doctrine, explained in Our Encyclical Letter of a few years ago, and based on the sources of revelation, which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing. Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation." Encyclical promulgated on August 12, 1950, #27. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html Baltimore Catechism: "Outside the Church there is no salvation" does not mean that everyone who is not a Catholic will be condemned. It does mean that no one can be saved unless he belongs in some manner to the Catholic Church, either actually or in desire, for the means of grace are not given without some relation to the divine institution established by Christ." Baltimore Catechism, #3, Chapters 11 & 12, #138, 166-167. http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/link.asp?ref=11597 Catechism of the Catholic Church: "Outside the Church there is no salvation" "How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? [Cf. Cyprian, Ep. 73.21: PL 3, 1169; De unit.: PL 4, 509-536.] Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the (Catholic) Church which is his Body: ... Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it." Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part One, "The Profession of Faith", Section Two, "The Profession of the Christian Faith", Chapter Three, "I Believe in the Holy Spirit, Article 9, "I Believe in the Holy Catholic Church", Paragraph 3, "The Church Is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic", Section III, "The Church Is Catholic", #846 (1992 edition, p 244). http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm [The above negates formal submission as necessary, with informal union based upon faith in essentials being allowable as “submission,” but its basis for damnation is like saying that atheists are not damned unless they really know that God is real and Jesus is what the Bible declares, and refuse to submit it it. The Bible does deal with “invincible ignorance,” (Rm. 2) that being through no fault of their own, and which some theologians understand the preceding to statement refer to, but to reconcile this with her inclusion of Protestants in the universal church requires making them ignorant of Rome's claims, but it was such that birthed Protestantism.] LUMEN GENTIUM: 16. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (Cf. Gal. 4:6; Rom. 8:15-16 and 26) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (Cf. Jn. 16:13) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical [Protestant] communities... They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood... Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium; solemnly promulgated by Pope Paul VI, November 21, 1964 http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html Domine Jesus: “On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery,61 are not Churches in the proper sense; however, those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church.”62 http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html Orthodox apologist and author Clark Carlton: "The Orthodox Church opposes the Roman doctrines of universal papal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, purgatory, and the Immaculate Conception precisely because they are untraditional." Clark Carlton, THE WAY: What Every Protestant Should Know About the Orthodox Church, 1997, p 135. |
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The Church has the right, as a perfect and independent society provided with all the means for attaining its end, to decide according to its laws disputes arising concerning its internal affairs, epecially as to the ecclesiastical rights of its members, also to carry out its decision, if necessary, by suitable means of compulsion, contentious or civil jurisdiction. It has, therefore, the right to admonish or warn its members, ecclesiastical or lay, who have not conformed to its laws and also, if needful to punish them by physical means, that is, coercive jurisdiction. In regard to ecclesiastical jurisdiction in criminal matters the Church exercised jurisdiction at first only in purely ecclesiastical offences, and inflicted only ecclesiastical punishments, e.g. excommunication, and in the case of clerics deposition. The observance of these penalties had to be left to the conscience of the individual. But with the formal recognition of the Church by the State and the increase of ecclesiastical penalties proportioned to the increase of ecclesiastical offences, came an appeal from the Church to the secular arm for aid in enforcing the said penalties, which aid was always willingly granted... The penal jurisdiction of the medieval Church included, therefore, first the merely ecclesiastical offences, e.g. heresy, schism, apostasy, etc.; then the merely civil offences; finally the mixed offences, e.g. sins of the flesh, sacrilege, blasphemy, magic, perjury, usury, etc. In punishing offences of a purely ecclesiastical character the Church disposed unreservedly of the aid of the State for the execution of the penalty. — NCE, Jurisdiction: Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors): "[It is error to believe that] The (Catholic) Church has not the power of using force, nor has she any temporal power, direct or indirect." Section V, Errors Concerning the Church and Her Rights, #24. http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM The Pope Exercises Supreme Jurisdiction The Council of Florence (1439): "We define that the Holy Apostolic See--and the Roman Pontiff--has primacy over the whole world, and that the same Roman Pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter, prince of the apostles and true Vicar of Christ, head of the whole Church, and father and teacher of all Christians, and that upon him, in blessed Peter, our Lord Jesus Christ conferred the full power of shepherding, ruling and governing the universal Church, as is also stated in the acts of the ecumenical councils and the sacred canons" (DS 1307). The Roman Pontiff "does not only have the office of inspection and direction," but enjoys "full and supreme power of jurisdiction, not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and governance of the Church dispersed throughout the world" (DS 3064). Vatican I emphasized the fullness of papal power and defined that it is not enough to recognize that the Roman Pontiff "has the principal role." One must admit instead that he "has all the fullness of this supreme power" (DS 3064). Vatican II speaks of the Bishop of Rome as "pastor of the entire Church," having "full, supreme and universal power" (LG 22). That power is "primacy over all, both pastors and faithful" (LG 22). — General Audience — February 24, 1993 http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19930224en.html Pope Innocent IV, Ad extirpanda (named for its Latin incipit): A papal bull, promulgated on May 15, 1252, by Pope Innocent IV, which explicitly authorized (and defined the appropriate circumstances for) the use of torture by the Inquisition for eliciting confessions from heretics.[1] The bull was issued in the wake of the murder of the papal inquisitor of Lombardy, St. Peter of Verona, who was killed by a conspiracy of Cathar sympathizers on 6 April 1252. The bull argued that as heretics are "murderers of souls as well as robbers of God’s sacraments and of the Christian faith ...", they are "to be coerced—as are thieves and bandits—into confessing their errors and accusing others, although one must stop short of danger to life or limb." [2] The following parameters were placed on the use of torture:[1]
The requirement that torture only be used once was effectively meaningless in practice as it was interpreted as authorizing torture with each new piece of evidence that was produced and by considering most practices to be a continuation (rather than repetition) of the torture session (non ad modum iterationis sed continuationis).[1] The bull conceded to the State a portion of the property to be confiscated from convicted heretics.[3] The State in return assumed the burden of carrying out the penalty. The relevant portion of the bull read: "When those adjudged guilty of heresy have been given up to the civil power by the bishop or his representative, or the Inquisition, the podestà or chief magistrate of the city shall take them at once, and shall, within five days at the most, execute the laws made against them."[4] Innocent’s Bull prescribes that captured heretics, being "murderers of souls as well as robbers of God’s sacraments and of the Christian faith, . . . are to be coerced – as are thieves and bandits – into confessing their errors and accusing others, although one must stop short of danger to life or limb." — Bull Ad Extirpanda (Bullarium Romanorum Pontificum, vol. 3 [Turin: Franco, Fory & Dalmazzo, 1858], Lex 25, p. 556a.) |
I am a Latter-day Saint Christian. I love Catholic and Protestant Christians. I consider Catholics and Protestants to definitely be Christian. All Christians need to work together to defeat our common enemies— specifically Islam, liberal postmodernism, and totalitarian communism.
Yea we are ONE dangerous group
Have a good and blessed Holy Lent!
May Lent 2011, in which all the churches are doing together BRING ALL THE CHRISTIANS TOGETHER.
Amen
Assuming to some, but actually the execution of heretics by Protestantism earlier on was one of the “traditions of men” they inherited from Rome, while many EO’s yet have ill feelings toward her for its treatment by the West (though it was not all one sided).
Real division over salvific issues is superior than unity in error, and evangelicalism has historically manifested both, primarily against Rome and institutionalized Protestantism as regards the former, while its manifest trans denominational unity is essentially that of the Spirit, (Eph. 4:3) as it is based upon the living gospel which effects a common conversion resulting in a shared relationship with the resurrected Christ, with what a particular church one goes to not being a real focus of such fellowship. But this only pertains to those who have been born of the Spirit and seek to walk therein.
So, you are saying you are only writing to correct the distortions put out there about the Catholic faith.That you are not making any effort to convert them,since those writing have no ears, they will not listen anyways. That your efforts are for a third party reading the posts.
But what is the point of defending or correcting, if it's not to save their souls from eternal perdition? Why not just leave them alone, and go and live your life?
Yep. And so does their master.
I am a Christian and love all Christians be they Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, or Nondenominational.
I am descended from Catholic, Protestant, and anaBaptistic families,and my tradition also descends from Orthodox, Catholic, anaBaptistic, and Protestant traditions. I love true believers in Jesus Christ who might be in any Trinitarian Church. I consider true believers in Jesus Christ, in any Trinitarian Church, to definitely be Christian. All Christians need to work together to defeat our common enemy, the Principalities of Darkness -- in our day these are especially dangerous in Islam, liberal postmodernism, and totalitarian communism.
Now now.
It’s not kosher . . . evidently . . . in their eyes . . .
to hold them to their own documents.
It did address it! The point was that those in scripture who were preaching Christ were not really preaching Christ....they didn't know Christ! How could they preach authentically about someone they didn't even know? How could they be telling the truth about Christ if they didn't know him?
As opposed to non-Catholics who believe that the Last Supper was a Passover meal and that Christ's blood was poured out for our sins at the cross? 1 Peter 2:24?
There is no way to find unity between those two beliefs. They are diametrically opposed to one another. Period. One is finished work and the other is continuing work.
As opposed to non-Catholics who believe that the Last Supper was a Passover meal and that Christ's blood was poured out for our sins at the cross? 1 Peter 2:24?
There is no way to find unity between those two beliefs. They are diametrically opposed to one another. Period. One is finished work and the other is continuing work.
I think we have to give them a slight pat on the back for at least believing that Christ is the ultimate source of salvation (although they do their best to contradict that observation.) That fact is just about the only reason I hold out any hope at all for any of them.
But as you say, they so obscure the simple truth of God's grace as to make it almost incomprehensible.
That's why we tell them to go back and read their Bibles. If God so ordains, He will give them the Holy Spirit who will illuminate their study and bring them to the truth of the finished work of Christ risen.
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