Posted on 12/03/2010 4:14:50 PM PST by bibletruth
1 Timothy 2:5 ...one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
There is NO debate here: God's Word clearly points out who the mediator is between God and men: i.e., Christ Jesus
If you believe in God's Word, who is Christ Jesus: The Word of God, then 1 Timothy 2:5 will be easily be understood as Christ the mediator.
Why is it that you guys know so little about your religion but then make what appear to be authoritative statements put out by your Catholic religion???
The foundation of all Our confidence, as you know well, Venerable Brethren, is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. For, God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary.[3]
1. St. Gregory, Pope, de Exposit. in libros Regum.
2. St. Bernard, Serm. in cap. XII Apocalyps.
3. St. Bernard, In Nativit. S. Mariae de Aquaeductu.
4. ...With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ.[6] Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother. ...
For God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is his will, that we obtain everything through Mary.”
from Catholic on-line, no less
Your religion erroneously teaches that there is no Salvation without going thru Mary...Why don't you know that??? Apostasy...
Don't misquote me...That's the cheap shot...
I ask, who do you call Holy Father, God or your pope??? And this is in view of the fact that Jesus said to call no man father...
And the answer of course is that you not only call a man father, but you call a man Holy Father...
You have fun explaining that to God...
Personally, this has got to be one of the most stupidest arguments of the Catholics (e.g. "The Bible is infallible because we say it so.") This rises to the same level as saying the Pope is infallible. Even the Orthodox laugh at that one.
The Bible is infallible because the Church/church has accepted it as the word of God throughout history based upon set criteria. The early church fathers could understand the difference between "infallible" writing and writing from everyday individuals. Otherwise they would NOT have said, "Hey, this writing looks infallible." And one of those criteria of the fathers was NOT that we say it's so. Otherwise why not just say everything that we put out is infallible? This is essentially what you say with the pronouncements of the Pope.
Honestly, sometimes I wonder if there are ANY thinking Catholics. IMO, Catholicism has developed into nothing more than a cult. If this sounds harsh, please read carefully the warning signs of a cult put out by independent observers.
No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
The group/leader is always right.
The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".
Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.
The idea that Jesus’ point was not to use the word “father” under any circumstances is fatuous.
Jesus would never say anything so trivial.
Did it ever occur to you that Jesus was making a point that was deeper? I.e., that we are to look to God for LIFE, and the truth, and that any man is only a representative or agent of God—including our biological fathers, or the apostles, or anyone who teaches us?
Do you call anyone “teacher”? Of course you do. Yet, Jesus said, “Call no man ‘teacher.’” The meaning is: No teacher is the SOURCE of truth in the way that God is the source of truth.
Your smug Catholic-bashing is offensive.
I’m beginning to think that their obsession with virginity has to do with terminal level jealousy.
They want to fantasize that they alone or at least they equally are the focus of Mary’s big lap.
Other blood children would be a real kink in such a fantasy.
Well put.
Your religion erroneously teaches that there is no Salvation without going thru Mary...Why don’t you know that??? Apostasy...
INDEED. They deny that Ferraro’s collection of Roman Catholic convictions are normative for the RCC. Yet, they relentlessly PROVE that they are.
What hideousness.
Excellent.
Thanks.
The dead are alive, and they do hear our prayers, and they offer our prayers to God.
“And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.” — Revelations 5:8
Throughout oh, the entire REST of the BOOK, these same twenty-four elders watch the events on Earth below and offer their own prayers to God.
>> SO WHO OR WHAT DOES THE Mediatrix do ?? ? <<
Presuming you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary, she does nothing more than all Christians do: pray for others. Just that Mary is “most highly favored one,” and “blessed among women,” whom “all generations shall call blessed” because “blessed is the fruit of [her] womb.”
As is stated in every writing referred to in this thread wherein Mary’s mediation is mentioned (although usually excised from the citation), Mary does nothing apart from Christ. All that she accomplishes is from His power, His will and His design.
Notice the prohibition against breaking the bones of the Passover lamb. Jesus not having any bones broken fulfilled that and other prophecy.
Drat!
I was feeling sorry for the Catlicks given how poorly their defenders have participated lately and so as to address their self-acknowledged superiority because they have the authority of Holy Tradition to answer so many pressing problems that I was compiling a list of questions that they could answer without fear of us shooting down their opinions wrapped in papal authority.
Questions like: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Was Jesus a southpaw? Did Mary have a hard delivery (the first time)? Does the Vatican keep in their vaults samples of Jesus' carpentry work? and so many more.
I now have to scratch "Why didn't the Centurion break Jesus' legs when doing so would disqualify Jesus?" from the list because they don't even understand the Passover link.
There you go again, misquoting me AND God...
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
No one said don't use the word 'father'...Jesus said, Don't call any man father...As in a title...I had a father...But I didn't call him father...
Do you call anyone “teacher”? Of course you do. Yet, Jesus said, “Call no man ‘teacher.’”
Here's the correct verse:
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
It's no wonder you guys have such whacked out ideas about Christianity...You apparently don't even know what God tells you in the scriptures...
Let me add to the point, because the RCC is autocratic it doesn't matter what the norm is. The only thing that matters is what the guy in charge says. A case in point is the heresy of the immaculate conception. A Pope declares it to be so about 150 years ago and now everyone falls in line. So if a Pope declares all must believe in Mary to be saved they will do it.
They've lost their way and until God opens their eyes they will be stuck on the wrong side of the Cross.
Absolutely indeed.
A purported 1600 year fantasized “truth” made dogmatic 150 years ago.
And they think Proddys are delusional.
Sheesh.
Do you really believe that the Words of Is it the corporate position of the Roman "church" ? Did I understand you correctly ?
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Creator of the Universe is silly and pointless ? silly, foolish, stupid, inane, idiotic, vacuous, asinine; pointless,
Do you come to that position as a former RCC "priest" ?
senseless, ridiculous, ludicrous, absurd; informal dumb, daft.
Below are the examples
of exalting other deities.
They are real.
They are serious.
They are owned,
operated in,
manifested in,
heart-felt wallowed in
by millions of Roman Catholics around the world.
Pretending otherwise does not change the facts.
White washing it with magicsterical diplospeak
doesn't change the facts.
Rationalizing it with 101 weasel words
doesn't change the facts.
.
.
.
the FACTS are easy enough to see below
for anyone with
more discernment than a gnat's.
.
.
.
Those reading this with any consciousness above comotose
no longer have any excuse.
.
.
.
Holy Spirit will be nudging, urging, forsaking of all such
--ALL HINT OF SUCH--
IGNORING HIS LEADING, NUDGING, URGING
in such matters can be spiritually deadly.
Very spiritually deadly.
.
.
.
ONCE AGAIN,
just a small part of
THE EVIDENCE: .
.
.
Here's the title:
And it carries the official sanctions of:
ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.
WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR
Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .
Here they are:
However, as we've seen through a variety of sources--a pile of them in Ferraro's manual about the Rosary--the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC's hereon to the contrary.
p.32
.
[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .
p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.
5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.
6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.
"Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary's help, quickly slide toward hell." --Richard of St Victor
p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence
p41
"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18
p43
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"
p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.'
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's vanquishing sin was unnecessary--or ineffectual without Mary's assistance?]
p46
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue."
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]
9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'
.
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]
p47
4 - "Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.'
.
[Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]
5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."
.
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]
p47
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."
p50
8 - "If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?"
p50
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."
Don't you take the words of Jesus seriously?
I think your interpretation of them is fatuous and trivial.
Jesus was telling us how to relate to God and to man.
He was not telling us simply not to use a certain word.
BTW: Have you plucked out your eyes and cut off your hands yet? No? Don't you take the words of Jesus seriously?
“Master” is one way of translating the word “magister.”
Which means “teacher.”
Have you ever heard of a “schoolmaster”? Or were you under the impression that all schoolboys have been sold into slavery?
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