All graces given by God pass through the Blessed Mother

The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Matthew 23:3 says what it says, not what we would like it to say: it does not say, "Follow the Law of Moses." It says, "whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do." "They" are the scribes and Pharisees, who are called hypocrites for the rest of the chapter. What is the "therefore" there for? It cannot reasonably be denied that there is a connection with the S&P's sitting in Moses' seat and the requirement that what they bid be observed, even though they were hypocrites.

Thank you, I am aware of that reference.

You are not going to like the answer, however.

It doesn't bother me one way or the other, as I'm not Christian. I'm interested in religious history, that's all.

Let me see... I have a Bible (God’s Word) in one hand, and a catechism in the other hand. Hmmmm... which one trumps the other?

I can sort-of “get it” when it comes to “respectful veneration”. But why waste your time when it could be better spent studying God’s Word and praying directly to Him?

A Catholic dictionary defines “venerate” as “to honor, admire, and regard with respect.” No mention of praying. Praying through anyone, dead or alive, is idolatry and blasphemy.

And frankly all those dark robed men in that photo give me zero comfort ....rather... looks pretty creepy to me. And just for your information...satan and his hoard can mimic and do what appears to be miracles...Therefore I will continue to walk my walk with Christ by faith.....not by what might be seen.
You are correct regarding Satan. One must always be watchful, and not follow "what might be seen." The lives of saints, however, have been scrupulously gone over by the Catholic Church. I, myself, would not have sought out (so I hardly expect you to do so) the CC on my own. (I had too many sins they spoke strongly against and felt being a Missouri-Synod Lutheran was okay enough for me.) But the Eucharist ("the source and summit of the Christian life") was shown to me quite literally (through the hundreds of daily Mass attenders who partook in same), as I joined my boyfriend (for several months) on his daily journey to Mass.

The life of another great saint, Maximilian Maria Kolbe (another "dark robed" man; do you think he brought "zero comfort" to Franciszek Gajowniczek?), is celebrated today, August 14, in the Roman Catholic Church. Maximilian Kolbe was a Polish priest who died as prisoner 16670 in Auschwitz, on August 14, 1941. When a prisoner escaped from the camp, the Nazis selected 10 others to be killed by starvation in reprisal for the escape. One of the 10 selected to die, Franciszek Gajowniczek, began to cry: "My wife! My children! I will never see them again!" At this Father Kolbe stepped forward and asked to die in his place - his request was granted. As the ten condemned men were led off to the death Block of Building 13, Father Kolbe supported a fellow prisoner who could hardly walk. No one would emerge alive - Father Kolbe was the last to die ... Link. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends --John 15:13.
The life of Fr. Maximilian Kolbe was spent wholly out of Love for the Eucharist and Our Lady. With tenderness he wrote of how Our Heavenly Mother always leads us to her Son, “Let us give ourselves to the Immaculata ... This is the manner most perfect and pleasing to the Lord Jesus and brings great fruit to us ...” --Link.
St. Maximilian Kolbe, pray for us ...

Let me see... I have a Bible (God’s Word) in one hand, and a catechism in the other hand. Hmmmm... which one trumps the other? ... why waste your time [regarding respectful veneration] when it could be better spent studying God’s Word and praying directly to Him? ... Praying through anyone, dead or alive, is idolatry and blasphemy.
I have a monster head cold, your comment has loathsome leanings, and I've already quoted the CCC on idolatry, so I'm passing on this one, leaving more time to pray to (and for!) my dead mother [08-08-08]. Dear Mom ... You may or not know this, but our country is (as dad would say) "in deeper s**t than we can carry," and I ask you for your prayers, while we all continue to pray for your soul (and dad's too!) as well.
St. Genevieve, please pray for "Murph" (and the whole world) ...
St. Maximilian Kolbe, on your feast day, please pray for us!

All of those religions (except Catholicism) are all divided among THEMSELVES, just like the Protestants, of which I assume you are one.

Example: Protestant, there is no such religion, they are divided in as many sects as there are Protestants, they are united in nothing. They can’t even agree if Jesus Christ is God , equal to the Father.The same goes with all the other religions.

re: Vatican II stated that Protestants and other non-Catholics (who certainly are not devoted to Mary) can be saved.

Please post exactly what Vatican II said.

re: Take a look at the Haitian Catholics who incorporate Voo-doo into their catholic faith.

What a few Haitians do, does not change the Catholic Faith, doctrines, and hierarchy. It is one. Don't get too caught up in looking for bad examples. There are few good examples of Christians in this world. FEW.

My years have taught me that the litmus test of a REAL Christian is marriage and birth control. Real Christians stay married till death and have as many children as God sends. They don't use birth control. If I see a person who calls themselves Christian and is divorced and remarried, I know that they are hypocrites. If I see a couple with no children because they use birth control, I know they have not God's Grace.

How many Christians like that do you know?

Excerpt from "DECREE ON ECUMENISM (UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO)"
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

3. Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church-for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church-whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church-do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.

I read every word and don’t read anywhere that non-Catholics can be saved, it does not say it. In stereotypical Vatican II language, it might sound like it says it to some people who want to hear that it says it, but it does not say it. IT CAN’T SAY IT. It is a dogma of the Church that EENS. There is no contrary dogma. There can’t be.

Holy bejesus...I’m doomed...the Katlicks say I can’t be saved...but of course I have a lot of company....

I read every word and don’t read anywhere that non-Catholics can be saved, it does not say it. In stereotypical Vatican II language, it might sound like it says it to some people who want to hear that it says it, but it does not say it. IT CAN’T SAY IT. It is a dogma of the Church that EENS. There is no contrary dogma. There can’t be.

I have bolded the relevant parts to help you out:

But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)

All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.

As far as your take of EENS, the Catholic Encyclopedia explains it as follows:

The doctrine is summed up in the phrase, Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. This saying has been the occasion of so many objections that some consideration of its meaning seems desirable. It certainly does not mean that none can be saved except those who are in visible communion with the Church. The Catholic Church has ever taught that nothing else is needed to obtain justification than an act of perfect charity and of contrition. Whoever, under the impulse of actual grace, elicits these acts receives immediately the gift of sanctifying grace, and is numbered among the children of God. Should he die in these dispositions, he will assuredly attain heaven. It is true such acts could not possibly be elicited by one who was aware that God has commanded all to join the Church, and who nevertheless should willfully remain outside her fold. For love of God carries with it the practical desire to fulfill His commandments. But of those who die without visible communion with the Church, not all are guilty of willful disobedience to God's commands. Many are kept from the Church by ignorance. Such may be the case of numbers among those who have been brought up in heresy. To others the external means of grace may be unattainable. Thus an excommunicated person may have no opportunity of seeking reconciliation at the last, and yet may repair his faults by inward acts of contrition and charity.

Thanks for the highlighting. My prior comment still stands, exactly as written. EENS is a clear dogma, there is no dogma that can contradict it, that is why Vatican II can’t come out and clearly say that non-Catholics can be saved.

You know better than the Catholic Encyclopedia, then?

I see nothing in God's word that marriage nor birth control is evidence of one being a Christian or not. Rather a real Christian will evidence the fruit of His Spirit, additionally will believe that Christ's death, burial and resurrection paid the price for their sins when they come to Him. Our salvation as Christians is not dependent on marriage nor birth control....but on Christ's finished work alone.

You can certainly claim Catholics are one....but there is way more than a few in your memberships and churches which evidences otherwise....Thinking and saying you are one is very different than actually being one.

But I will say all who are Christians...in Christ Jesus...are one in the body of Christ just as it is written...no matter the church they attend... which even the catholic church agrees this is so.

Most all Catholics....these threads the exception... I have encountered definitely think a woman has the right to her own body and that to select abortion...as well as divorce and re-marriage. In fact those I have spoken with attend mass and church functions but do not believe their life choices are dependent on what Rome says...let alone the Bible. That is not to say there aren't Christians in the Catholic church for I do believe very well that there are. But my experiences with many is as stated here.

Anyone that thinks that, as you say"a woman has the right to her own body and that to select abortion...as well as divorce and re-marriage and " do not believe their life choices are dependent on Catholic doctrine...let alone the Bible", are Christians in name only.

re: I see nothing in God's word that marriage nor birth control is evidence of one being a Christian or not. Rather a real Christian will evidence the fruit of His Spirit

The evidence of the Holy Spirit IS THAT THEY REMAIN MARRIED FOR LIFE AND HAVE ALL THE CHILDREN GOD SENDS THEM (not use birth control). If you think other wise, that you can divorce and use birth control, you are just fooling yourself, you are no Christian. There are FEW in this world.

There is much more involved in becoming a son of God than just “receiving Christ”. Remember that the 5 foolish virgins low on oil (Mat 25:1-13), the man who buried the one talent (Mat 25:14-30), the man without the wedding garment (Mat 22:2-14), and the many, that will say Lord, Lord (Mat 7:22), all made an effort, and still were all thrown to hell.

“And if the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” (1Peter 4:18)

Salvation is not a simple matter. Christ said that few will find it (Mat 7:14)

By their deeds you shall know them, if they are married for life and have not used contraceptives, they Christians, if not, they are false Christians on the road to perdition.

The Catholic encyclopedia definition is ambiguous and fallible, the dogma of EENS is not. The dogma of EENS is very clear and final. The AMERICAN Catholic encyclopedia's description just raises a thousand questions. It reminds me of St. Augustine final conclusion on the subject of the probability of an unbaptized catechumen being saved:

St. Augustine: “If you wish to be a Catholic, do not venture to believe, to say, or to teach that ‘[u][b]they whom the Lord has predestinated for baptism can be snatched away from his predestination, or die before that has been accomplished in them [/b][/u]which the Almighty has predestined.’ There is in such a dogma more power than I can tell assigned to chances in opposition to the power of God, by the occurrence of which casualties that which He has predestinated is not permitted to come to pass. [u][b]It is hardly necessary to spend time or earnest words in cautioning the man who takes up with this error against the absolute vortex of confusion into which it will absorb him[/b][/u], when I shall sufficiently meet the case if I briefly warn the prudent man who is ready to receive correction against the threatening mischief.” (On the Soul and Its Origin 3, 13)

The dogma is clear and final:

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra:

“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia productive of eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

I think you really need to study the Catholic Faith and meditate on the ordinary words in the dogmas on EENS, the faithful, Heretics, Jews, Pagans, and all human creatures and accept the reasonable fact that the Pontiffs who pronounced these decrees were perfectly literate and fully cognizant of what they were saying. If there were any need to soften or qualify their meanings, they were quite capable of doing so.

Being ex cathedra definitions, they must be taken literally, unequivocally, and absolutely. Hence, to attempt to modify or qualify them in any way is to deny them.

The doctrine says that only Catholics go to Heaven; all others are lost, that is, they do not go to Heaven, but to Hell. All who are inclined to dispute this dogma should have the good sense to realize that if this is not what the words of the definitions mean, the Church would never have promulgated such a position. To give any other meaning to these words is to portray the Church as foolish and ridiculous.

Well regardless of you think... that is what many Catholics practice..just as I stated. For that matter many Protestants do as well....but I mentioned nothing about dependency on Catholic Doctrine though it appears this is also a condition for salvation in your beliefs.

I will say again that God clearly states Salvation is in Christ alone and His finished work on our behalf....and certainly not in the doctrines of any specific church. Rather we become members of His body...His church...with Christ as head over all believers in every branch of Christian community...and the Vatican states that Christians are among those churches other than the Catholic Church alone as well. So adhereing to Catholic doctrine is not a requirement for Salvation...nor being a member of any specific church group....nothing in scripture supports your statement.

I do not support abortion and would find it very difficult to believe a Christian could carry this act through without ship-wreaking their faith. But there are many catholics who believe their reasons for allowing abortion does not exclude them from being a Christian regardless of catholic doctrine.

The evidence of being a Christian comes as the individual grows in the Grace and Knowledge of Christ....just as children make foolish decisions so too young Christians do as well...and they learn as they go until maturity in Christ. It is a lifetime of growth and allowing more and more of our life to reflect Christ as we yield those areas He chooses to change... to conform us to His image. But generally when one becomes a Christan there is evidence of changes in their life...but not always visible.

I see you likely adhere to what Rome teaches you should adhere to but there are many catholics who do not adhere to Rome. That is just reality.

The Catholic encyclopedia definition is ambiguous and fallible

I certainly isn't ambiguous regarding the issue at hand; it unambiguously states that EENS does not mean what you claim. The Catholic Encyclopedia, by the way, is published with approval of an Archbishop. If an Archbiship is not good enough for you, I give you Dominus Iesus, written by Cardinal Ratzinger and approved by JPII. Here's an excerpt:

The Church is the “universal sacrament of salvation”,79 since, united always in a mysterious way to the Saviour Jesus Christ, her Head, and subordinated to him, she has, in God's plan, an indispensable relationship with the salvation of every human being.80 For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit”;81 it has a relationship with the Church, which “according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit”.82

re: I certainly isn't ambiguous regarding the issue at hand; it unambiguously states that EENS does not mean what you claim.

A fallible ambigously article from an encyclopedia, written by one man, you make your own dogma, because that is what you want to hear.

A clear precise dogma, you deny, because it is not what you want to hear. "nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ",

It's that simple!

“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia productive of eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”