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Two Revolutions, Two Views of Man
Conservative Underground | July 6, 2010 | Jean F. Drew

Posted on 07/25/2010 1:37:12 PM PDT by betty boop

TWO REVOLUTIONS, TWO VIEWS OF MAN
By Jean F. Drew

As every American schoolchild has been taught, in Western history there were two great sociopolitical revolutions that took place near the end of the eighteenth century: The American Revolution of 1775; and the French, of 1789. Children are taught that both revolutions were fought because of human rights in some way; thus bloody warfare possibly could be justified, condoned so long as the blood and treasure were shed to protect the “rights of man.” The American schoolchild is assured that the American and French revolutions were both devoted to the expansion of human rights and thus were equally noble revolutions. Moreover, it is widely believed that the French Revolution was an evolution from the American one.

Rather than simply accept these ideas uncritically, comparison and contrast of the two revolutions can shed some light on what turns out to be their stark differences — as to inceptions, ostensible goals, foundational ideology, and respective outcomes.

Inceptions
There is a famous Pythagorean maxim (c. sixth century B.C.): “The beginning is the half of the whole.” That is to say, inception events have a way of profoundly influencing the course of events that follow from them; and so their analysis can give insight into the character of their development in time, and even of the motivations they configure. Less obviously, an inception event is itself the culmination of a train of social, political, and cultural development that finally “erupts,” or takes evident shape, as a concrete beginning, or precipitating event of what follows. At that point, a situation of no return has been reached: “The fat is in the fire.” There is no turning back….

And so, let us take a look at the beginnings of two revolutions:

The American:
“In London George III and his cabinet, their confidence bolstered by their huge majority in Parliament, moved toward a confrontation with the Americans. On February 2, 1775, [Prime Minister Frederick, Lord] North introduced a motion to declare the province of Massachusetts in a state of rebellion and asked the King to take steps to support the sovereignty of England. The opposition, led by Edmund Burke, decried this move as a declaration of war. But the measure passed by a majority of three to one. George III was immensely pleased….”

The King decided to send some 1,000 reinforcements to Boston, far short of the number that Governor General Thomas Gage had wanted.

“…The King and his ministers still refused to believe Gage’s assessment of the odds he faced…. Colonel James Grant — who had served in America, at one point in the same army with George Washington [in the French and Indian Wars] — declared he was certain the Americans ‘would never dare to face an English army.’… In this spirit the King … ordered Lord Dartmouth to draft a letter telling Gage that it was time to act.”

Gage promptly acted. Thanks to his spies, he knew that the Colonials were accumulating military stores at Concord, including large quantities of gunpowder. So Gage decided that a swift march on Concord to seize the powder as well as the fourteen cannon said to be in the town “would have a crippling, even demoralizing impact on the Provincial Congress’s plans to form an Army of Observation to pen the British inside Boston.”

From this decision ensued, on April 19, 1775, the opening shot — “the shot heard ’round the world” — of the American Revolutionary War, at North Bridge, Concord, Massachusetts at about 8 o’clock in the morning.

Although the Colonials already knew the British were coming to Concord and Lexington sooner or later, and for what purpose, and that the incursion would come by a night march (rare in that day) — the Americans proved early to be remarkably effective spies — what they did not know was the specific date, or whether the British forces would be moving by land — over Boston Neck — or by sea — in longboats across the Back Bay. Hence the famous signal of “one if by land, two if by sea” posted at the Old North Church, wherein observers were keeping an eye on British troop movements.

It turned out to be “two”: The British forces, under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Francis Smith, were subsequently debarked at Cambridge across the Charles River, from longboats attached to H.M.S. Somerset then standing guard over the Boston Harbor ferryway. This was a force of some 700 men composed of light infantrymen and “fearsome” grenadiers. From thence the body proceeded overland, on a much shorter march than would have been the case had they approached Concord via Boston Neck. The route from Cambridge to Concord led straight through the heart of the neighboring town of Lexington.

As soon as the news came that the British were moving, Paul Revere set upon his famous midnight ride “on a fast mare,” traveling west at high speed to warn the people of Concord and the surrounding towns that the British were coming. Samuel Prescott and William Dawes likewise fanned out on horseback, spreading the alert to all within earshot.

The folks at Concord, having thus been warned, working feverishly overnight, managed to remove all the military stores to safe locations. The locals felt confident they could handle the threat: After all, the town had 600 drilled and trained Minutemen on spot, and there were some 6,000 other Minutemen and Militia — a body composed of all able-bodied men between the ages of 15 and 60 — within fairly easy reach of Concord town who were already pledged to come to her aid in the event of the outbreak of actual hostilities.

The people of Concord evidently figured a show of force would suffice to deter the British officers from doing anything rash. But really what they were relying on was their expectation — based on their understanding of the so-far prevailing rules of engagement, frequently tested — that British troops would never open fire on their fellow citizens — i.e., the Colonials themselves, who were British subjects also — unless they were fired upon first. And the Americans did not intend to fire first.

In this assessment of the situation on the ground, they were sadly mistaken. In the approach to Concord, the Brits had provoked a bloody engagement at Lexington Green in which “the British light infantry unquestionably fired the first volleys, killing eight men and wounding ten.” Then the British forces continued their march into Concord, to secure the bridges of the town: The British commander Smith had detached four squadrons to visit a prominent local farm to see whether contraband might be stashed there; and feared his troops could not safely return if the North Bridge were under the control of the Colonials. In defense of the bridge, the Brits again fired first. For a moment, the Americans could not believe this was happening. “‘Goddamn it,’ one man shouted, ‘They are firing ball!’” Then their commander, Major Buttrick, “whirled and shouted, ‘Fire fellow soldiers, for God’s sake fire.’” The Americans sustained six casualties at North Bridge, all fatal. On the British side, “Two privates were killed and a sergeant, four privates and four officers were wounded.”

Then the Brits cut their losses and in disorderly retreat high-tailed it back to the security of their barracks in Boston — empty-handed. Their mission was a failure: They had not found, let alone confiscated, any military stores.

But the American Revolutionary War was officially ON….

* * * * * * *

The French:
“History will record, that on the morning of the 6th of October 1789, the king and queen of France, after a day of confusion, alarm, dismay, and slaughter, lay down, under the pledged security of public faith, to indulge nature in a few hours of respite, and troubled melancholy repose. From this sleep the queen was first startled by the voice of the sentinel at her door, who cried out to her, to save herself by flight — that this was the last proof of fidelity he could give — that they were upon him, and he was dead. Instantly he was cut down. A band of cruel ruffians and assassins, reeking with his blood, rushed into the chamber of the queen, and pierced with an hundred strokes of bayonets and poniards the bed, from whence this persecuted woman had just time to fly almost half naked, and through ways unknown to the murderers had escaped to seek refuge at the feet of a king and husband, not secure of his own life for a moment.

“This king … and this queen, and their infant children (who once would have been the pride and hope of a great and generous people) were then forced to abandon the sanctuary of the most splendid palace in the world, which they left swimming in blood, polluted by massacre, and strewed with scattered limbs and mutilated carcasses. Thence they were conducted into the capital of their kingdom. Two had been selected from the unprovoked, unresisted, promiscuous slaughter which was made of the gentlemen of birth and family who composed the king’s bodyguard. These two gentlemen, with all the parade of an execution of justice, were cruelly and publicly dragged to the block, and beheaded…. Their heads were stuck upon spears, and led the procession; whilst the royal captives who followed in the train were slowly moved along, amidst the horrid yells, and shrilling screams, and frantic dances, and infamous contumelies, and all the unutterable abominations of the furies of hell…. After they had been made to taste, drop by drop, more than the bitterness of death, in the slow torture of a journey of twelve miles protracted to six hours, they were, under a guard composed of those very soldiers who had thus conducted them through this famous triumph, lodged in one of the old palaces of Paris, now converted into a Bastile for kings….”

And thus, the French Revolutionary War was officially ON….

On the question of origins — beginnings, inceptions, precipitating events — it would appear that the American and French Revolutions do not seem to resemble one another very much. It’s difficult to draw a common understanding of what human rights might be on the basis of such disparate evidence.

On the one hand, it’s possible to see that perhaps human rights had something to do with the defense of Concord: People coming together to protect and defend their lives, liberty, and property against the tyranny of George III, who then was most corruptly usurping the ancient “rights of Englishmen” not only in America, but also back in the home isles — as the Colonials were very well aware.

People today do not appreciate how close was the tie with the “mother country” at the time, through the printed word: In that day, the London presses were offloading their publications directly onto American ships bound for Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Charleston, as soon as the ink was dry. It was from the London press that the Colonials learned of the usurpations of individual liberty that good King George was perpetrating at home, not to mention in their own backyard. They wanted no part of it.

On the other hand, it’s difficult to see what human right is implicated in the inception event of the French Revolution — unless it be the right to commit regicide. Or maybe the right to agitate and deploy mobs as instruments of social and political change….

In the end, “Citizen Louis Capet,” formerly known as King Louis XVI of France, was tried and convicted of treason by the National Convention and was guillotined on 21 January 1793 — the only French king in history to fall victim to regicide. His queen, Marie Antoinette, was also tried and convicted of treason: She was executed by guillotine on 16 October 1793, nine months after her husband.

Ostensible Goals
It seems clear that the Americans were not seeking to kill the king, or to overthrow the traditions of the British constitutional monarchy. Rather, they were seeking a complete, formal separation from it — because they were motivated by the conviction that their historic liberties were being systematically violated by George III.

By 1775, the Americans already had a tradition of local or self-government going back some 150 years. When the king sent in his governors, who ruled autocratically as directed by himself and his council, the Americans were outraged. The maxim “no taxation without representation” was but one expression of their revulsion for what they perceived as the wholesale destruction of the historic liberties of British subjects in America. The Sons of Liberty at Boston, notably including Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, and John Hancock, eloquently argued for total separation from the British Crown — not the most popular idea at first. But the events at Lexington Green and Concord Bridge caused many to reappraise their position on this matter. In the end, complete separation was the idea that prevailed, and which was finally achieved….

So what was this notion of liberty that had the Americans so exercised? John Trenchard and Robert Gordon, writing in Cato’s Letters — serially published in The London Journal in 1721 and after, which was avidly read in America at the time — describe human liberty as follows:

All men are born free; Liberty is a Gift which they receive from God; nor can they alienate the same by Consent, though possibly they may forfeit it by crimes....

Liberty is the power which every man has over his own Actions, and the Right to enjoy the Fruit of his Labor, Art, and Industry, as far as by it he hurts not the Society, or any Member of it, by taking from any Member, or by hindering him from enjoying what he himself enjoys.

The fruits of a Man’s honest Industry are the just rewards of it, ascertained to him by natural and eternal Equity, as is his Title to use them in the Manner which he thinks fit: And thus, with the above Limitations, every Man is sole Lord and Arbiter of his own private Actions and Property....

These were the ideas that had earlier inspired the Glorious Revolution of 1688, of which the great British philosopher and political activist, John Locke (1632–1704) — a thinker enormously respected in America — was the intellectual father. Above all, Locke’s ideas constitute a theory of the individual human being. This is the same theory that inspired the American Revolution of 1775: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed….” Indeed, it appears the author of the Declaration of Independence (July 4, 1776) was strongly resonating to Locke’s essential political ideas in these passages.

Edmund Burke (1729–1797) — the great Anglo-Irish statesman, political theorist, and philosopher (who as already noted was sympathetic to the American cause) — also articulated the historic rights of Englishmen, and of all free peoples universally, as follows:

“…If civil society be made for the advantage of man, all the advantages for which it is made become his right. It is an institution of beneficence; the law itself is only beneficence acting by a rule. Men have a right to live by that rule; they have a right to justice; as between their fellows, whether their fellows are in political function or in ordinary occupation. They have a right to the fruits of their industry; and to the means of making their industry fruitful. They have a right to the acquisitions of their parents; to the nourishment and improvement of their offspring; to instruction in life, and to consolation in death. Whatever each man can separately do, without trespassing on others, he has a right to do for himself; and he has a right to a fair portion of all which society, with all its combinations of skill and force, can do in his favor. But as to the share of power, authority and direction which each individual ought to have in the management of the state, that I must deny to be amongst the direct original rights of man in civil society; for I have in my contemplation the civil social man, and no other. It is a thing to be settled by convention.

“If civil society be the offspring of convention, that convention must be its law. That convention must limit and modify all the descriptions of constitution which are formed under it. Every sort of legislative, judicial, or executory power are its creatures. They can have no being in any other state of things; and how can a man claim, under the conventions of civil society, rights which do not so much as suppose its existence?”

This last point draws attention to Burke’s understanding that the foundational rights of man declared by the French philosophes — Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité — are purely abstract rights indicating no sign of understanding of, or connection with, the actual development and maintenance of a just civil society. In other words, the philosophes envisioned man abstractly, or to put it another way, as abstracted from both nature and society as if this abstract man stands as a total end in himself, as sacrosanct, beyond any demand of society which nature assigns to him as inescapable part and participant of it. It seems the philosophes first reduce the human being to an abstraction — by taking him entirely out of the context of historical experience and traditional understandings of natural law going back millennia. Then, with man having been so abstracted, from there it is easy to dissolve him into an abstract mass: The individual is no longer the natural or even “legal” bearer of rights; rather, the legal bearer of rights is now the mass, the “group”— mankind at large or however else defined.

There is a further consideration regarding the original American founding that we should remember today: The British colony at Massachusetts was not established by means of military power — which is the usual way that states of whatever description acquire new territories. Instead, the Massachusetts Bay Colony was established by religious refugees: They were dissenters from the Church of England, the established church of which the reigning king was titular head.

Beginning with Henry VIII and extending to all his successors, the king of England entirely combined in his own person both the fundamental secular and spiritual authority of British society. But, when religious pilgrims on November 11, 1620, at Provincetown, Massachusetts, ratified what has been described as the first written constitution in human history, the Mayflower Compact, they were acting in resonance to a spiritual authority superior to that of the then-reigning king, James I — or of kings in general.

Just by making the voyage to America, the religious refugees were repudiating the authority of the king over their spiritual lives. Once there, the secular authority of the king was of absolutely no help to them. They had to shift for themselves, and basic survival was the highest priority: Almost the majority of the original colony perished during their first New England winter. They were forced to place their reliance entirely on themselves, on each other, and on God. The Mayflower Compact, moreover, made the pilgrim’s primary reliance on God perfectly explicit. Its first five words are: “In the name of God, Amen.”

Hold that thought while we turn to the French experience.

For centuries, the foundation of French society, culture, and politics had been the idea of the Etats General, of which there were three “estates”: the aristocracy, whose head was the King; the Church, whose head was the Pope; and everybody else; i.e., your average, everyday, common, “small” people….

What is known is that when King Louis XVI was decapitated, the social force of the French aristocracy was effectively decapitated with him. Also it is known that in the four-year period between the invasion of the queen’s bedchamber and the execution of the king, some 16,000 French men and women were guillotined at Paris — mainly aristocrats and other well-off people — as “enemies of the State.” Also all Church lands (probably accounting for some twenty percent of the total French real estate) and property were forcibly confiscated by the State, now reposed in a body called the National Assembly, composed by the Third Estate, the “people” of France. Thousands of clergy — bishops, priests, monks, and nuns — were murdered.

In effect the Third Estate utterly destroyed the other two: That’s the French Revolution in a nutshell.

Foundational Ideology
The French Revolution managed to kill off the first two Estates — and with that, evidently hoped to extinguish forever all aristocratic and theological ideas, pretensions, and powers regarding questions of the human condition. Indeed, the general expectation then seemed to be the Third Estate, the people, unchained from past “superstitions” and “repressions,” had at last come into its own sphere, where it could finally define and exercise true human “liberty.”

But the people were not some sort of homogeneous mass. Rather, there is a natural hierarchical order within the Third Estate similar to that found in both the aristocratic and theological estates.

In France at the time, at the top of this natural hierarchy were the people with expertise in manufacturing, commerce, banking, and law. They were the beneficiaries of the rising tide of the Enlightenment, as plentifully nourished from the side of Newtonian science.

In the rank immediately below them were the skilled craftsmen. Below this, relatively unskilled laborers. Then, the “least” of the people, the peasants/serfs who mainly were the impoverished suffering victims of the feudal order then embraced by both the aristocracy and the Church.

Thus within the Third Estate there were marked disparities of wealth, opportunity, education, talent, and ability. Yet the doctrine of Egalité erases all such distinctions: An Einstein and the most ignorant day laborer were considered “equal.” All were “equal” in the National Assembly too. On this basis, the doctrine of Fraternité, of the universal brotherhood of mankind, is blind and silent regarding the problem of: how the victims of the revolution become “non-brothers” in the first place, such that they could be destroyed with impunity by the mob, or condemned as “enemies of the state” by the National Convention and sent to the guillotine. On this basis, the doctrine of Liberté seems little more than a defense of gratuitous, passionate license that is immensely destructive to society.

Burke’s analysis of the situation in France, the condition of the National Assembly, and their combined implications, retains its extraordinary political noteworthiness to defenders of Liberty in our own day:

“It is no wonder therefore, that it is with these ideas of everything in their constitution and government at home, either in church or state, as illegitimate and usurped, or, at best as a vain mockery, they look abroad with an eager and passionate enthusiasm. Whilst they are possessed by these notions, it is vain to talk to them of the practice of their ancestors, the fundamental laws of their country, the fixed form of a constitution, whose merits are confirmed by the solid test of long experience, and an increasing public strength and national prosperity.

“They despise experience as the wisdom of unlettered men; and as for the rest, they have wrought underground a mine that will blow up at one grand explosion all examples of antiquity, all precedents, charters, and acts of parliament. They have ‘the rights of men.’ Against these there can be no prescription; against these no agreement is binding; these admit no temperament [modification], and no compromise: anything withheld from their full demand is so much of fraud and injustice. Against these their rights of men let no government look for security in the length of its continuance, or in the justice and lenity of its administration….”

Burke again reminds us a few pages later on that there is deep danger in relying on abstract rights when it comes to the organization of a just — that is “liberal,” in the sense of liberty, the root idea of classical liberalism — political society:

“The moment you abate anything from the full rights of men, each to govern himself, and suffer any artificial positive limitation upon those rights, from that moment the whole organization of government becomes a consideration of convenience. This it is which makes the constitution of a state, and the due distribution of its powers, a matter of the most delicate and complicated skill. It requires a deep knowledge of human nature and human necessities, and of the things which facilitate or obstruct the various ends which are to be pursued by the mechanism of civil institutions. The state is to have recruits to its strength, and remedies to its distempers. What is the use of discussing a man’s abstract right to food or medicine? The question is upon the method of procuring and administering them. In that deliberation I shall always advise to call in the aid of the farmer and the physician, rather than the professor of metaphysics.”

In Burke’s view — and I daresay in the view of his contemporary American readers — the French Revolution was a

“… usurpation which, in order to subvert ancient institutions, has destroyed ancient principles, will hold power by arts similar to those by which it has acquired it. When the old feudal and chivalrous spirit of Fealty, which by freeing kings from fear, freed both kings and subjects from the precautions of tyranny, shall be extinct in the minds of men, plots and assassinations will be anticipated by preventive murder and preventive confiscation, and that long roll of grim and bloody maxims which form the political code of all power not standing on its own honor and the honor of those who are to obey it. Kings will be tyrants from policy when subjects are rebels from principle.”

“Excuse me … if I have dwelt too long on this atrocious spectacle of the sixth of October 1789, or have given too much scope to the reflections which have arisen in my mind on occasion of the most important of all revolutions, which may be dated from that day, I mean a revolution in sentiments, manners, and moral opinions. As things now stand, with everything respectable destroyed without us, and an attempt to destroy within us every principle of respect, one is almost forced to apologize for harboring the common feelings of men….”

Clearly, Burke understands the French Revolution first and foremost as a “revolution in sentiments, manners, and moral opinions” — that is, it was preeminently a social, not a political revolution. Certainly that was not the case with the American Revolution. Indeed, Bernard Bailyn, eminent professor of Early American History at Harvard, has asked a tantalizing question: Was the American Revolution a revolution, or was it an evolution?

The prevailing American view at the time did not reject the ancient British tradition of natural liberty under natural law; it was rejecting King George as the traducer and usurper of this tradition. They didn’t want a king or a pope; they wanted a system of self-government that had already been in long usage in America. Ultimately they wanted a Constitution exclusively devoted to the defense of human liberty under just and equal laws. Which if history was of any guide meant that the action of the State had to be kept minimal in its scope by well-defined authority.

Most colonial Americans, being heirs of the same ancient, natural-law cultural tradition as Edmund Burke, likely would have agreed with him about this:

“…We are not the converts of Rousseau; we are not the disciples of Voltaire; Helvetius has made no progress amongst us. Atheists are not our preachers; madmen are not our lawgivers. We know that we have made no discoveries; and we think that no discoveries are to be made, in morality; nor many in the great principles of government, nor in the ideas of liberty, which were understood long before we were born, altogether as well as they will be after the grave has heaped its mould on our presumption….”

The allusion to Rousseau here is particularly instructive. Rousseau held that man is born perfectly good: He is born the “noble savage.” But as soon as he is in the world long enough, he becomes subject to a relentless process of corruption that makes him “bad” — because of the “bad institutions” of society, including churches and states, educational systems, economic organizations, and so forth. Man is victimized by society and powerless against it. “Bad institutions” are entirely to blame for human misery.

In short, Rousseau’s doctrine is directly opposed to the natural law doctrine that human beings are responsible (within limits) for whatever happens to them. Natural law theory holds that individual human beings alone have the ability to choose, decide, act; and that they are responsible for the decisions they make. And this implies the objective existence of good and evil. It also requires a universal (divine) spiritual authority to underwrite the foundational truths of the natural and moral worlds, thus to bring them into correspondence in human reason and experience.

In short, the Americans were not disciples of Rousseau…. He stands their theory of man on its very head.

Two Views of Man — Then and Now
The two revolutions have theories of man that are diametrically opposed, based on the idea of what constitutes human liberty, of the source of human rights. What Locke and Burke and the Americans held in common was the belief that human rights are the gifts of God, and are therefore inseparable from human nature itself. In other words, these rights inalienably inhere in concrete individual persons, each and every one, equally.

In contrast, on the French revolutionary view, human rights are the province of an abstraction known as “mankind.” Its doctrine is the Rights of Man — not the equal, inalienable rights of actual men. It sets up scope for the idea of “group rights,” as opposed to the idea of rights divinely vested in the individual person in such a way as to constitute his or her very own human nature. Under the French Revolution, the “metaphysicians” — Burke’s term for intellectual elites — would guide the rest of us in our understanding of such matters. In short, our rights as human beings ineluctably would be what politically powerful elites tell us they are. There is to be no higher standard of truth than that.

In the so-called post-modern world, the revolution that works overtime to kill truth wants to destroy it at its root — at the Logos. Rather than engage in fully free and fair debate, the entire project of the French Revolution seems have been the delegitimation of the idea that there is an “objective” standard by which Reality can be ascertained and judged, the root criterion for the discernment of good and evil in the actual world, by which human beings, acting according to reason and experience, can guide their lives in fruitful ways — or do the opposite. In short, once the concept of good and evil is destroyed, the human being has no firm guide by which to navigate his own personal existence.

Instead of the perennial question of good v. evil, in the post-modern world some “metaphysicians” tell us there is no objective truth at all — which logically follows from the presupposition of the “death” of God which they have, like Rousseau, already achieved in their own minds. The description of human reality thus boils down to a competition of amoral human “narratives,” or skilled opinions; but in the end still opinions. And under the principle of Egalité, one man’s opinion is just like any other man’s, neither good nor bad.

It appears we have among us today “metaphysicians” who desire, in the words of the great Anglo-American poet T. S. Eliot, to contrive and execute “systems so perfect that no one will need to be good.” And then to impose them on humanity. To succeed in this project, first they have to discredit the foundational motivating ideas of the American Revolution….

To speak of the Now: The currently sitting American president seems to be an activist of the French model. He is distinctly a post-modernist thinker, as an analysis of his words vis-à-vis his actions will show. Evidently he has no sympathy for the values, principles, and goals of the American Revolution, and has disparaged the Constitution — to which he freely swore an Oath of fidelity — on grounds that it is a “system of negative liberties” that has outlived its usefulness.

Indeed, it appears that he is doing everything in his power finally to drive a silver stake through the very heart of American liberty — the historic liberty of We the People of the United States of America, and that of our Posterity — for which the Constitution originally was “ordained and established.”

©2010 Jean F. Drew

ENDNOTES
1 Kenneth Sylvan Guthrie, The Pythagorean Sourcebook and Library, David Fideler, ed., Grand Rapids: Phanes Press, 1988, p. 97.
2 Thomas Fleming, Liberty!: The American Revolution, New York: Viking, 1997, p. 104f.
3 Fleming, p. 105.
4 Ibid.
5 Fleming, p. 112.
6 Fleming, p. 118.
7 Ibid.
8 Ibid.
9 Edmund Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France, New York: The Classics of Liberty Library, 1982, p. 105f. Note: Because this edition is a facsimile of the original publication of 1790, I’ve taken the liberty of modernizing the spelling and punctuation.
10 John Trenchard and Robert Gordon, Cato’s Letters, Vol. 1, Indianapolis: Liberty Fund, Inc., 1995, p. 406ff.
11 Burke, p. 87–88.
12 Burke, p. 85–86.
13 Burke, p. 89–90.
14 Burke, p. 116.
15 Burke, p. 119; emphasis added.
16 Burke, p. 127–128; emphasis added.


TOPICS: Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: 17750418; 18thofaprilin75; 2ifbysea; doi; frenchrevolution; godsgravesglyphs; liberty; pythagoras; revolutions; rights; totalitarianism; twoifbysea
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To: 1010RD; Alamo-Girl; kosta50; Wallop the Cat; YHAOS; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; TXnMA; hosepipe
See the current group of theocrats in the WH & Congress enforcing their beliefs on the nation.

What "current group"? What theocrats in the White House or Congress?

I don't see any theocrats in either venue! Quite the contrary, in fact. What the White House and Congress seem to agree on is the need to remove all traditional religious and moral ideas from the public square.

And I also don't know of any U.S. citizens that are agitating for an American theocracy.

What am I missing here?

841 posted on 10/04/2010 5:02:24 PM PDT by betty boop (Seek truth and beauty together; you will never find them apart. — F. M. Cornford)
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To: 1010RD
Thank you so very much 1010RD for your kind words of support!

Still, I'm wondering about your definition of "theocrat".... I would like to understand this. Help me???!!!

842 posted on 10/04/2010 5:05:42 PM PDT by betty boop (Seek truth and beauty together; you will never find them apart. — F. M. Cornford)
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To: betty boop
From Wikipedia: Theocracy is one form of government in which a god or deity is recognized as the state's supreme civil ruler,[1] or in a higher sense, a form of government in which a state is governed by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided...Theocratic governments enact theonomic laws.

I am being partially facetious while pointing out that liberals are believers. Obama is or possibly was their reigning demi-god. Sometimes liberals are just looking for a deliverer. If one fails, they just pursue another in perpetuity.

The fundamental problem with communism/socialism/progressivism is that they are belief systems. Reality constantly intrudes, yet the predictable and tragically bloody consequences of policies implemented by communists/socialists/progressives are ignored by them. It is as if history or causation or scientific proof don't apply to them. Why?

They've just not found the right people to be the Übermensch needed to save us from ourselves. They are true believers who pass Positive Law that violates Natural Law, but are always shocked that they cannot legislate reality.

They may be nominally any religion or none at all, what joins them in a mock-theocracy is their demand that we do what they want by force of violence. They will kill for the cause. Your beliefs and thoughts are their final goal.

Slavery, of course, is the province of the Prince of Lies. He is their master, and they, willing, happy servants.

They, ironically, always seem the most surprised when Sir Galahad turns out to be Cesare Borgia. When they discover this it is usually too late. As you can imagine they have all the accoutrements of a theocracy sans God.

843 posted on 10/04/2010 6:15:21 PM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD; Alamo-Girl; kosta50; Wallop the Cat; YHAOS; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; TXnMA; hosepipe
They are true believers who pass Positive Law that violates Natural Law, but are always shocked that they cannot legislate reality.

Yes, I've noticed that too, 1010RD. Well said!

I think "progressives" in general actually believe they can change the world by changing the way we think about it, the way we describe it in language. The expectation is that rhetoric trumps reality, that reality must conform to the way we desire to think of it. The fact is it doesn't.

Positive Law disconnected from Natural Law is no law at all. Or so it seems to me.

Thanks for your excellent insights 1010RD!

844 posted on 10/05/2010 7:26:11 AM PDT by betty boop (Seek truth and beauty together; you will never find them apart. — F. M. Cornford)
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To: betty boop

Hence they worship themselves as gods

- theocrats, self-referencing theocrats, trying to establish theocracies with themselves installed as god-in-residence.

Who says the Ten Commandments aren’t valid still?


845 posted on 10/05/2010 8:48:40 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: betty boop
I think "progressives" in general actually believe they can change the world by changing the way we think about it, the way we describe it in language. The expectation is that rhetoric trumps reality, that reality must conform to the way we desire to think of it. The fact is it doesn't.

So very true. Thank you for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!

846 posted on 10/05/2010 8:59:54 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

I was just rereading this thread and noted your comments. Take a look at the original Greek of Colossians 1:15-20. Invisible is better rendered as unseen or “that which human eyes are not capable of seeing”. What do you think of that?


847 posted on 10/05/2010 1:31:15 PM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: kosta50

Very acute analysis Kosta, well done. As I’ve read the comments it seems that we are having trouble reconciling eternal beings using temporal understanding. I feel that the Trinity was a reaction to imposed monotheism (the Jewish understanding) and spiritual superiority to physical (the Greek understanding). Would you comment on that?


848 posted on 10/05/2010 1:34:29 PM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD; betty boop
Thank you for your question, dear 1010RD!

"Invisible" in reference to Creation would mean creation ex nihilo:

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. - Hebrews 11:3

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:20

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Colossians 1:15-20

Click here if you are interested in my comments on creation ex nihilo.

Finally, I offer the wisdom of the Jewish Mystics who use the term Ayn Sof when meditating on God The Creator. The word literally means “no thing” – namely, that any word a man uses to describe God reduces his understanding of God to the word he used.

God's Name is I AM.

849 posted on 10/05/2010 10:18:23 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop
I've been meaning to get back to this and give it the attention it deserves. I read your excellent treatise on creation ex nihilo. Very interesting, although I disagree with some of your premises.

We must avoid eisegesis in our approach to scripture study. It is hard because we are believers and we want to believe. Whenever we go beyond the word of the Bible we run a risk of missing the message, yet we are children of reason, made in the image and likeness of God.

"Invisible" in reference to Creation would mean creation ex nihilo

This statement of yours, dear Sister, is presumption and supposition. You are taking the Book of Hebrews out of context and choosing the wrong words. Furthermore, God is not invisible, but simply unseen by certain people.

We've discussed this before IIRC and it would be worth starting back at Genesis 1:1 to understand it correctly. Creation ex nihilo is not a necessary condition of this creation.

850 posted on 10/10/2010 6:57:50 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD; betty boop; MHGinTN
me: "Invisible" in reference to Creation would mean creation ex nihilo

You: This statement of yours, dear Sister, is presumption and supposition. You are taking the Book of Hebrews out of context and choosing the wrong words. Furthermore, God is not invisible, but simply unseen by certain people.

We've discussed this before IIRC and it would be worth starting back at Genesis 1:1 to understand it correctly. Creation ex nihilo is not a necessary condition of this creation.

There is not a "before" to God. Time is part of the creation, not a property of, or restriction on, the Creator of it.

God is uncaused, He is the Creator of causation. He has no ancestor. He is the Creator ex nihilo of "all that there is" both spiritual and physical - whether universe, multi-verse, multi-world, ekpyrotic, cyclic, etc. - regardless of dimensionality.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:20

His Names, I AM, He IS (YHwH), Alpha and Omega, The Lord, The Almighty, God Almighty (El Shaddai) all reveal that Truth.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. - Revelation 1:8

He is not “a” God, but “the” God. He is not “a” Creator, but “the” Creator.

Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:9-10

That is the Christian confession. Christ is The Lord - not just "a" lord.

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. –I Corinthians 12:3

He is not God the Creator of some but of all:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. – John 1:1-4

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Colossians 1:15-20

And again,

The Tetragrammaton (YHVH) is used as a proper name of God, denoting Him as the ultimate Source of all existence, high above the universe and its laws. The Tetragrammaton is therefore interpreted to mean that God "was, is and will be," indicating that He is outside the realm of space, time and all other attributes of nature. Therefore, when the Tetragrammaton is used in relation to man, it indicates that God is acting in mercy, transcending all the rules of providence.

AISH: Writing the Torah

In appearance, Yhwh () is the third person singular imperfect "ḳal" of the verb ("to be"), meaning, therefore, "He is," or "He will be," or, perhaps, "He lives," the root idea of the word being,probably, "to blow," "to breathe," and hence, "to live." With this explanation agrees the meaning of the name given in Ex. iii. 14, where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person—"I am" (, from , the later equivalent of the archaic stem ). The meaning would, therefore, be "He who is self-existing, self-sufficient," or, more concretely, "He who lives," the abstract conception of pure existence being foreign to Hebrew thought. There is no doubt that the idea of life was intimately connected with the name Yhwh from early times. He is the living God, as contrasted with the lifeless gods of the heathen, and He is the source and author of life (comp. I Kings xviii.; Isa. xli. 26-29, xliv. 6-20; Jer. x. 10, 14; Gen. ii. 7; etc.). So familiar is this conception of God to the Hebrew mind that it appears in the common formula of an oath, "ḥai Yhwh" (= "as Yhwh lives"; Ruth iii. 13; I Sam. xiv. 45; etc.).

Jewish Encyclopedia

The bottom line is that I am completely certain of Who God IS. That is my testimony: God is not a hypothesis. He lives. His Name is I AM. I’ve known Him for a half century and counting.

When the Name of God is at issue in a debate on this forum, I simply enter my testimony. I cannot be moved to deny a Name of God even hypothetically.

Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. – Psalms 91:4

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. – Matt 10:32-33

And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place. Ye shall not do so unto the LORD your God. - Deuteronomy 12:3-4

For that reason, I decline your offer to debate creation ex nihilo. It is not open to debate in my book.

“Hallowed be thy Name.”


851 posted on 10/10/2010 9:03:50 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; MHGinTN
There is not a "before" to God. Time is part of the creation, not a property of, or restriction on, the Creator of it.

Agreed, but then you immediately step off the reservation into eisegesis. You have only the Bible to base your beliefs on. Cutting and pasting it into convenient bits doesn't make your case. You lose the context and thus the idea. Eventually, you lose your way.

You go on to make several presumptions not proclaimed in the Bible. Genesis 1:1 says what it says and nothing more.

The Midrash also states that the Torah was the blueprint used for creation. We could go round and round with Rabbinic tradition.

Genesis 1:1 reads: New Living Translation In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

The use of the word "created" is arbitrary. You could just as accurately use the word "formed", perhaps even more accurately as to the eastern mind creating order out of chaos is the greatest act of God. Here's another translation:

Young's Literal Translation In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth --

The Rabbis recognize that surmising as to what occurred prior to Gen. 1:1 is unwise. Not knowing God you then aspire to describe his attributes. This is why for Jews Christianity is such an offense. Are you familiar with the Mitzvot?

These are the Mosaic Law from the Torah. There are some 613, but the gross number doesn't matter. The first six are universal and always apply. Of those first six the first three are very familiar to Christians:

Ex. 20:2 New Living Translation "I am the LORD your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of your slavery.

#2: Exodus 20:3 English Standard Version (©2001)“You shall have no other gods before me." (Interpreted as monotheism, but that's not how the Hebrew reads)

and #3: Deuteronomy 6:4 New Living Translation (©2007) "Listen, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone. or English Standard Version (©2001) “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Again, check the Hebrew carefully and the context also. Who is the audience? We're just looking over Moses' shoulder.

852 posted on 10/10/2010 10:41:40 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
What is 'pre existence'? I ask that of you because your argument appears to be framing a void into which something will be conjectured to exist before God formed the heavens and the earth from a state of the chaotic.

When Alamo_Girl states that dimensions time and space were part of the creation, I take that implies God The Eternal Almighty pre-existed anything and everything we seek to comprehend, and certainly all the dimensions we may define.

We humans characterize the chaotic state and presume it is from such a chaos that The Creator fashions everything. We Christians would also presume that the 'thing', the state of chaos, was created by The Creator of all there is, has been, or ever shall be.

Frankly, I don't agree that there was an actual state of chaos, from The Creator's perspective.

The scriptures give us huge clues regarding a reality (which I've charqacterized as a where/when) that we presently cannot sense. It is from this 'other where/when' that the hand reached to write upon Belshazzar's wall.

Perhaps it is this 'other' where/when to which Jesus went when He arose from the burial clothes without unwrapping them or rolling away the stone fromt he tomb.

Perhaps it is back and forth with this where/when that Jesus used to appear and disappear following His resurrection. But we also have clues that He used this where/when before His crucifixion, when He 'passed through' those taking up stones to kill Him for portraying Himself as the Son of Man; when He stretched a few loaves and fishes to feed 5000; when He appeared upon the lake and upon entering the boat with the disciples, they were immediately at the shore when moments before they were in the midst of a storm and out in the lake.

And there are other clues scattered throughout the Bible (OT and NT) which give strong hint of another where/when not accessible to our senses, yet. This other where/when has spatio-temporal characterisitics thus it too is a Creation by The Creator, for The Creator God IS before ever there was anything. His name is I Am.

853 posted on 10/10/2010 11:49:28 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; ejonesie22; Tennessee Nana

Meant to ping you folks when I typed this response.


854 posted on 10/10/2010 1:45:43 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: betty boop; 1010RD; Alamo-Girl; Wallop the Cat; YHAOS; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; TXnMA; hosepipe
The expectation [of the "progressives"] is that rhetoric trumps reality, that reality must conform to the way we desire to think of it

No different than the believers who "know" the reality must conform to the way they believe it is.

855 posted on 10/10/2010 2:00:30 PM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: MHGinTN; betty boop; 1010RD; Tennessee Nana
Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!

Indeed, no thing and no one precedes God The Creator of "all that there is."

That includes spiritual and physical, space, time, energy/momentum, matter, causation, form, dimensionality, logic, etc.

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Colossians 1:15-20

God's Name is I AM, YHwH (He IS), Alpha and Omega.

856 posted on 10/10/2010 10:16:19 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: kosta50; 1010RD; Alamo-Girl; MHGinTN; TXnMA; Quix; YHAOS; Wallop the Cat; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; ...
Dear kosta, your entire thesis seems to be that there is no such thing as truth; but even if there were, it would be unknowable in principle. Therefore, all there can be is opinion. And one man's opinion is just as good as any other man's.

But if there is structure and order in the universe (and we perceive that there is), then there must be something universally "true" at the foundation of the order we perceive. Otherwise the world would be one way this instant, and something entirely different at the next instant. In short, the universe would be fundamentally chaotic. But if so, then why are things persistently the way they are, and not some other way?

Such a view requires denial of the universal order which we do perceive. Such a refusal to apperceive the obvious constitutes an "opinion" that rests on nothing but a refusal to recognize that truthful human knowledge is the product of engaging the real world by observation and experience. This is to acknowledge that there is a "givenness" to the universal system of which we are parts and participants. That givenness entails that the phenomenal universe (which we perceive to be ordered) and the human mind (which also possesses order by virtue of its capacity for logic and reasoning) can be brought into correspondence. This is the basis of all truthful knowledge. This is the basis of science.

Case in point: There are many fans of "eternal universe," "steady-state" or "boom-and-bust" cosmological models. These opinions are increasingly being undercut by physical observations of, e.g., the cosmic microwave background radiation, and the cosmic expansion, which point to a real beginning of space and time. Despite the accumulating evidence, many still cling to their preferred opinion that the universe is eternal, and/or steady-state, and/or boom-and-bust.

In effect, the holders of such views are attempting to make their own preferences the measure of what the universe is. All such views seem motivated by a deep distaste for, and desire to avoid the "origin problem," i.e., a universal beginning of space and time in a unique cosmic event. In other words, a creation event. They cling to their preferred opinion, despite the piling up of evidence that refutes it.

What is the value of an opinion (or as you put it, a "belief") that can be falsified on the basis of evidence, logic, and reason?

I'll probably have more to say about this shortly. But this will have to do for now.

Thank you so much for writing, dear kosta!

857 posted on 10/11/2010 9:09:50 AM PDT by betty boop (Seek truth and beauty together; you will never find them apart. — F. M. Cornford)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Whosoever
[ But if there is structure and order in the universe (and we perceive that there is), then there must be something universally "true" at the foundation of the order we perceive. Otherwise the world would be one way this instant, and something entirely different at the next instant. In short, the universe would be fundamentally chaotic. But if so, then why are things persistently the way they are, and not some other way?

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die....

This metaphor (and it is a metaphor..) limits humans to Gods(who walks in the garden) views of reality(bible).. Unless humans want their own views of reality.. and they did and do.. so they form groups of opinion.. with variations..

So humans invented their own Gods and there are many of them.. with views just like their own or close to their own.. To wit; Cargo cults of every size shape and function.. a panoply of Cults..

Today; what is "the Good" and "the Evil".. is germane..
The good(truth) and the evil(wrongness) has expanded its scope..
We call it science and/or religion.. or the science of opinion..

There are a million Yarns in the big city.. with Gods to back them up..
Science fiction requires the Yarn to logical, reality does not require that..

Where do "I" stand in all this drama?...
Jesus came to make literally all religion obsolete.. AND Did..
And I honor his work...

858 posted on 10/11/2010 9:43:14 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: betty boop; kosta50; 1010RD; Alamo-Girl; MHGinTN; TXnMA; Quix; YHAOS; Wallop the Cat; xzins; ...
Thanks for including me in this fascinating thread, BB.

Such a refusal to apperceive the obvious constitutes an "opinion" that rests on nothing but a refusal to recognize that truthful human knowledge is the product of engaging the real world by observation and experience.

To perceive reality as accurately as possible is ultimately a gift given by the Holy Spirit. So maybe it's not so much a "refusal" as an "inability."

But as you say, the only way we can really know if our beliefs are in accord with the truth of the universe is through experience. So when I read this article, I was surprised that Pythagoras said “The beginning is the half of the whole,” when all these years I thought my dad wrote that line. "Beginning is half done" was one of his favorite Dad-isms.

In spite of my father's plagiarism, following that maxim illustrates the truth of it. Beginning something is more than just a start. A plan has been formulated and the energy to undertake that plan propels it forward. Beginning is closing in on completion.

So in the long run our lives either prove the love of God, or they prove something else. Either men are happier, more secure, better grounded and fruitful believing we belong to the Triune Creator of heaven and earth and everything therein, or we're not. And experience shows me, we are.

859 posted on 10/11/2010 10:27:10 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; betty boop; kosta50; 1010RD; Alamo-Girl; MHGinTN; TXnMA; Quix; YHAOS; ...
Yes this is an interesting thread. I don't know/can't see the entire ping list, so if someone is left off please ping them.

To perceive reality as accurately as possible is ultimately a gift given by the Holy Spirit. So maybe it's not so much a "refusal" as an "inability."

IIRC you don't believe in free will or human will, but I postulate that the difference doesn't exist. We either turn our will to God's or not and therefore the refusal creates an inability. See:

Luke 22:42 New Living Translation (©2007) "Father, if you are willing, please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine."

Christ provides an example, a clear example as to his followers that faith is an act of will and what follows is Salvation. Belief is an action.

Pythagoras' statement, “The beginning is the half of the whole" doesn't draw the conclusion you come up with Dr.

It isn't any beginning, but "the beginning" - begin wrong and you're already halfway done. Correctness from the start is critical. Like a compass needle that is just off a degree leading us further and further into error, if we begin from a false premise the result is near inevitable.

Not knowing the Bible or refusing to believe what it says because it doesn't say what we want it to say is idolatry and eisegesis. Prophets are always sent to reset the people on the right path. See: The Bible

860 posted on 10/11/2010 11:16:24 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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