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To: betty boop; kosta50; 1010RD; Alamo-Girl; MHGinTN; TXnMA; Quix; YHAOS; Wallop the Cat; xzins; ...
Thanks for including me in this fascinating thread, BB.

Such a refusal to apperceive the obvious constitutes an "opinion" that rests on nothing but a refusal to recognize that truthful human knowledge is the product of engaging the real world by observation and experience.

To perceive reality as accurately as possible is ultimately a gift given by the Holy Spirit. So maybe it's not so much a "refusal" as an "inability."

But as you say, the only way we can really know if our beliefs are in accord with the truth of the universe is through experience. So when I read this article, I was surprised that Pythagoras said “The beginning is the half of the whole,” when all these years I thought my dad wrote that line. "Beginning is half done" was one of his favorite Dad-isms.

In spite of my father's plagiarism, following that maxim illustrates the truth of it. Beginning something is more than just a start. A plan has been formulated and the energy to undertake that plan propels it forward. Beginning is closing in on completion.

So in the long run our lives either prove the love of God, or they prove something else. Either men are happier, more secure, better grounded and fruitful believing we belong to the Triune Creator of heaven and earth and everything therein, or we're not. And experience shows me, we are.

859 posted on 10/11/2010 10:27:10 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; betty boop; kosta50; 1010RD; Alamo-Girl; MHGinTN; TXnMA; Quix; YHAOS; ...
Yes this is an interesting thread. I don't know/can't see the entire ping list, so if someone is left off please ping them.

To perceive reality as accurately as possible is ultimately a gift given by the Holy Spirit. So maybe it's not so much a "refusal" as an "inability."

IIRC you don't believe in free will or human will, but I postulate that the difference doesn't exist. We either turn our will to God's or not and therefore the refusal creates an inability. See:

Luke 22:42 New Living Translation (©2007) "Father, if you are willing, please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine."

Christ provides an example, a clear example as to his followers that faith is an act of will and what follows is Salvation. Belief is an action.

Pythagoras' statement, “The beginning is the half of the whole" doesn't draw the conclusion you come up with Dr.

It isn't any beginning, but "the beginning" - begin wrong and you're already halfway done. Correctness from the start is critical. Like a compass needle that is just off a degree leading us further and further into error, if we begin from a false premise the result is near inevitable.

Not knowing the Bible or refusing to believe what it says because it doesn't say what we want it to say is idolatry and eisegesis. Prophets are always sent to reset the people on the right path. See: The Bible

860 posted on 10/11/2010 11:16:24 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; kosta50; 1010RD; MHGinTN; TXnMA; Quix; YHAOS; Wallop the Cat; xzins
Beginning something is more than just a start. A plan has been formulated and the energy to undertake that plan propels it forward. Beginning is closing in on completion.

Oh so beautifully, beautifully said, Dr. Eckleburg!

You and I, your Dad, and Pythagoras all evidently "see eye to eye" on this — "The beginning is the half of the whole" — in just the sense you give in the above italics. :^)

The Logos is Alpha and Omega, the Beginning (first cause) and the End (final cause). And everything in between (i.e., immanent cause, a/k/a "guide to the system").

You wrote, "To perceive reality as accurately as possible is ultimately a gift given by the Holy Spirit. So maybe it's not so much a "refusal" as an "inability.""

Inability, perhaps. But increasingly nowadays, willful refusal cannot be ruled out. One can "close one's soul" to the Holy Spirit by means of an act of will. The ideologues of mechanistic, deterministic, materialistic universe theory have no "use" for the Holy Spirit. For God; or even for souls. They cannot even account for minds. So all of these things are simply denied. (E.g., mind is merely an epiphenomenon of the physical brain that of itself can cause nothing to happen in the phenomenal world. Anyone with eyes can see that this is fantastically untrue!)

Anything that can't be directly observed and measured doesn't exist for them.

Notwithstanding, I so agree with what you wrote here:

So in the long run our lives either prove the love of God, or they prove something else. Either men are happier, more secure, better grounded and fruitful believing we belong to the Triune Creator of heaven and earth and everything therein, or we're not. And experience shows me, we are.

Thank you so very much for your outstanding essay/post!
865 posted on 10/11/2010 12:19:57 PM PDT by betty boop (Seek truth and beauty together; you will never find them apart. — F. M. Cornford)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Beginning something is more than just a start. A plan has been formulated and the energy to undertake that plan propels it forward. Beginning is closing in on completion.

Thank you so very much for sharing your testimony, dear sister in Christ!

884 posted on 10/12/2010 8:31:00 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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